[Hungary] Armed forces

[Ultra84]

Originally Posted by tersyxus

"...Kiemelte például az amerikai pilótákkal és F-15-ös vadászgépekkel közösen végrehajtott gyakorlat, melyen a "papíron" jobb amerikai gépekkel "döntetlenre" hozták a Gripenek a versengést..."

Nem vagyok, egy nagy harcászati szakértő (bár 10 éve még rendszeresen vásároltam a TopGun című lapot), de az F-15-ösök jobbak lennének "papíron", vagy akárhol máshol a Gripeneknél?Az F-15-ösök már 76 óta szolgálatban vannak (32 éves konstrukció), míg a Gripenek csak 96 óta. Ez ugye 20 év különbség a Gripenek javára. Valaki aki jobban ért hozzá megtudná magyarázni? Ennyit lehet javítani egy vadászgépen "elektronikai tunningal"?

[AlbertZ]

Én csak a műszaki adatokra tudok neked hivatkozni: 20 év ide vagy oda, a Gripen ma egy olcsó gépnek számít szerintem. Az F15-ös valóban elég régi, de ha 5 féle altípusa nincs, akkor egy se. Manőverezésben, végsebességben sokkal jobb, mint a Gripen. Egyébként szerintem adott esetben nem ilyesmi döntene, hanem a felfegyverzettség.

Egyébként én sem értek hozzá.

[Qtya]

F-15K Slam Eagle asszem a legújabb verzió. A Strike Eagle ellen egy Gripennek nem sok esélye van. Mondjuk az amerikai gép nem ok nélkül tartozik az air superiority aircraft-ok táborába... A Gripen erről csak álmodozhat... A Gripen az F-16, Eurofighter, Rafael, JSF kategóriájába tartozik, míg az F-15 közvetlen utódja az F-22, ami ugyebár a világ legjobb katonai repülőgépe. Mai napig az F-15ös az amerikai hadsereg legkedveltebb típusa, amely rendkívül erős és strapabíró. Azonos pilótával 100ból 100szor győzne az F-15ös a Gripen ellen.

De aki a legjobban el tudná ezt mondani az Cosmin...

[Ultra84]

Köszönöm a kimerítő választ!

[MagyarGyerek]

so I am really interested in the Hungarian army (but really have 0 clue about it), and was wondering how strong it is, compared to the other EE (or CE) countries ?

[Sieg]

Originally Posted by MagyarGyerek

so I am really interested in the Hungarian army (but really have 0 clue about it), and was wondering how strong it is, compared to the other EE (or CE) countries ?

It is WEAK. Very weak (approx. 15000 people, not really well equipped with heavy weaponry, weak air force etc.). It's the same everywhere in CE (by which I mean the new EU members) so I don't really think a comparison is worth here. As for the 'real' EE like Ukraine and Russia - well, we would face some really big trouble if they attacked us
Fortunately we don't live in a time where war is really an option so I think we have better ways than the army to spend our money.

[RawLee]

Actually,the active men power is 25000,it was raised with 1000 last year. Apart from that,our military is modern,as we didnt have a huge soviet-style army in the previous regime,so it was cheaper to build a modern army. The old MIG's arent "old",they were given to us for basically free as part of the russian debt.
http://vg.hu/index.php?apps=cikk&cikk=178708&fr=hk
The old tanks were given to Iraq for free,so we already got rid of the bulk of the outdated weaponry. Tanks are useless anyway in our age.

[Sieg]

You seem to be better informed than I am, so please clarify something to me
What is the situation with our tanks? A few years ago, when I was really into military stuff, we had the T-55AM tanks, which were old T-55s modernized by the Hungarian army, and the T-72s which were somewhat newer. ALL of them were given away, so we really don't have tanks anymore? I know that since the advent of helicopter warfare they are not the same as before but they are still useful in - god forbid - riots, missions against less armed enemy forces and all sorts of other operations. No wonder the American army still has them. So it would be really weird of the Hungarian army - which is not that small after all - didn't have a single one of them left.

[Qtya]

Originally Posted by RawLee

The old tanks were given to Iraq for free,so we already got rid of the bulk of the outdated weaponry. Tanks are useless anyway in our age.

Where did you get this info RawLee?!?!?! Sorry to say this, but this is a complete BS!

Till today tanks give the best and most efficient support for ground troops in front-line combat, beside the US A-10 of course... Not to mention the new variants (Tanks like the Leopard 2 PSO (Peace Support Operations)) designed specially for urban warfare which peacekeeping operations have encountered more and more... Or I could mention the main battle-tank, and pride of the IDF (Israel Defense Force) the mighty Merkava IV. This modern tank could be used as a platform for medical disembarkation, a forward command and control station, and an armored personnel carrier if needed. If properly deployed, a new, modern tank can provide its crew and the supported troops with better protection than any time in the past before. This is why armies keep modernizing their existing ones and buying newer and newer kinds.

Greece, Sweeden, Germany, France, Romania, Russia, China, India, Australia, Turkey, Pakistan, US, Poland, RSA, KSA, UAE, and so on are all aware of this... Except naturally our country...

[Qtya]

Originally Posted by Sieg

So it would be really weird of the Hungarian army - which is not that small after all - didn't have a single one of them left.

Noop, we don't have... AFAIK when on the 1st March 2007. the MH 11. Mátyás Hunyadi Tank battalion was dismissed, our last T-72s where retired. Since that day, both of our armored brigades became: HDF 5th ‘István Bocskai’ Infantry Brigade, HDF 25th ’György Klapka’ Infantry Brigade and they operate with light BTR 80-s, BTR 80A-s...

[Qtya]

Originally Posted by Qtya

Noop, we don't have... AFAIK when on the 1st March 2007. the MH 11. Mátyás Hunyadi Tank battalion was dismissed, our last T-72s where retired. Since that day, both of our armored brigades became: HDF 5th ‘István Bocskai’ Infantry Brigade, HDF 25th ’György Klapka’ Infantry Brigade and they operate with light BTR 80-s, BTR 80A-s...

[venom6]

Yes its true that we gave 72 pcs of our T-72 tanks to the Iraqi defense forces. The tanks were modernized and painted to the typical desert color. The works were made by Hungary so after they were pimped they were transported.


Our T-72 tanks in new color with new flags

We have a lot of tanks in Hungary (T-55, T-72 mostly) but only a few ones are in service what can be used if it has to. Most of the other tanks are stored somewhere and they are conservated, what means they are in a deep sleep.
In other words it has no fuel or electrical sources inside. So it would take a couple hours to wake these tanks up, after that they all would be operationable.

Its also a different thing that all these tanks should be sell out and get new ones. There are many MBT tanks in this days wich are very good. For example the T-90 or the Leopard 2. If once Hungary will decide to get new tanks the final results will depend on money.
Our politicians are NOT corrupt

Main Battle Tanks of the world:

M1A1 Abrams - USA
T-90 - Russia
Merkava Mk4 - Israel
Challenger 2 - UK
Aeriete - Italy
Leclerc - France
Leopard 2A6 - Germany

[tersyxus]

Originally Posted by venom6

Our T-72 tanks in new color with new flags

This whole thing smells like in the 70s when we transported our old Migs to Egypt and Syria. It would be "uplifting" if these tanks were got hold of by some Iraqi anti-western military groups within some decades and we'd have to fight against our own weaponry in the Middle East. US was similarly fool in the 80s giving high quality weapons to Afghanistan resistance troops...

It was damn worth the money to repair and sell these tanks.

[Qtya]

Thanks God these T-72 are long nothing like: "high quality weapons"

[tersyxus]

Yeah but they can be upgraded and packed with modern military utilities making them far more powerful, aren't they?

[Qtya]

Originally Posted by tersyxus

Yeah but they can be upgraded and packed with modern military utilities making them far more powerful, aren't they?

Yes, and no. These tanks can't be upgraded to be an equal rival to the Abrams or the Leopard2...

[venom6]

Originally Posted by Qtya

Yes, and no. These tanks can't be upgraded to be an equal rival to the Abrams or the Leopard2...

Thats true that a T-72 cant reach the level of an Abrams, Leopard2, Challenger2 or T-90....BUT it can be filled up with all kind of "trendy" electronical stuff.
And hey a T-34 is still a good tank just as the T-55. Too much electricity in a tank is not allways good. Did you guys know that the crazy english got water boiler in the Challenger 2 for their tea time

My vote goes for the Leopard2 or the T-90...but if we got too heavy israeli influence we may get Merkava tanks. They are also good tbh...

[Mr Potatohead]

Originally Posted by venom6

Thats true that a T-72 cant reach the level of an Abrams, Leopard2, Challenger2 or T-90....BUT it can be filled up with all kind of "trendy" electronical stuff.
And hey a T-34 is still a good tank just as the T-55. Too much electricity in a tank is not allways good. Did you guys know that the crazy english got water boiler in the Challenger 2 for their tea time

My vote goes for the Leopard2 or the T-90...but if we got too heavy israeli influence we may get Merkava tanks. They are also good tbh...

There's nothing like a nice mug of tea to keep you going. The British army is one of the best because of tea!

[venom6]

Originally Posted by Mr Potatohead

There's nothing like a nice mug of tea to keep you going. The British army is one of the best because of tea!

I can imagine how the SAS is drinking a warm tea in the helicopter before jumping out into action

[Cosmin]

Originally Posted by venom6

Abrams, Leopard2, Challenger2 or T-90
[...]
Merkava

You forgot Leclerc, MBT of France and UAE!