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Old April 1st, 2015, 10:23 AM   #521
The seventh shape
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The Bank of Communications Tower near this one is a beauty. There's a taller tower with almost the exact same design planned for Chongqing. This is also a very sleek tower, one of Shenzhen's better ones.
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Old April 28th, 2015, 12:04 PM   #522
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More than 300 supertall projects on going in China.
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Old April 28th, 2015, 11:29 PM   #523
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this type of cladding with the windows seems very prominant in shenzhen. i'm not the biggest fan tbh
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Old April 29th, 2015, 01:26 AM   #524
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As far as I know these are no windows. They are just left open until the air conditioning works.
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Old May 5th, 2015, 07:46 PM   #525
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one pic of hon kwok beside pingan...
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Old May 6th, 2015, 02:58 AM   #526
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Great project, but could have a better upstairs
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Old May 9th, 2015, 05:47 AM   #527
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this type of cladding with the windows seems very prominant in shenzhen. i'm not the biggest fan tbh
This is good design, openable windows reduces energy consumption.

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As far as I know these are no windows. They are just left open until the air conditioning works.
They will always be openable.
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Old May 9th, 2015, 06:17 PM   #528
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Old May 9th, 2015, 06:40 PM   #529
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Quote:
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This is good design, openable windows reduces energy consumption.
Nope.

It's not possible to recover heat (or well, cold) from air that goes through the windows. This can be done with a heat exchanger in a ventilation system, but sending the air through the windows will just waste the energy invested in heating (or cooling) the indoor air to the desired temperature.
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Old May 9th, 2015, 07:31 PM   #530
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In other words, air conditioning does not work as designed if windows are left open.
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Old May 10th, 2015, 01:09 AM   #531
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Nope.

It's not possible to recover heat (or well, cold) from air that goes through the windows. This can be done with a heat exchanger in a ventilation system, but sending the air through the windows will just waste the energy invested in heating (or cooling) the indoor air to the desired temperature.
Nope, mechanical engineers just want to dump generic OTS HVAC systems that assume a sealed building. My Building Science class regards office buildings with properly managed operable windows a better system. You assume a generic HVAC system is put in but what is actually put in is an HVAC system that is designed to work with operable windows.

In fact operable windows contributes to LEED green building credits and is more energy efficient especially for places with warmer weather.

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As far as I know these are no windows. They are just left open until the air conditioning works.
So you are telling me that half of the buildings in Futian CBD have broken AC? No they are saving energy by opening they windows and letting the wind blowing +100m above the ground to help passively cool all the people and computers inside. In addition they naturally improve IAQ. All this is done without using a mechanical system that uses up energy when the when conditions are right. Again more commonly found in less seasonal warmer climates. eg:

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Old May 10th, 2015, 01:13 AM   #532
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Normally they should not be openable. We've seen these "open" windows on countless construction sites and they were always closed as they came closer to completion. If there's buildings where you can actually open the windows then it's as Kyll.Ing. said, a huge waste of energy.
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Old May 10th, 2015, 01:38 AM   #533
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Normally they should not be openable. We've seen these "open" windows on countless construction sites and they were always closed as they came closer to completion. If there's buildings where you can actually open the windows then it's as Kyll.Ing. said, a huge waste of energy.

Yes that is exactly it. Shenzhen is a "huge waste of energy". There is no rigid "right" way to build a building. Just numerous schools of thought with advantages and disadvantages.

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Old May 10th, 2015, 04:51 AM   #534
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So you had to clog this page with numerous pictures just for the sake of bashing me...?
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Old May 10th, 2015, 10:00 AM   #535
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He doesn't bash you.

He settles a disagreement with strong arguments. Respectfully.
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Old May 10th, 2015, 11:34 AM   #536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saiho View Post
Nope, mechanical engineers just want to dump generic OTS HVAC systems that assume a sealed building. My Building Science class regards office buildings with properly managed operable windows a better system. You assume a generic HVAC system is put in but what is actually put in is an HVAC system that is designed to work with operable windows.

In fact operable windows contributes to LEED green building credits and is more energy efficient especially for places with warmer weather.
I've had Building Science classes too, and now that I understand what you're talking about, I can sort of see where you're coming from.

The thing with so-called "natural ventilation", which relies on wind and buoyancy to move air around, is, well, that it is dependant on wind and buoyancy to work. It can perform very well if the building is designed for it, but you can't just open any window in any building and substitute the HVAC system just like that. You need to design the building around the concept, to utilize whatever gains you can get "for free". If the building is built around a mechanical ventilation system, and then somebody gets the "bright" idea to open the windows instead, the building will waste energy. But if the openable windows (or panels, depending if they have any function beyond letting in air) are integrated in the building's design from the start, you can save energy.

In short, for openable windows to save energy, that has to have been the plan all along.
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Old May 10th, 2015, 05:16 PM   #537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyll.Ing. View Post
It can perform very well if the building is designed for it, but you can't just open any window in any building and substitute the HVAC system just like that. You need to design the building around the concept, to utilize whatever gains you can get "for free". If the building is built around a mechanical ventilation system, and then somebody gets the "bright" idea to open the windows instead, the building will waste energy. But if the openable windows (or panels, depending if they have any function beyond letting in air) are integrated in the building's design from the start, you can save energy.

In short, for openable windows to save energy, that has to have been the plan all along.
Yes but all the buildings with the operable windows in Shenzhen is recent new construction and have been designed with these principles in mind from the start like Hon Kwok. Of course like I have said if properly managed it is extremely effective.
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Old May 17th, 2015, 11:22 AM   #538
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14.05.2015
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Old May 17th, 2015, 12:45 PM   #539
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What height do you guys think this baby is at?

It's funny how Hon Kwok was basically half built when China Chenung Tower in Nanshan district broke ground, and yet Chenung is already topped out at a supposed 333m height. By contrast Hon Kwok has risen like 100m per year.. Is there some engineering reason for this pace?
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Old May 17th, 2015, 12:54 PM   #540
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Is there some engineering reason for this pace?
Probably money.
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