daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Development News Forums > Supertalls > Proposed Supertalls



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old November 22nd, 2010, 08:38 PM   #321
AUTOTHRILL
chill
 
AUTOTHRILL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: London | Liverpool
Posts: 4,712
Likes (Received): 1948

So, because Paris can build buildings taller than london it has a better skyline? Let's be honest here currently Canary Wharf looks better than La Defense- it's really a fact. These towers will change that however. What we have to remember is La Defense (am I right?) is the only place Parisian authorities Like skyscrapers, and even this one had to 'lie' to attain it's current height-While the shard is london's peak, I reckon this could well be paris's. And this is just one cluster, London has the city, candy wharf, and the area around shard, to mention a few.

Sorry for the rant, it's brilliant that people recognise London + Paris as contenders fir best skyline, I just don't like it when people like RichW1 say 'oh I concede, best skyline, London has no answer' haven't our two nations been rivals for centuries? There will be answer in 10-20 years trust me! When the worlds largest financial centre runs out if office space, there will be an answer!

Maybe it's my dented English pride. Hate to compare unfinished products, but compared to the shard these skyscrapers are very unique. Any like them in the world? Font think I've seen any!
__________________
I hate this username
AUTOTHRILL no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old November 22nd, 2010, 08:44 PM   #322
Matthieu
Administrateur
 
Matthieu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Tarbes, the capital of the world
Posts: 15,216
Likes (Received): 5616

Quote:
Let's be honest here currently Canary Wharf looks better than La Defense- it's really a fact
No it's not, and that very statement is a fact.

Quote:
Sorry for the rant, it's brilliant that people recognise London + Paris as contenders fir best skyline
None can compete for the best skyline status, they're European cities which means here they both stink when it comes to skyscrapers but both residents like to believe they're world classes. Actually, they compete for the least miserable skylines. For real ones check New York, Hong Kong, Shanghai or Chicago or pretty much anywhere in Mideast, Eastasia or North America.
__________________
"To erect a tall building is to proclaim one’s faith in the future, the skyline is a seismograph of optimism."
Jean Nouvel
Matthieu no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 22nd, 2010, 08:59 PM   #323
AUTOTHRILL
chill
 
AUTOTHRILL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: London | Liverpool
Posts: 4,712
Likes (Received): 1948

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


Fair enough, it's a matter of taste. Both good, sorry to derail the thread. Just think canary Wharf has a better setting/ height distribution, la Defense towers look like they've hit a ceiling. But congratulation Paris for such beatiful towers
__________________
I hate this username
AUTOTHRILL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 22nd, 2010, 09:01 PM   #324
Matthieu
Administrateur
 
Matthieu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Tarbes, the capital of the world
Posts: 15,216
Likes (Received): 5616

That picture of La Défense is outdated, for the information. I can name at least 2 +150m towers missing (T1 and Granite) and new AXA +200m is missing too.
__________________
"To erect a tall building is to proclaim one’s faith in the future, the skyline is a seismograph of optimism."
Jean Nouvel
Matthieu no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 22nd, 2010, 09:04 PM   #325
Luli Pop
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,530
Likes (Received): 40

Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
And never Japanese or Chinese.

We should have a list of Francophobic forumers somewhere. That would make recognition easier.
no just fracophobic but also monolingual...
Luli Pop no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 22nd, 2010, 09:15 PM   #326
AUTOTHRILL
chill
 
AUTOTHRILL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: London | Liverpool
Posts: 4,712
Likes (Received): 1948

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthieu View Post
That picture of La Défense is outdated, for the information. I can name at least 2 +150m towers missing (T1 and Granite) and new AXA +200m is missing too.
I was just trying to portray a rough idea- but I suppose you are right. In terms of high skyscrapers (which seems to be what half the members of this site care about most) Paris and London just are not world class. La Denfense is IMO a little stumpy, and some of the towers look cheap. Canary wharf is not dense enough, but when fully developed should be a lot better, same goes with La Defense- perhaps a comparison is fair in 10 years, La Defense is after all a lot older than Canary Wharf right?

Edit: lol, I did mean best in Europe btw. I know when in comes to NY, Dubai, Guangzou and Chicago, London/Paris can't compete. The only way we can compete is by building unique. A group of 200m interesting shapes may be preferable to a sky mass of 300-500M buildings for some people.
__________________
I hate this username

Last edited by AUTOTHRILL; November 22nd, 2010 at 09:20 PM.
AUTOTHRILL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 22nd, 2010, 09:24 PM   #327
Matthieu
Administrateur
 
Matthieu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Tarbes, the capital of the world
Posts: 15,216
Likes (Received): 5616

La Denfense is IMO a little stumpy, and some of the towers look cheap.

Now that's a personal opinion, that's better .

In Europe, I think Moscow is the most ambitious, and today Frankfurt has the second place but may be overtaken by London and Paris. How many projects will be completed will make the difference.
__________________
"To erect a tall building is to proclaim one’s faith in the future, the skyline is a seismograph of optimism."
Jean Nouvel
Matthieu no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 22nd, 2010, 09:36 PM   #328
AUTOTHRILL
chill
 
AUTOTHRILL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: London | Liverpool
Posts: 4,712
Likes (Received): 1948

Yeah, I really like the classy shapes in the IBC. Serves a purpose, as well as being interesting to look at! I just hopes the Mercury City tower turns out well- hate for Europe's tallest to be an ugly bug.
__________________
I hate this username
AUTOTHRILL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 22nd, 2010, 09:41 PM   #329
djm160190
Registered User
 
djm160190's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: London, Paris
Posts: 570
Likes (Received): 763

I think these twins look great but they are definitely in the wrong location in La Defense. I think they would look better further towards the 'back' (as viewed from arc de triomphe) or either side of the main axis road, creating a gateway effect. Classy buildings though!
djm160190 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 22nd, 2010, 10:02 PM   #330
Matthieu
Administrateur
 
Matthieu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Tarbes, the capital of the world
Posts: 15,216
Likes (Received): 5616

Quote:
Originally Posted by djm160190 View Post
I think these twins look great but they are definitely in the wrong location in La Defense. I think they would look better further towards the 'back' (as viewed from arc de triomphe) or either side of the main axis road, creating a gateway effect. Classy buildings though!
I agree they'll kind of "crush" the surrounding buildings, but then so the World Trade Center used to do back in the days.
__________________
"To erect a tall building is to proclaim one’s faith in the future, the skyline is a seismograph of optimism."
Jean Nouvel
Matthieu no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 22nd, 2010, 10:10 PM   #331
charpentier
Registered User
 
charpentier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lille
Posts: 6,635
Likes (Received): 29808

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axelferis View Post
what it is disapointing with those towers it's their location!

It brokes the equilibrium from the historical perspective caroussel du louvre-Concorde place-Arc de triomphe-L'arche de la defense

the tallest are on right ! who are the stupid guys who made such a schema?!!
New towers will be built "on the left", but first the boulevard circulaire sud must be remade (2015), and they could be even taller since there are no height restrictions in front of the Seine. A new plan may be announced for this area next year, so be patient.
charpentier no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 22nd, 2010, 10:22 PM   #332
Axelferis
Registered User
 
Axelferis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: A space between two worlds
Posts: 11,150
Likes (Received): 2209

@ Autothrill-> even if i'm a huge fan of canary wharf please show actual pics of la defense skyline and not this old you show here!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuprêmeOM View Post
image hosted on flickr






image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr
Paris CAN compete with all new projetcs for THE european BEST skyline!
__________________
W.A.O blog
Axelferis no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 22nd, 2010, 10:51 PM   #333
Jeanbonnau
BANNED
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 395
Likes (Received): 8

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthieu View Post
I agree they'll kind of "crush" the surrounding buildings, but then so the World Trade Center used to do back in the days.
Ah ça, je ne suis pas d'accord. Dès que l'on construit un bâtiment plus haut que les autres naturellement, il les domine ou leur fait de l'ombre : c'est inévitable. Le fait que les jumelles soient au bord de la Seine les dégage un peu du reste de La Défense ou au moins les met en périphérie du coeur de La Défense, ce qui a pour effet, me semble-t-il de moins "écraser" les autres gratte-ciel. Par ailleurs la forme générale de ces deux nouvelles tours leur donne une légèreté qui les insère assez finement, somme toute, dans le panorama du quartier.

En revanche on pourrait dire que ces deux géantes vont abîmer la symétrie, certes relative, de La Défense, vue depuis l'Arc de Triomphe. A mon avis ces deux tours en appellent deux ou trois autres, à gauche de l'Arche, sûrement tout à fait différentes mais le nez également dans les nuages...

En tout cas c'est une bonne idée de ne pas construire de tour géante dans Paris même, mais juste autour. Il ne reste plus qu'à détruire l'affreuse tour Montparnasse, soit pour la remplacer par quelque chose d'extraordinaire soit pour faire quelque chose d'équivalent tout juste de l'autre côté du périphérique.

Et pour nos amis d'Angleterre ou d'ailleurs :

Ah, I do not agree. Once you build a building higher than others of course, he dominates or overshadows: it's inevitable. The fact that the twins are on the edge of the Seine off a bit from the rest of La Defense or at least puts them on the periphery of the heart of La Defense, which has the effect, I think it less "crush" other skyscrapers. Moreover, the general shape of these two new towers gives them a lightness that inserts them finely enough, after all, in the panorama of the neighborhood.

On the other hand one could say that these two giants will spoil the symmetry, although relative, La Defense, view from the Arc de Triomphe. In my opinion, these two towers are calling two or three others, left the Ark, probably quite different but also the nose in the clouds ...

In any case it's a good idea not to build a giant tower in Paris itself, but just around. It remains only to destroy the ugly Tour Montparnasse, is to replace it with something extraordinary to be something similar just the other side of the device. (périphérique)

"The device" c'est comme ça que google traduction traduit "périphérique" ! C'est amusant. Mais je suis quand même très impressionné par la performance de google traduction du français vers l'anglais.
Jeanbonnau no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 22nd, 2010, 11:41 PM   #334
AUTOTHRILL
chill
 
AUTOTHRILL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: London | Liverpool
Posts: 4,712
Likes (Received): 1948

Fair enough Axelferis

Sorry my render was so outdated: the canary wharf render is pretty old too
__________________
I hate this username
AUTOTHRILL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 23rd, 2010, 12:04 AM   #335
[email protected]
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Paris
Posts: 660
Likes (Received): 62

Quote:
Originally Posted by djm160190 View Post
I think these twins look great but they are definitely in the wrong location in La Defense. I think they would look better further towards the 'back' (as viewed from arc de triomphe) or either side of the main axis road, creating a gateway effect.
That would be too much IMO. La Défense has already quite symmetric viewed from the main axis.
M@rtoc no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 23rd, 2010, 12:26 AM   #336
charpentier
Registered User
 
charpentier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lille
Posts: 6,635
Likes (Received): 29808

And you are quite right [email protected], two similar towers on each side of the axis and the Arche in the background could look like rugby posts with their crossbar.
charpentier no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 23rd, 2010, 12:28 AM   #337
Cyril
Particle XLR8R
 
Cyril's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 17,809
Likes (Received): 4219

Two XXL computer rendered pictures:

http://www.archiportale.com/immagini...di/17528_1.jpg
http://www.archiportale.com/immagini...di/17528_2.jpg

Source: > http://www.archiportale.com/
__________________
J'en ai marre de lire "Les riverains sont inquiets..."
Cyril no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 23rd, 2010, 12:53 AM   #338
RichW1
In Pursuit Of The Future
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: London
Posts: 176
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by AUTOTHRILL View Post
Fair enough Axelferis

Sorry my render was so outdated: the canary wharf render is pretty old too
Hey Autothrill, you have to say La Defense does beat us over here in London from those latest pics no? I'm not revelling it this; quite the opposite actually. You are right though, Docklands is nowhere near as old and we did come VERY late to the highrise game in London. So there's time yet to 'densify' as you suggest.

It is only my personal opinion that I wish london could achieve just 1 building taller than the Shard in the future so the stepping effect will look better 50 years down the line but as we both know that can't happen!
RichW1 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 23rd, 2010, 01:06 AM   #339
Newcastle Guy
Registered User
 
Newcastle Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 9,096
Likes (Received): 317

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichW1 View Post
Hey Autothrill, you have to say La Defense does beat us over here in London from those latest pics no? I'm not revelling it this; quite the opposite actually. You are right though, Docklands is nowhere near as old and we did come VERY late to the highrise game in London. So there's time yet to 'densify' as you suggest.

It is only my personal opinion that I wish london could achieve just 1 building taller than the Shard in the future so the stepping effect will look better 50 years down the line but as we both know that can't happen!
The Shard isn't even complete yet, let's enjoy it for a little bit before we move on to the 'next big thing'...

And height limits change. At some point in the future, providing London remains one of the world's premiere financial centers, there will be taller buildings built. I expect the Hermitage Towers will act as a cap for the Paris skyline for a good while, but in vibrant capital cities like London and Paris, things eventually change, it's just how it goes.
Newcastle Guy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 23rd, 2010, 02:20 AM   #340
chjbolton
chjbolton
 
chjbolton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Los Angeles, London, Paris, Munich
Posts: 796
Likes (Received): 75

Ok, first of all, after visiting this forum for a few years now, I want to say it's nice to see a healthy respectful debate about the London/Paris skylines. Thanks for keeping it civil and rational.

If London had gathered all of its towers within one given area like Paris has (a few others exist elsewhere but let's not be picky here), London would likely win the 'best' or at least densest skyline award. It has more towers. Period.

Now, as a French Londoner, although I love La Defense, its lack of balance between the South and North parts does my head in; I mean... What's the point of keeping the damn historical axis only to not respect what it should 'naturally' be?! (a modern glassy 'jardin à la française').
The city is a mess but the news towers will really create a nice 'pyramidal order'. As for Canary Wharf, given it's location and the great viewpoint it offer, it could be set to become THE European skyline but... The damn airport will ruin it. And for those bitching about the Hermitage twins blocking the view of LD, wait till Riverside South is complete

If LD's southern part develops in the future and a decent symmetry is achieved, I think it has very good chances to keep/steal/earn the best EU skyline title.
London's skyline is scattered now and though it may bulk up in several areas, it will never densify as a single block the way LD has and will continue to do.

At the end of the day, it is and will always stay a matter of taste:
Density+symmetry VS. multitude+pyramidal order.

I rest my case.


PS: another debate could also be > which one is the 'most human', the 'liveliest'? LD or CW/the City?
The City wins hands down in my opinion.
__________________
B O L T O N
chjbolton no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
la défense, paris, paris skyscrapers

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu