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Old November 23rd, 2010, 04:10 AM   #341
brisavoine
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Originally Posted by Newcastle Guy View Post
I expect the Hermitage Towers will act as a cap for the Paris skyline for a good while
There is no legal height limit on the banks of the Seine at La Défense. The height limits exist only further uphill. So any developer can build a tower of any height along the Seine.

I expect that the Hermitage Towers, if they are a commercial success, will unbridle the developers in Paris, not only French developers, but also probably Arab and Chinese developers wishing to emulate the Russian developer of Hermitage In fact it's quite surprising that Hermitage was proposed by a Russian developer and not an Arab developer, given the big interest of the Gulf Arabs in Paris (I can't count the cars with licence plates in the Gulf parked around the Champs-Elysées these days).
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 05:04 AM   #342
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If London had gathered all of its towers within one given area like Paris has (a few others exist elsewhere but let's not be picky here), London would likely win the 'best' or at least densest skyline award. It has more towers. Period.
That's simply not true. Paris has 14 150m+ skyscrapers already built, plus 1 more under construction, 4 more with a building permit already issued and due to start construction soon, 3 more awaiting their building permit, and 2 more in pre-planning. In the worst case scenario, there will be 17 150m+ skyscrapers in Paris by the mid 2010s (the current 14 + 3 that are dead certain to be built), and hopefully, if all of them are built, there will be 24 150m+ skyscrapers in the late 2010s.

In comparison, according to Skyscraperpage, London has only 11 150m+ skyscrapers already built, with 4 more under construction, and 7 more proposed. So in the worst case scenario, there should be 15 150m+ skyscrapers in London by the mid-2010s (vs. 17 in Paris's worst case scenario).

And of course, the 150-meter limit is quite artificial when talking of skyline density. If the limit is lowered to 125 meters, then it adds 9 towers already built in Paris (+ 1 due to start construction soon), whereas it adds 5 towers already built in London. In other words, there are 23 125m+ towers already built in Paris (+ 1 u/c) vs. 16 125m+ towers in London (+ 4 u/c).

None of these figures include telecom towers such as the Eiffel Tower or BT Tower.
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PS: another debate could also be > which one is the 'most human', the 'liveliest'? LD or CW/the City?
The City wins hands down in my opinion.
The Central Business District of Paris (the area from Champs-Elysées to Opéra to Bourse and Louvre) wins hands down in my opinion.
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 02:21 PM   #343
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Don't forget a thing: if you move from the historical to the sides east or west, this problem disapear and la defense seems to be very well balanced...
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 03:28 PM   #344
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If you want to compare CW and LD current and Future:

Current LD:

(most recent pic i could find)

Future LD:


Current CW:



Future CW:




and whilst looking for the pics this one popped up, ghow cool is this pic:
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 04:39 PM   #345
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What i apreciate with canary warth is its simply skyline. It has not this futuristic aspect we can see in dubai or asia but this non riskly skyline that exists in business district of small or medium american towns. And brung to a european city it works quite well.
This photo could has been made in 1980 in a city like houston and we couldn't see a difference.
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 05:14 PM   #346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrHo View Post
If you want to compare CW and LD current and Future:

Current LD:

(most recent pic i could find)
Still wrong though
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 05:58 PM   #347
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there was a more recent one but it was huge and would have been rather too large for a forum, just out of curiosity whats missing?
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 06:19 PM   #348
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There, for you (picture taken last September):

[img]http://i54.************/2eph7ye.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i56.************/29vi06c.jpg[/img]
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 07:40 PM   #349
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Well for the last time:


















with generali tower and the future:










Obviouly the last ones summarize all projects without Hermittage ! imgine it with the twin towers
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Last edited by Axelferis; November 23rd, 2010 at 08:04 PM.
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 10:09 PM   #350
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No offend to the Persians, i do not find La De'fense beautiful to be honest. This cluster looks even more like Dubai or some Chinese cities. Basically, what i am trying to say is that none of this skyscraper is iconic in our vision. For example, when you see Empire State building you automatically know that it is New York, and the same thing when you see the Gherkin building you know that is London. Architects in Paris should focus more in iconic designs and quality rather than heights and quantity. Another fact is that La De'fense is lack of big pond, river or sea around it, unlike Manhattan, Chicago, Sydney, San Francisco, Singapore or Hong Kong etc. The only thing that inspires me is Eiffel Tower, it is not only marvellous, also iconic structure for both Paris and France.


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Old November 23rd, 2010, 10:34 PM   #351
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Not river??? you don't know what you are talking about





But i agree with you on the iconic point! it's a shame since 1889 and eiffel tower construction, architect never thought to build a french iconic skyscrapper! it's a shame

Generali tower is the most iconic imo
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 10:54 PM   #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajaaronjoe View Post
No offend to the Persians, i do not find La De'fense beautiful to be honest. This cluster looks even more like Dubai or some Chinese cities. Basically, what i am trying to say is that none of this skyscraper is iconic in our vision. For example, when you see Empire State building you automatically know that it is New York, and the same thing when you see the Gherkin building you know that is London. Architects in Paris should focus more in iconic designs and quality rather than heights and quantity. Another fact is that La De'fense is lack of big pond, river or sea around it, unlike Manhattan, Chicago, Sydney, San Francisco, Singapore or Hong Kong etc. The only thing that inspires me is Eiffel Tower, it is not only marvellous, also iconic structure for both Paris and France.

What about Le grande arche? Isn't that iconic enough?

I live in another continet and many people I know are able to tell that it is Paris when they see a picture of Le grande arche.
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 11:42 PM   #353
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he was talking about tall buildings
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Old November 24th, 2010, 01:06 AM   #354
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La Defense is without a doubt the densest cluster, I think Canary Wharf looks better because it just seems... neater. London's skyline is more fractured, but it gives the benefit of putting all the blocky towers together (Canary Wharf) and the quirkier and more iconic towers together (The City), whereas is Paris they're all together. This gives a more impressive skyline but I don't think it looks as clean cut or tidy.

I think La Defense needs a supertall like the Hermitage but for a focal point, to form a pinnacle of the cluster, to tie it all together and make it look better than it already is.
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Old November 24th, 2010, 01:34 AM   #355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajaaronjoe View Post
No offend to the Persians, i do not find La De'fense beautiful to be honest. This cluster looks even more like Dubai or some Chinese cities. Basically, what i am trying to say is that none of this skyscraper is iconic in our vision. For example, when you see Empire State building you automatically know that it is New York, and the same thing when you see the Gherkin building you know that is London. Architects in Paris should focus more in iconic designs and quality rather than heights and quantity. Another fact is that La De'fense is lack of big pond, river or sea around it, unlike Manhattan, Chicago, Sydney, San Francisco, Singapore or Hong Kong etc. The only thing that inspires me is Eiffel Tower, it is not only marvellous, also iconic structure for both Paris and France.

I think architects are trying to create iconic skyscrapers with the new designs to make up for the lack of icons, obviously Paris has a huge number of iconic structures but i agree with the lack of iconic skyscrapers.
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Old November 24th, 2010, 01:46 AM   #356
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That's simply not true. Paris has 14 150m+ skyscrapers already built, plus 1 more under construction, 4 more with a building permit already issued and due to start construction soon, 3 more awaiting their building permit, and 2 more in pre-planning. In the worst case scenario, there will be 17 150m+ skyscrapers in Paris by the mid 2010s (the current 14 + 3 that are dead certain to be built), and hopefully, if all of them are built, there will be 24 150m+ skyscrapers in the late 2010s.

In comparison, according to Skyscraperpage, London has only 11 150m+ skyscrapers already built, with 4 more under construction, and 7 more proposed. So in the worst case scenario, there should be 15 150m+ skyscrapers in London by the mid-2010s (vs. 17 in Paris's worst case scenario).

And of course, the 150-meter limit is quite artificial when talking of skyline density. If the limit is lowered to 125 meters, then it adds 9 towers already built in Paris (+ 1 due to start construction soon), whereas it adds 5 towers already built in London. In other words, there are 23 125m+ towers already built in Paris (+ 1 u/c) vs. 16 125m+ towers in London (+ 4 u/c).

None of these figures include telecom towers such as the Eiffel Tower or BT Tower.

The Central Business District of Paris (the area from Champs-Elysées to Opéra to Bourse and Louvre) wins hands down in my opinion.
Utterly futile and pointless comparison......

Your figures are already out of date, London just had another 150m tower go in for planning yesterday, and no doubt many,many more will appear over the next decade, just as there will be new proposal's for Paris that no one knows about...
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Old November 26th, 2010, 04:56 AM   #357
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image hosted on flickr
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Old November 26th, 2010, 05:03 AM   #358
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Wow some great shots of La Defence there. I'm not sure I like Hermitage though. Seems like they might be a little awkward on the skyline.
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Old November 26th, 2010, 05:26 AM   #359
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image hosted on flickr




















[IMG]http://*************************/images/jpgs/paris/hermitage_paris_fp240409_5.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://*************************/images/jpgs/paris/hermitage_paris_fp240409_7.jpg[/IMG]

















Commercial center of la defense









Regards...
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Old November 26th, 2010, 11:34 PM   #360
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These two towers will definetely get build right? When will the construction start? Do they have an official date?
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