Okpo City and abandoned amusement park

[racetraitor]

I thought I'd look back on how I originally described the island, to see where we disagree.

Alright, maybe it's not one of the fastest growing parts of the country at the moment. Its shipbuilding industry does surpass Busan, especially if you count the whole island as one city. The underwater tunnel if it ever does happen will turn the island into a major hub of course. Hopefully in the shorter term a bridge will connect the northern part of the island with Busan. Okpo is definitely one of the larger urban areas, although whether or not it's a city is in dispute. It is very modern and there is a lot of highrise construction underway.

Originally Posted by racetraitor

Geoje Island is one of the fastest growing parts of Korea. Its shipbuilding industry surpasses even Busan, and with rumours of an underwater tunnel being built to Japan, this place could one day be a major hub in Korea. One of the larger cities, Okpo, is one of my favourite spots on the peninsula. It is a very modern place with lots of new growth, and plenty of paths along the water. Craziest of all is an abandoned amusement park sitting atop a ridge on the edge of town.

[Foda]

Busan is not known for its shipyards but for its ports. Major Korean shipyards are located in Seoul and Ulsan.

[racetraitor]

Originally Posted by Foda

Busan is not known for its shipyards but for its ports. Major Korean shipyards are located in Seoul and Ulsan.

Right, my mistake. It's Ulsan that has the country's largest, and the world's. Okpo and Gohyeon have the second and third largest in the country.

[cydevil]

Originally Posted by racetraitor

Okpo has about 200 000 and I think it's the second largest town on the island. Gujora obviously is much smaller, as I got the entire village into one shot.

Here's a map of the island showing how many towns there are. Okpo is on the northwest coastline and Gujora is a direct line south of it.
http://www.geojedominbak.net/image/m...je_map_two.gif

I would say the shot of Okpo in the morning is about 70% of the town by contrast.

Ummm.. Geoje city has a population of about 200,000, and Okpo districts(Okpo 1 district, Okpo 2 district) of Geoje city has a combined population of about 30,000. It's a pretty small town to say the least. And looking at the map, Okpo isn't that far off from downtown Geoje. Comparable distance in Seoul would be between the Seoul Tower and the Worldcup Stadium.

The urban development there is pretty amazing nonetheless. Geoje is a significant industrial spot in Korea as Samsung and Daewoo's shipyards are located there.

[Mussoda]

those pics show well how it looks.. thanks.
If i'm not wrong, the Okpo shipyards started by Kim Woojung of Daewoo,..
then, he gave the foundation of the today city

[Mussoda]

I thought about the difference of city notion.. actually, is there a difference between korean and western city?
I feel now that Okpo can become a city by itself if it's in foreign country, considering the topographic appearance separated with any other part of the island,..
but in korea, in administrative zoning, the topographic independency is not important,
actually, since 1990s, Gun(군, 郡) which owns several separate towns(읍,면) became just one city (시, 市) itself. i.e. Paju city, Pocheon city,..
but originally, before 1990s, those separate towns became separately city of its own.. i.e. Gwangmyeong city(광명시) (which was just a town of Siheung-gun), Guri city(구리시) (which was just a town of Namyangju-gun), and so on,...
In a sense, it seems to be a consequence of the trend that city zoning has been under conurbation.

[princeofseoul]

This may also be related to the level of urbanization of each country. In Korea, a city of 200,000 is small.. certainly not large, not even medium. More than 80% of Korean live in more populous cities. It would be surprising to refer to a pocket of 30,000 people as a city -- a village or a very small town or a 'dong' is more what comes to mind in this case. But in other countries where half or more of the population are living in towns with less than 200,000 people, 'city' would perhaps come to mind to describe an urban pocket such as Okpo.. It depends what you're used to I guess.

[Mussoda]

That's the way,,. I missed the aspect of volume feeling such as population other than the city size,.. ok..
and the word 'pocket' looks good.. i got it..ㅋㅋ

[racetraitor]

Originally Posted by cydevil

Ummm.. Geoje city has a population of about 200,000, and Okpo districts(Okpo 1 district, Okpo 2 district) of Geoje city has a combined population of about 30,000. It's a pretty small town to say the least. And looking at the map, Okpo isn't that far off from downtown Geoje. Comparable distance in Seoul would be between the Seoul Tower and the Worldcup Stadium.

This thread is a good reason not to use Wikipedia as a source. It turns out their number 200 000 comes from a job posting someone found online.

[cydevil]

Originally Posted by racetraitor

This thread is a good reason not to use Wikipedia as a source. It turns out their number 200 000 comes from a job posting someone found online.

lol

It's always a good idea to crosscheck with other sources when using Wikipedia. In dealing with statistics, KOSIS is a good choice, which is where I got my figures from.

[huffdaddy]

Originally Posted by princeofseoul

This may also be related to the level of urbanization of each country. In Korea, a city of 200,000 is small.. certainly not large, not even medium. More than 80% of Korean live in more populous cities.

200,000 is smallish, but are you sure about the 80% figure? I believe SK is about 80% urban, so it won't be quite that high of a % living in cities larger than 200,000. Unless they've chosen 200,000 as the starting point of "urban." Which seems a little low to me.

Many people officially live in much larger cities, while in reality living out in the country. For example, all of the islands around Incheon are officially part of Incheon city. In Gimhae, the city population includes all of the myeons and eups around Gimhae itself. The definition of "city" in South Korea seems to be what we'd call a county (or parish for our Louisiana friends) in America.

It would be surprising to refer to a pocket of 30,000 people as a city -- a village or a very small town or a 'dong' is more what comes to mind in this case. But in other countries where half or more of the population are living in towns with less than 200,000 people, 'city' would perhaps come to mind to describe an urban pocket such as Okpo.. It depends what you're used to I guess.

In Illinois, the second largest city in the state is only 175,000. Which is still considered smallish, but definitely urban. Then again, an eup with 20,000 people will have more "skyscrapers" than a city of 200,000 in America.

[princeofseoul]

^ yes the 80% figure is accurate as of 2002 (38.7 million south koreans lived in cities with 200,000 or more population). Now it's a bit more than this, I estimate maybe round 84% or so. I see your point with respect to the cities englobing often some small pockets here and there separated with mountains. Nonetheless, even so, the korean cities of 200,000 are as compact (counting urbanized+non urbanized square kilometers) than american cities of 200,000 pop.

About rate of urbanization, every country has a different rule and definition for this parameter. I estimate if the U.S. would use the same definition of 'urbanization' as SK, the rate of urbanization in the states would be 20-30% or so.

EDIT: Breakdown of Korean population by city size:

24,085,162 in cities above 1 million pop.
6,635,862 in cities from 0.5 to 1 million pop.
7,967,372 in cities from 0.2 to 0.5 million pop.
4,241,045 in cities from 0.1 to 0.2 million pop.

[huffdaddy]

Originally Posted by princeofseoul

Nonetheless, even so, the korean cities of 200,000 are significantly more compact and with fewer square kilometers (urbanized+non urbanized) than american cities of 200,000 pop.

The actual cities, i.e. -dong areas in Korea, yes. But what is technically included in a Korean city (-dong, -myeon, plus -eup) can encompass a much wider area than what is defined as a city in the US. Korean cities are more like what we'd call a county in America. For example:

Gimhae, pop. 453,728 area 178.87 sq. mi.
Sacramento, CA, pop. 475,743 area 99.2 sq. mi.

Incheon, pop. 2,628,000 area 372.41 sq. mi.
Chicago, pop. 2,833,321 area 237 sq. mi.

(Meanwhile Seoul fits 10,356,000 people into an area almost the exact same size as Chicago.)

Just glancing at a couple of cities, I'd guess that between 20-30% of the people who live in a city, other than a 광역시, actually live out in the country. So if they're counting all of the myeon and eup people as "urban" just because they technically live in a city over 200,000 people that 80% figure is going to really be a little lower. Not much, but a little. Maybe 5% I'd guess.

About rate of urbanization, every country has a different rule and definition for this parameter. I estimate if the U.S. would use the same definition of 'urbanization' as SK, the rate of urbanization in the states would be 20-30% or so.

According to the US Census Bureau, the US is about 80% urban + suburban. Which is people in metropolitan areas over 50,000. The 10 largest metropolitan areas account for around 68 million people, which would be almost 23% of the population. But rarely do suburbs have more than 200,000 people in the US. So it's hard to say what the % be if you had a 200,000 people cut off. But I'd say the 50,000 people cut off is a pretty good representation of an urban area in the US.

[princeofseoul]

^ My point was, most people in the states live in suburban-like areas, and the suburbs in the U.S. are like the rural areas in SK from the point of view of pop. density, proximity to stores, prox. to nearest large city center. You can certainly find some cities in the U.S. with a higher pop. density than Incheon, but I believe most will have a (much) lower one despitelarge chunks of rural and un-urbanized pockets being included within Incheon..

[huffdaddy]

Originally Posted by princeofseoul

^ My point was, most people in the states live in suburban-like areas, and the suburbs in the U.S. are like the rural areas in SK from the point of view of pop. density, proximity to stores, prox. to nearest large city center.

I agree. Which is one of the reasons I like living here. Even out in the country you're not that far from numerous amenities. Beats 30 or 40 miles between rest stops. Especially when you're on a bike.

You can certainly find some cities in the U.S. with a higher pop. density than Incheon, but I believe most will have a (much) lower one despitelarge chunks of rural and un-urbanized pockets being included within Incheon..

Actually, comparing Korean "city" to US "city" produces a lot of similar population densities. Some Korean cities have no match, particularly Seoul and collar burbs like Bucheon. But of course, the definition of "city" differs substantially.

[princeofseoul]

Originally Posted by huffdaddy

Actually, comparing Korean "city" to US "city" produces a lot of similar population densities. Some Korean cities have no match, particularly Seoul and collar burbs like Bucheon. But of course, the definition of "city" differs substantially.

Hmm.. I prefer to stop at this point since I do not have statistical data to show this, but.. my understanding is that a 'typical' american city (dayton, indianapolis, Syracuse) has a pop. density which is around 1000 persons/km2. Korean cities will generally have more density than this. Some korean cities (like Gimhae for instance) will be as low the american average, but we're looking at the less densily populated regions with lots of countryside, not the typical ones.

[huffdaddy]

Originally Posted by princeofseoul

Hmm.. I prefer to stop at this point since I do not have statistical data to show this, but.. my understanding is that a 'typical' american city (dayton, indianapolis, Syracuse) has a pop. density which is around 1000 persons/km2.

Not that there's a "typical" American city, but here are some population densities for American cities:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogra...lation_density

That's the top 40 or so, which are all over 1,000/sqkm.

Korean cities will generally have more density than this. Some korean cities (like Gimhae for instance) will be as low the american average, but we're looking at the less densily populated regions with lots of countryside, not the typical ones.

I don't know. You've got Seoul, and a few collar suburbs which are all very dense. Busan is quite dense as well. Most of the other 광역시s are around 2500/sqkm, which is below a number of large US cities. The least dense, Ulsan has a density of around 1000/sqkm.

Outside of that, I'm not sure what a typical Korean city would be. Looking at a list of the most populous cities, the next largest city (excluding Seoul, suburbs, and metropolitan cities) would be Jeonju. It has a density of around 3,100/sqkm. Which is in line with a number of American cities. Then Cheongju, at around 3,800/sqkm. Changwon is fairly populous but has a density of of only 1,800/sqkm.

City versus city, I think the comparisons would come out very similar. It's just that in the US, those cities are spread out across an area 100 times bigger. It'd be about the same as if every single American moved to the state of Texas.

[kyenan]

Originally Posted by huffdaddy

Not that there's a "typical" American city, but here are some population densities for American cities:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogra...lation_density

That's the top 40 or so, which are all over 1,000/sqkm.



I don't know. You've got Seoul, and a few collar suburbs which are all very dense. Busan is quite dense as well. Most of the other 광역시s are around 2500/sqkm, which is below a number of large US cities. The least dense, Ulsan has a density of around 1000/sqkm.

Outside of that, I'm not sure what a typical Korean city would be. Looking at a list of the most populous cities, the next largest city (excluding Seoul, suburbs, and metropolitan cities) would be Jeonju. It has a density of around 3,100/sqkm. Which is in line with a number of American cities. Then Cheongju, at around 3,800/sqkm. Changwon is fairly populous but has a density of of only 1,800/sqkm.

City versus city, I think the comparisons would come out very similar. It's just that in the US, those cities are spread out across an area 100 times bigger. It'd be about the same as if every single American moved to the state of Texas.

When considering Korean cities, it is good to remember that Korean cities are rural-urban combined cities. So, if you take out the rural areas from the administratively defined city area, you can see actual urban population density of Korean cities.

For example, Incheon has population of 2.6 million within the area of 994 sq. km. However, if you subtract Ganghwa and Ongjin counties, the population goes down to 2.52 million while the area drops down to 419 sq. km. Then the populatio density goes up from 2615 ppl/sq.km to 6014 ppl/sq.km.

Many of other Korean cities are in similar situation, due to the administrative reconstructuring occurred in the 90s.

[princeofseoul]

^ I don't have statistics to show any of this, but based on personal experience I would say most koreans live in urban areas where the population density seems to be around 3-5 times higher than in Europe/Japan and 10 times higher than in the U.S. Korean cities are incredibly compact lol.. It makes them look a bit ugly because of the middle class residential highrises, but they are very convenient to live in: no need for a car and little need to travel with the PT as well -- everything is nearby .

[brianmoon85]

Originally Posted by princeofseoul

^ I don't have statistics to show any of this, but based on personal experience I would say most koreans live in urban areas where the population density seems to be around 3-5 times higher than in Europe/Japan and 10 times higher than in the U.S. Korean cities are incredibly compact lol.. It makes them look a bit ugly because of the middle class residential highrises, but they are very convenient to live in: no need for a car and little need to travel with the PT as well -- everything is nearby .

Agreed, Koreans like convenience a lot. Like every apartment in Seoul is steps away from a subway station, which to me is a lifesaver. When I lived in New York for 5 years, it was alright but when I was living in DC and Virginia, it was impossible to walk to a subway or metro station...so inconvenient...I think American cities are designed so that people can drive around whereas Korean cities are more with convenience, having everything nearby (mini-markets, video stores, markets, pastry shops, schools, etc) To sum it up, in the USA, if you don't have a car, you're basically screwed for good