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Old February 12th, 2009, 05:04 PM   #361
RobH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo Rush View Post
Yes, demand is important but you would still need to build 2 or 3 or 4 venues from scratch.
Thats gonna cost quite a bit, apart from the upgrades to Villa Park or Elland Road.

With regards to Old Trafford, minor upgrades here and there are necessary but its basically ready.
New Pompey Stadium
New Anfield

I don't think any other new ones are really needed to be honest. The rest could be done with expansions of existing venues quite easily. For example, if building a new Forest stadium is problematic, an expansion to Derby's Pride Park would be very do-able and is something the club have been wanting to do for a while.

If a new Bristol stadium isn't forthcoming - something which may help with the geographical spread, I'd include either another upgrade in the midlands/north (include Sheffield for example), or the Stadium of Light (a stadium I wouldn't neceassrily consider a first choice otherwise).

Two new builds in 8 years isn't unrealistic or a huge task, even if the recession is as deep as it looks like it will be.
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Old February 12th, 2009, 05:13 PM   #362
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Not by much. We had 6 stadia with 40,000 seats or more ready to go.


Anyway, building 10 new venues fortunately would still cost less than the cost of preparing venues for England 2018.
Not a valid comparison. Sure, building costs in England are greater. But then, England is a far wealthier country than South Africa.
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Old February 12th, 2009, 05:16 PM   #363
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Not a valid comparison. Sure, building costs in England are greater. But then, England is a far wealthier country than South Africa.
True. Was not making a comparison just highlighting the high cost of building anything in the UK.

Really just playing devil's advocate. In these times building anything is not easy.
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Old February 12th, 2009, 08:28 PM   #364
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I'll echo what I said in another thread: If England doesn't commit to building new stadiums and upgrading current stadia then it won't win the bid.
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Old February 12th, 2009, 08:32 PM   #365
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Some people here obviously believe it's a very simple thing to expand a stadium with a few thousand extra seats. As if that is cheap and easy, just a minor little thing to do, which can easily be achieved and generally just costs a few million €.
But in reality that is not the case at all. Some stadia in fact just can't be expanded at all, and in many cases it's a very expensive thing to do and costs several dozen millions of euros instead of just a few and in quite a number of cases it's simply cheaper to build a completely new stadium than expanding an existing one. Just as a little reminder here, because some people here argue that it would basically just need a few little expansions of some stadia. But in fact that is in most cases not as simple as it seems. And quite often it doesn't really pay off very well, financially either. Especially if it's not an older, outdated stadium that's being expanded and renewed, but still a rather modern one instead.
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Old February 12th, 2009, 08:55 PM   #366
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But you're acting like these are things the bid organizers for every country aren't aware of! The logistics for possible stadium development and expansion are the same in other nations as they are in Germany, the only differences being the resources available. And as of right now I'd feel safe in saying the likes of England, Spain and elsewhere can match the level of investment seen in Germany.

No one is delusional in thinking venues like Leeds' Elland Road can be improved for just 20M Euros and a case of chocolate, but these events are seen as investments by the communities and the clubs/stadium owners and they will calculate the amount of investment they can afford based on expected levels of return. Germany has seen tremendous benefits from their investment in new and upgraded stadiums for their WC, through increased attendance at league matches and stadium events, through slight upticks in tourism and tax revenues. Likely the same will come about for whoever holds 2018 provided they don't build meager facilities like Italy did in 1990.

Feel free to speculate in a conservative fashion, but there's nothing wrong with everyone else feeling a little more optimistic. Cheers.
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Old February 13th, 2009, 02:07 PM   #367
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Elland road needs knocking down - its a million years from hosting a World Cup.

At the moment:

Wembley
Arsenal Emirates
Villa Park
Old trafford
St James Park
Stadium of light
Coms

With the minimum of effort these will be able to host WC games, but we need geographical spread which rules out Emirates and Stadium of light and coms basically. Possibly keeping Emirates if needed.

Liverpool
Everton
Spurs
Forest

4 new stadiums which would be large enough, however spurs wouldnt be used being in london.

So with current plans thats about 6/7 stadiums likely to to big enough and ready for 2018.

We need 2 or more stadiums (up to) to be build from scratch in addition to those already planned, and there are not many teams who it makes financial sense for them to build a brand new 45k seater stadium around. Most teams have sufficient capacity now. Stadiums in leeds, sheffield, bristol, portsmouth cannot sustain a 45k plus stadium/and/or they dont need one in the case of sheffield with one average stadium that united have and one ancient death haunted third world stadium that is hillsboro ...

not to mention transport to many of these grounds is piss poor.
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Old February 13th, 2009, 07:31 PM   #368
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I reckon that you should host the wold cup in just London and the north west. That way you save on travelling costs, concentrate the benefits and still put on a great show. . Even with existing venues just beeing tweeked you could do it, and if the new ones are built than that would be great

London
Wembley- 90 000
Twickenham- 82 000
emirates- 60 000
NWHL- 60 000
Stamford bridge-42 000
Upton park- 35 000

North west
Old trafford- 76 000
City of Manchester- 48 000
New Anfield-60 000
Everton- 50 000
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Old February 14th, 2009, 12:15 AM   #369
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Thats a great Idea

I've always thought London should at least get to host the European Championship
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Old February 14th, 2009, 04:04 AM   #370
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maybe if one day we announce our independence, then we can take half the england team and our hefty GDP with us...

Anyway, what about Reading as the second stadium in the south east, britains "largest" town, fast growing and excellently positioned, has some of the best rail links in the country and has a stadium which is ready to be expanded to 40,000 and would've been if they weren't relegated

or Brighton, Falmer would be half way there and hopefully expandable, and if we had to show the world a city/town on the south coast of england i'd rather it be brighton than portsmouth, plymouth or southampton.... and brighton has the links, the size and the culture to welcome the world

just a thought
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Old February 14th, 2009, 04:15 AM   #371
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That's why I suggested Brighton, as somewhat of a tourist town I thought it'd be better equipped.

Also, despite their league standing, BHA are financially "safe".
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Old February 14th, 2009, 10:31 AM   #372
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Quote:
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That's why I suggested Brighton, as somewhat of a tourist town I thought it'd be better equipped.

Also, despite their league standing, BHA are financially "safe".
I agree Brighton is a great town to show off to the world, much more exciting then Southampton. They maybe in league 1 at the moment but so are Leeds Utd, and their stadium usually gets mentioned as one to be considered as a 2018 venue.
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Old February 14th, 2009, 01:09 PM   #373
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Yeh, but compare the club's fanhbases and maybe you'll see why that is a flawed argument Kobo.
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Old February 14th, 2009, 03:22 PM   #374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Republica View Post

We need 2 or more stadiums (up to) to be build from scratch in addition to those already planned, and there are not many teams who it makes financial sense for them to build a brand new 45k seater stadium around. Most teams have sufficient capacity now. Stadiums in leeds, sheffield, bristol, portsmouth cannot sustain a 45k plus stadium/and/or they dont need one in the case of sheffield with one average stadium that united have and one ancient death haunted third world stadium that is hillsboro ...
not to mention transport to many of these grounds is piss poor.
Excuse me?

Third World? Haunted by a disaster what could have happened anywhere else in the country at the time?

Oh, and the reason why Transport links are poor to all stadiums is down to rubbish governments rejecting the cities. Hillsborough has the supertram, what has had many bids to be extended only for the government not to fund it.
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Old February 14th, 2009, 09:09 PM   #375
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Yeh, but compare the club's fanhbases and maybe you'll see why that is a flawed argument Kobo.
That's rubbish, brighton only look small now because they play in a small stadium and haven't had a sniff of top flight football in the premiership era.

if brighton had beaten notts county in the division 2 play off in 1991 they would've made the top flight, rather than sinking like a stone and selling their ground etc, 1 season of survival and they would've been founder premier league members, and who knows where they could be now.

For me

Brighton are probably the 2nd biggest south-eastern club outside of London. Personally in terms of potential to sustain a premier league club and build a large stadium it goes

1. Portsmouth
2. Brighton
=3. Reading/Southampton
4. Gillingham (don't laugh they took 35,000 to wembley in against man city, and took 45,000 the year after against wigan for third teir play off finals, medway is a large conurbation etc)
5. MK dons

For me all these clubs are bigger potentially and currently than northern dross like blackburn, bolton, wigan and middlesbrough!

although i do realise it was a comparison against Leeds, i just had to get my dig in
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Old February 15th, 2009, 02:10 PM   #376
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Yeh, but compare the club's fanhbases and maybe you'll see why that is a flawed argument Kobo.
I am not trying to say that Brighton is an equal size or bigger club than Leeds Utd, they are not. And I see a Leeds stadium being part of our bid. What I was agreeing with is that Brighton is a very attractive town for tourists and has a lot to offer, much more so than Southampton and Portsmouth. You also have to remember that all these fans that would come over, spend a majority of the time in the host cities and enjoying what they have to offer, and only a fraction of that time is actually watching the football matches in the stadiums. That is why we should offer them fun, exciting, vibrant cities like Brighton, as these cities show off whats great about our country, and would advertise to the world come visit the UK.
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Old February 16th, 2009, 12:52 AM   #377
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Excuse me?

Third World? Haunted by a disaster what could have happened anywhere else in the country at the time?

Oh, and the reason why Transport links are poor to all stadiums is down to rubbish governments rejecting the cities. Hillsborough has the supertram, what has had many bids to be extended only for the government not to fund it.
Yes, Hillsbrough is an awful stadium and the Leppings Lane end is still awful in just about every way.

And I know its the Governments fault. So what?
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Old February 16th, 2009, 02:48 AM   #378
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Originally Posted by Steel City Suburb View Post

Oh, and the reason why Transport links are poor to all stadiums is down to rubbish governments rejecting the cities. Hillsborough has the supertram, what has had many bids to be extended only for the government not to fund it.
because people don't use it, the government is funding nearby nottinghams extensions if i am not mistaken
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Old February 16th, 2009, 03:25 PM   #379
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Lots of people use the Sheffield Supertram!

I will reitterate Hillsborough is not a crap stadium, however old it might be. With modernisation and investment - looking likely to be delivered soon - it will be brilliant.
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Old February 16th, 2009, 04:07 PM   #380
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Yes, Hillsbrough is an awful stadium and the Leppings Lane end is still awful in just about every way.

And I know its the Governments fault. So what?
Hillsborough is a gem. One of a few remaining true British classic stadia. I would agree that it needs sensitive modernisation and/or refurbishment, but to describe it as you have shows utter disrespect.

TBH I would have Hillsborough over Brammall lane any day (despite BL being a fine English football ground in it's own right).
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