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Old February 26th, 2009, 12:09 PM   #501
Schmeek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert23262 View Post
I can't see it being a problem for City's new stadium if the capacity required was 45,000. The design of the extra two tiers (6,000 each) could easily be increased, I mean it's only an extra 1,500 seats they would need to add to the two tiers.
Not so sure about this. It appears that the 6k extra at either end when expanded could be the maximum possible. The ends are larger/taller than the side stands when in this format, and I can't see them being any bigger. There does appear to be room at the ends of the side stands (where the large open concourse is) where small expansion may be possible, but I doubt it as this will need to reamain large to compensate for the lack of vomitories and is intrinsic to the design.
But like I said before - I very much doubt this figure of 45k will be a requirement. If it were to be then Steve Lansdown would be building a stadium which expands to 45 instead of 42k as this man doesn't miss a trick.
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Old February 26th, 2009, 12:18 PM   #502
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Hey, Coventry is no Venise, we all know that

But I wouldnt go as far as to say that Coventry is as bad as Sunderland or worse!

Even if SoL was expanded to 64k, I just cant see why a place like Sunderland should be hosting games for the world's biggest sporting event (football pisses over the olympics)I think larger cities around the country should be given priority over Sunderland IMO.
As I've said, I'm from Sunderland and if I had to select one venue it'd be St James' Park (and that sticks in my throat). However, if FIFA/the FA wanted to maximise ticket sales it would be a lot easier to expand the Stadium of Light, it wouldn't inconvenience supporters greatly and as I said before it would lead to tremendous urban renewal in Sunderland (whilst Newcastle wouldn't have to change that much to host).

Both would appear to be greedy - but you never know.

With regard to the rest of the country - once again, I struggle to see the point of putting stadiums where they aren't needed.
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Old February 26th, 2009, 04:18 PM   #503
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Here's one of the renders (30,000 not expanded)




Go to http://www.bcfc.co.uk/page/Home/0,,10327,00.html for a fly-through

...and http://www.bcfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetai...569967,00.html for more renders (including 42,000 capacity renders)
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Old February 26th, 2009, 04:35 PM   #504
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Get it built! This would be brilliant for our bid, help the Geographic spread and be in a city I'd be proud to show off to the world!
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Old February 26th, 2009, 06:30 PM   #505
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The above render illustrates well how the design will incorporates a 'sunken bowl'. You can see on the right hand side, the end stand(already being angrily dubbed 'bus shelters' by some of our fans - you can never keep everyone happy!)the top of the tier is level with the external concourse. This concourse is an important part of how the stadium is put together as it is used to access the side stands as well above the main lower bowl. There are no vomitories for the main bowl.
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Old February 26th, 2009, 06:31 PM   #506
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I'd also like to see Plymouth's stadium expanded (if only temporarily) for 2018. It's another great city and I've had a look on Google Maps and there looks to be enough room nearby to expand.
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Old February 26th, 2009, 06:35 PM   #507
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I think this is fairly unique in this country. Maybe MK Dons new ground has a similar feature where spectators can view the pitch whilst getting refreshments etc.
Although I like the openess of this idea, I can see problems arising, with people stood on the concourses or at the retail units at all times during a game. People trying to get in a crafty fag or use the toilet meaning seats will always be empty and there would be constant human traffic around the stadium. Not such a good thing, but we'll see.
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Old February 26th, 2009, 06:43 PM   #508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gherkin View Post
I'd also like to see Plymouth's stadium expanded (if only temporarily) for 2018. It's another great city and I've had a look on Google Maps and there looks to be enough room nearby to expand.
I think Plymouth would make a great host City, but I can't see how they could expand Home Park appropriately. It would mean more than doubling the capacity, and although 3/4 is a basic 'U' shaped bowl, I don't think they could stick another tier on it so easily. And if they did manage to the antiquated (but charming) main stand would look totally out of place and completely smothered by the rest of the stadium.
Google earth does not always give a good idea. The side stand on the bowl part has a load of trees and a short sharp drop behind it(you can just make out a load of steps going down the embankment on GE), which would make things difficult.
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Old February 26th, 2009, 08:38 PM   #509
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Gherkin's WC 2018 ideas (regional suggestions):




North East:

Newcastle, St. James Park 52,000 (possibly expanded to 60,000)
Sunderland, Stadium of Light 48,000 (possibly expanded although not necessary)

~Okay the S.O.L's bland but you can't ignore a 48,000 seater stadium that close to a train station. And who cares if there's nothing to do in Sunderland - Newcastle's just a stone's throw away! St. James Park is a giant stadium; I'd love to see it fully expanded to +80,000 seats - it'd be the English Bernabeu... but it won't happen.


North West:

Manchester, Old Trafford 76,000 (could possibly expand but not necessary)
Manchester, Eastlands 48,000 (possibly expanded to 60,000)
Liverpool, New Anfield 60-75,000

~Loads to do in both cities, bit of a no-brainer really - as long as both Manchester stadia are allowed to be used and Liverpool get round to building their stadium!


Yorkshire & the Humber:

Leeds, Elland Road 40,000 (needs modernisation)
Sheffield, Bramall Lane 33,000 or Hillsborough 39,000 (both require modernisation + expansion to >40,000)

~Ideally I'd like to see a completely new 50,000 seater stadium in Sheffield for the two clubs to share (San Sheffield!) but expansion of either is more likely. Elland Road is hard to get to but there's loads to do in Leeds so the city could easily handle all the travelling fans.


East Midlands:

Nottingham, Nottingham City Ground 30,000 (expanded) or New Nottingham stadium (50,000)
Leicester, Walkers Stadium 32,000 (expanded to >40,000)

~Things to do in both cities. Nottingham Forest have announced ambitious plans to build a 50,000 seater on the outskirts of the city - this project would certainly be looked at for the English bid. Leicester also have plans to increase capacity.


West Midlands:

Birmingham, Villa Park 43,000 (possibly 51,000)
Wolverhampton, Molineux 28,000 (expanded to >40,000)

~Villa Park was the obvious choice but I also chose Wolverhampton because the stadium's close to the train station and has bags of character (it's orange!). It is also possible to expand the stadium by filling in the corners. The West Midlands is very populous so I think it needs two stadiums.


Eastern:

~Norwich or Ipswich seem the only two choices, but would tourists enjoy their time there? Expanding the stadiums would be a waste of money and perhaps not even possible. Building new stadia would certainly be a complete waste of money, but let's face it, England won't win the build if they don't intend on building new stadia.


London:
Wembley 90,000
Twickenham 82,000 or The Emirates 60,000 or New Spurs Stadium 60,000

~Wembley’s a no-brainer but the other 3 are in close competition to be the second stadium in the capital. Twickenham trumps the others with capacity, but it might go down to transport links. Spurs


South East:

Portsmouth, New Stadium >40,000
Southampton, St. Mary's Stadium 32,000 (expansion needed)

~I'd love to see tourists enjoying Oxford but it's very unlikely that the FA would want to expand/build a new stadium in the city. I've chosen Portsmouth as there's lots to do in the city and Southampton because it's got a modern stadium that can easily be expanded. Nothing to do in Southampton? Portsmouth's next door!


South West:

Bristol, New Bristol City Stadium 42,000
Plymouth, Home Park 20,000 (requires big expansion!)

~Bristol’s a lovely city so I was really pleased when Bristol City announced their new stadium plans. Plymouth (like Oxford) is a great city but expanding would prove tricky. The clubs plan to increase capacity to 25,000 or so by rebuilding the main stand but the stadium would need a completely new tier to bring the capacity up to FIFA’s capacity requirements.




Summary:

If 16 stadiums are to be used for the tournament, I'd suggest:
  1. St. James Park 52,000
  2. Stadium of Light 48,000
  3. Old Trafford 76,000
  4. Eastlands 48,000
  5. New Anfield 70,000
  6. Elland Road 45,000
  7. New Sheffield Stadium 50,000
  8. New Nottingham Stadium 50,000
  9. Walkers Stadium 40,000
  10. Villa Park 52,000
  11. Molineux 40,000
  12. Wembley 90,000
  13. Twickenham 82,000
  14. New Portsmouth Stadium 40,000
  15. Southampton 40,000
  16. Bristol 42,000






If only 12 are to be used, I'd suggest dropping Southampton, Leicester, Wolverhampton and Stadium of Light (mainly due to that there's less to do in these cities - and that there are alternative stadiums close by)
  1. St. James Park 52,000
  2. Old Trafford 76,000
  3. Eastlands 48,000
  4. New Anfield 70,000
  5. Elland Road 45,000
  6. New Sheffield Stadium 50,000
  7. New Nottingham Stadium 50,000
  8. Villa Park 52,000
  9. Wembley 90,000
  10. Twickenham 82,000
  11. New Portsmouth Stadium 40,000
  12. Bristol 42,000





Thoughts, comments?
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Old February 26th, 2009, 09:11 PM   #510
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16 stadiums is far too many.

The 12 stadium plan looks neat and pretty close to what I'd pick. However, I don't like the idea of having a rugby stadium, even a big one, in our bid: so the Emirates is the second London ground for me. Possible question mark about Eastlands as well given its proximity to Old Trafford and Liverpool, though I'm not sure what I'd replace it with.
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Old February 26th, 2009, 09:23 PM   #511
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Replacing Eastlands with the Stadium of Light would be the simplest + cheapest option... but it's a quality stadium (having hosted UEFA Cup final last year) so it wouldn't be easily thrown aside.
  • 4 new stadiums for the tournament doesn't seem too farfetched.

  • Wembley, Twickers/Emirates, Old Trafford, Eastlands and St. James Park need no modernising or expanding.

  • The remaining 3 stadiums need to be modernised/expanded. Bristol City have firm plans to do so; Villa Park, again, have plans in place to increase capacity and Elland Road plans to build hotel next to the main stand so there would still be room to expand the smaller 3 stands and get rid of those awful supporting roof columns!


I've got great confidence in the English bid

Last edited by Gherkin; February 26th, 2009 at 09:31 PM.
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Old February 26th, 2009, 09:28 PM   #512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gherkin View Post
  1. St. James Park 52,000
  2. Old Trafford 76,000
  3. Eastlands 48,000
  4. New Anfield 70,000
  5. Elland Road 45,000
  6. New Sheffield Stadium 50,000
  7. New Nottingham Stadium 50,000
  8. Villa Park 52,000
  9. Wembley 90,000
  10. Twickenham 82,000
  11. New Portsmouth Stadium 40,000
  12. Bristol 42,000

Thoughts, comments?
I would agree with most of those, but I have a few differences. My list, which I've posted in the other thread, would be this:

London - Wembley (90,000) – Goes without saying that the best stadium in the world today is a great venue for the opening match and the final.

London - Emirates Stadium (60,000) – The capital’s second venue represents the best available option at the present time, though I accept others may emerge in the near future.

Manchester - Old Trafford (potential expansion to 85,000) – Doesn’t necessarily need to be expanded, but I wouldn’t rule out the club going for it in the future. Also, the only logical stadium for Manchester as will be understood by most outsiders.

Liverpool - New Anfield (minimum 60,000) – The best option for a venue on Merseyside, giving the continuing controversy over Everton’s plans, even allowing for financial worries in the red half of the city.

Birmingham - Villa Park (expanded to around 55,000) – Given the apparent lack of progress on the long talked about City of Birmingham Stadium, and Aston Villa’s upward curve on the pitch, a bigger Villa Park is the more viable option for the second city.

Newcastle - St James' Park (potential expansion to 60,000) – Any bigger capacity than 60,000 is unrealistic, but I think expansion would be a positive.

Sunderland - Stadium of Light (potential expansion to 55,000 or maximum 64,000) – It’s a ready-made venue now, even before any expansion were to happen and the close proximity to Newcastle is a big benefit, not a hindrance.

Leeds - Elland Road (expanded to around 50,000) – Needs a major facelift but, if that is delivered, would be clear as the top ground in Yorkshire.

Sheffield - Bramall Lane (expanded to around 43,000) – I think a new stadium in the Steel City is unrealistic and Bramall Lane is a more likely option than Hillsborough of the existing venues.

Nottingham - Expanded City Ground or new stadium (40-50,000) – I’d far prefer an expanded City Ground, but I’d still prefer a new stadium in Nottingham to other options in the region.

Bristol - New City Stadium (45,000) – Vital for the geographical spread of the bid to get the south-west fully involved.

Portsmouth - New Stadium (45,000) – The best option for a southern venue in the current climate.
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Old February 26th, 2009, 10:32 PM   #513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmeek View Post
Not so sure about this. It appears that the 6k extra at either end when expanded could be the maximum possible. The ends are larger/taller than the side stands when in this format, and I can't see them being any bigger. There does appear to be room at the ends of the side stands (where the large open concourse is) where small expansion may be possible, but I doubt it as this will need to reamain large to compensate for the lack of vomitories and is intrinsic to the design.
But like I said before - I very much doubt this figure of 45k will be a requirement. If it were to be then Steve Lansdown would be building a stadium which expands to 45 instead of 42k as this man doesn't miss a trick.
I asked the architect about this earlier and he said that if it changed to 45,000 it would take a slight redesign but could be done.
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Old February 26th, 2009, 11:36 PM   #514
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Ah, nice to know. Good work - that's one less question I'll have to ask 2moro when I go down have a look. Didn't get a chance today, but I'm yet to hear negatives from anyone who attended.
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Old February 27th, 2009, 03:55 AM   #515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobH View Post
16 stadiums is far too many.

The 12 stadium plan looks neat and pretty close to what I'd pick. However, I don't like the idea of having a rugby stadium, even a big one, in our bid: so the Emirates is the second London ground for me. Possible question mark about Eastlands as well given its proximity to Old Trafford and Liverpool, though I'm not sure what I'd replace it with.
can you give me an explanation why in your opinion 16 stadiums is too many. bare in mind that teh euros never have less than 8 stadiums!
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Old February 27th, 2009, 04:00 AM   #516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gherkin View Post
Replacing Eastlands with the Stadium of Light would be the simplest + cheapest option... but it's a quality stadium (having hosted UEFA Cup final last year) so it wouldn't be easily thrown aside.
  • 4 new stadiums for the tournament doesn't seem too farfetched.

  • Wembley, Twickers/Emirates, Old Trafford, Eastlands and St. James Park need no modernising or expanding.

  • The remaining 3 stadiums need to be modernised/expanded. Bristol City have firm plans to do so; Villa Park, again, have plans in place to increase capacity and Elland Road plans to build hotel next to the main stand so there would still be room to expand the smaller 3 stands and get rid of those awful supporting roof columns!


I've got great confidence in the English bid
couple of things, how does the manchester/liverpool area get three stadiums, and London with a greater population just two??

No stadium in eastern england, i don't get your reasoning on saying expanding either portman road or carrow road would be a waste of money.

and you put sheffield in the east midlands
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Old February 27th, 2009, 05:22 AM   #517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gherkin View Post
If only 12 are to be used, I'd suggest dropping Southampton, Leicester, Wolverhampton and Stadium of Light (mainly due to that there's less to do in these cities - and that there are alternative stadiums close by)
  1. St. James Park 52,000
  2. Old Trafford 76,000
  3. Eastlands 48,000
  4. New Anfield 70,000
  5. Elland Road 45,000
  6. New Sheffield Stadium 50,000
  7. New Nottingham Stadium 50,000
  8. Villa Park 52,000
  9. Wembley 90,000
  10. Twickenham 82,000
  11. New Portsmouth Stadium 40,000
  12. Bristol 42,000



Thoughts, comments?
Lose Eastlands, FIFA wouldn't allow a 2nd stadium in Manchester if we already (rightly) have 2 in London. Replace with a new stadium for Norwich, and I think that 12 is fine. Possibly replace the new Nottingham stadium with an extended Pride Park, Derby (neither appear likely to threaten needing 40k seats, but it would be a lot more cost effective to extend Derby than to build a brand-new venue elsewhere).
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Old February 27th, 2009, 06:42 AM   #518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
No stadium in eastern england, i don't get your reasoning on saying expanding either portman road or carrow road would be a waste of money.

and you put sheffield in the east midlands
I knew I'd slip up with my Geography!

Swapping Eastlands for a stadium in the East would be a waste of money - there's no question. If FIFA want a stadium in the East then they'll build one, but if they don't want one and allow Eastlands to be used then that'll be a lot more convenient for us.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjuk View Post
Lose Eastlands, FIFA wouldn't allow a 2nd stadium in Manchester if we already (rightly) have 2 in London. Replace with a new stadium for Norwich, and I think that 12 is fine. Possibly replace the new Nottingham stadium with an extended Pride Park, Derby (neither appear likely to threaten needing 40k seats, but it would be a lot more cost effective to extend Derby than to build a brand-new venue elsewhere).
Nottingham's a much nicer city than Derby, and they already have plans to build a new stadium.

If Eastlands isn't allowed to be used then I'd agree that a new stadium for Norwich would be nice to see, and would spread the tournament out on the map better. As I said, if England doesn't build new stadiums, FIFA will take their tournament elsewhere.
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Old February 27th, 2009, 12:39 PM   #519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gherkin View Post
Nottingham's a much nicer city than Derby, and they already have plans to build a new stadium.
Nottingham's plans have always seemed a little optimistic to me. Coupled with the current economic climate and their precarious league position, I can't see the stadium going up any time soon.

That said, Norwich's league position isn't exactly encouraging either.

One thing that's pretty much guarenteed is that we won't get Eastlands AND Old Trafford, it'll have to be either/or. As the more iconic and larger venue, OT would appear to be the more likely.
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Old February 27th, 2009, 01:48 PM   #520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjuk View Post
Lose Eastlands, FIFA wouldn't allow a 2nd stadium in Manchester if we already (rightly) have 2 in London. Replace with a new stadium for Norwich, and I think that 12 is fine. Possibly replace the new Nottingham stadium with an extended Pride Park, Derby (neither appear likely to threaten needing 40k seats, but it would be a lot more cost effective to extend Derby than to build a brand-new venue elsewhere).
Derby have been planning on extending their stadium for a while now - Pride Park is always sold out even when they had the worst team in Premiership history so 42,000+ is not at all unrealistic. I quite like Derby as a city and if Forest's ambitious plans don't come off, I'll be more than happy to have Derby as the East Mids venue.

Nottingham as the preference but Derby would be a very good back up indeed.
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