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Old August 27th, 2009, 02:20 AM   #801
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If FIFA decided not to choose the English bid just because of that it would be very childish. I think this institution makes well thought decisions and doesn't let its opinion to be manipulated by the media.
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Old August 27th, 2009, 02:33 AM   #802
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We had crowd trouble at a Newcastle - Sunderland game last season with both sets of fans on the pitch. Nothing was made of that because it wasn't Millwall. Football scapegoats I'm afraid.

It's big news because they made a couple of films about it. The media want to cash in on this interest.
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Old August 27th, 2009, 02:34 AM   #803
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One of the reasons FIFA are strict when it comes to the space around the venue and the location of transport facilities. This is the sort of thing which can spiral out of control in a World Cup. It can happen anywhere in the world, but precautions need to be taken, esp during the world's most watched event.

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Old August 27th, 2009, 02:37 AM   #804
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Millwall and West Ham firms won't turn up for Tunisia vs Ecuador and Upton Park won't host a WC game anyway.

Wembley and the Emirates are far better prepared and spaced out - the Boleyn is an old fashioned ground surrounded by terraced streets. There aren't that many of those in our bid so the argument doesn't apply.
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Old August 27th, 2009, 03:41 AM   #805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke80 View Post
Millwall and West Ham firms won't turn up for Tunisia vs Ecuador and Upton Park won't host a WC game anyway.

Wembley and the Emirates are far better prepared and spaced out - the Boleyn is an old fashioned ground surrounded by terraced streets. There aren't that many of those in our bid so the argument doesn't apply.
how about serbia and croatia?

my point was not that these issues or stadium issues were exclusive to england, or even that englands bid had many "residential" venues but rather that perhaps there is some sense behind the "madness" of FIFA's safety precautions.

Personally, I don't think Emirates has the required space around it.
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Old August 27th, 2009, 05:38 AM   #806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PortoNuts View Post
If FIFA decided not to choose the English bid just because of that it would be very childish. I think this institution makes well thought decisions and doesn't let its opinion to be manipulated by the media.
Well, I'm not so sure considering the past, remember the last English bid.. Hooliganism was the first reason why they didn't obtained the WC (troubles have occured with english "fans" during France '98 in Marseille (I remember very well), Euro 2000 and euro 2004)...

An old article wrote just before the last English bid fails (found on the BBC website) :

Quote:
Is England's 2006 World Cup bid over? (Sunday, 18 June, 2000)

Hooligans could end 2006 World Cup bid.
BBC Sport Online's football editor, Howard Nurse, fears England's bid to stage the 2006 World Cup finals is doomed.


England have to ask themselves how serious their bid can be given the repeated trouble we have seen from so-called 'supporters' over the past 20 years or so.

Uefa have diplomatically stated that the latest violence during Euro 2000 will not affect England's bid to host the 2006 World Cup finals.

But we have to ask ourselves how much truth there is in that statement.

The 24 executive committee members of Fifa, football's world governing body will decide in Zurich on 6 July who should win the right to stage the 2006 finals.

England's rivals, Germany, South Africa, Brazil and Morocco, could well benefit from the latest shameful scenes we have witnessed.
@Luke80: Don't worry about Platini, he doesn't like the Real Madrid either, as he proved it yesterday (with his Anti-Real plan)..... Anyway, although he's a member of the FIFA' executive committee, he doesn't make the decision...
About his UEFA presidency, I'm not even sure he supports our bid for Euro 2016 ....

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Old August 27th, 2009, 01:35 PM   #807
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Our authorities have been among the best in the world at stamping out football hooligans. We never get trouble at any home international fixtures, even when teams like Croatia and Russia turn up.

Poland and Ukraine still have to have fences around their grounds and they got 2012.

The way the police deal with it here isn't perfect, but it is very good compared to other countries where either you're free to trash the place, or everyone is a criminal and 14 year olds need to be beaten across the face while they are lying on the floor petrified and crying.
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Old August 27th, 2009, 02:27 PM   #808
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It seems Millwall have been scapegoated as the hooligan problem in the England, and if England doesn't receive a genuine honest chance from FIFA because of this one event...for one act of hooliganism and for "previous events", surely that's making our country the scapegoat for the rest of the world.

Just ignore Russia, Poland, Serbia etc. No the problems are Englands alone. Sorry maybe my opinion's a bit clouded but i'm sick of our how Media here is exaggerating one event.
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Old August 27th, 2009, 02:40 PM   #809
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Just ignore Russia, Poland, Serbia etc. No the problems are Englands alone. Sorry maybe my opinion's a bit clouded but i'm sick of our how Media here is exaggerating one event.
You and every other football fan in this country. The media are cashing in on the event. These weren't football hooligan firms (they would have met as far away as possible).

I'd say 2 sets of people:
1. teenagers trying to prove themselves
2. drunk fans without tickets getting back at the police
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Old August 27th, 2009, 03:51 PM   #810
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Seriously compared to what hooligans do in Poland this was like a kindergarden play.
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Old August 27th, 2009, 07:16 PM   #811
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Quote:
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Seriously compared to what hooligans do in Poland this was like a kindergarden play.
Exactly.
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Old August 28th, 2009, 01:27 PM   #812
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If a load of pushing & shoving, and wannabe hooligans failing to get near each other, is what passes for the worst hooliganism in England these days... then I'd say that's a pretty good advert for English football.

20 years ago it wouldn't have been worthy of mention. Safety is much, much better around grounds today - the only thing that's gotten worse is journalism.
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Old August 28th, 2009, 02:21 PM   #813
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London's city limits encompass about 3 square km. Conurbations and cities are different things. That's why, for the sake of this thread, you wouldn't get away with trying to use two stadiums in the Manchester and Liverpool areas by saying they're not technically in the same city.
The City of London i.e. 2.9 sq km (1.12 sq miles, colloquially known as the "square mile") has no stadia within it. It is the financial distirict of London.

London on the other hand covers 1707 sq km (659 sq miles). This covers an enormous number of stadia.

I find this is something which always confuse people from outside London. Especially if the only google it without reading what the "city of london" actually is.

The City of London is the number 1 shown on the map below. Canary wharf which would be of interest to people in this forum is located at the bottom loopy bit of Tower Hamlets (number 8).



London itself includes all the other districts known as london boroughs.
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Old August 28th, 2009, 11:14 PM   #814
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It sickens me that English fans are always accused of hooliganism. Our record over the last 20 years is better than any other major footballing nation. Brazil, Argentina, Holland, France, Spain have all had major incidents (including large scale racism) at domestic matches in recent times, and a few years ago Italy had to suspend their league after a Police officer was killed at Catania (I think it was there anyway). That's before we get onto the likes of Partizan and Red Star Belgrade, Galatasary, Dinamo Zagreb and other eastern european clubs.

Yet one incident and it's splashed all over the press, because the media and a large percentage of the population over here can't wait to see the bid fail, so they can blame hooliganism for it.
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Old August 28th, 2009, 11:43 PM   #815
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Wow, that's a paranoid post. I don't think anyone wants to see the bid fail and I don't think people are "always" accusing the English of hooliganism. It's arguable that the press went a bit over the top this week, but their reasons for doing so weren't so that they could gloat if we lose the bid.

Considering it cost the UK economy at least £1bn when we failed to qualify for Euro 2008, do you really think anyone in the media would have an agenda of trying to lose us a world cup on home soil, when it would be a huge boon to their industry? Please, please think before you post such things!
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Old August 29th, 2009, 01:37 AM   #816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parcdesprinces View Post
Well, I'm not so sure considering the past, remember the last English bid.. Hooliganism was the first reason why they didn't obtained the WC (troubles have occured with english "fans" during France '98 in Marseille (I remember very well), Euro 2000 and euro 2004)...

An old article wrote just before the last English bid fails (found on the BBC website) :



@Luke80: Don't worry about Platini, he doesn't like the Real Madrid either, as he proved it yesterday (with his Anti-Real plan)..... Anyway, although he's a member of the FIFA' executive committee, he doesn't make the decision...
About his UEFA presidency, I'm not even sure he supports our bid for Euro 2016 ....
England didn't get the 2006 World Cup because they tried to shaft Germany on an agreement that Germany wouldn't compete with England's bid for Euro 96 in return for England not competing for WC 2006, and everyone voting knew this. Hooliganism had nothing to do with it.
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Old August 30th, 2009, 02:03 PM   #817
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England didn't get the 2006 World Cup because they tried to shaft Germany on an agreement that Germany wouldn't compete with England's bid for Euro 96 in return for England not competing for WC 2006, and everyone voting knew this. Hooliganism had nothing to do with it.

That and the fact that our bid for 2006 consisted of us jumping up and down like a 5 year in a tantrum and screaming 'but it's our turn! France got it twice so why can't we???'

At least this time we've actually got a decent bid.
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Old August 30th, 2009, 03:42 PM   #818
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Hooliganism has nothing to do with assigning the hosts to the World Cup or any other sporting event, for that matter. If it did, Euro 2012 wouldn't be in Poland and Ukraine (or anywhere else in Eastern Europe), the 2005 Champions League Final wouldn't have been in Istanbul and the 2009 Final wouldn't have been in Rome.

Who gets to host major sporting events is down to politics and economics. The best examples of this are the Olympics. Beijing got the 2008 games because the Olympic sponsors wanted a foothold in the Chinese market. The 2014 winter games went to Sochi because Russian energy company Gazprom signed a sponsorship deal with the IOC. It's the same for the World Cup. The tournament will go to the place that makes the most political and financial capital for FIFA (and to the bid team that greases the most palms).
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Old August 31st, 2009, 10:16 AM   #819
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Your forgetting that 2014 was also sort of a consolation prize for the Russians, having lost their Moscow bid for the 2012 Summer Olympics. The Olympics is sort of like that, should a country try for a Summer games and fail, but bid for a Winter one afterwords, they'd get the Winter games as a consolation.
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Old September 1st, 2009, 07:09 AM   #820
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I agree, it was the same for Albertville '92, because Paris was candidate and failed for the '92 summer olympics....
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