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Old November 10th, 2010, 07:45 AM   #2901
Walbanger
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Elizabeth II yes (and I keep forgetting that OZ has another country's head of state as their head of state).
Yes and 16 other nations. She isn't just the Queen of the United Kingdom, ethnically she's not even that English. Her full title is paragraphs in length. In Australia her official title is "Queen of Australia", in Canada she is "Queen of Canada" etc.

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Emperor Akihito? Ummm no.
Well that either says something of his gobal profile or maybe something about you.

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In my opinion it's sad to see "queens" and "emperors" in this day of age.
Well there isn't just one size fits all system and the US doesn't necessarily have the best system. Many a nation's head of state has a more ceremonial role where political power lies with the parliament rather than one more active in administration. Many of the remaining Monarchs are highly respected and popular with their people as they have been strickly raise for the burden of duty rather than under some republican systems where you get some rich egotistic yahoo stirring populist dribble to get elected by an impressionable populous. Some of the most stable, wealthy and free nations in the world have a monarch under a constitutional monarchy.

I am personally indifferent to Australia remaining a constitutional monarchy or a republic.

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Old November 10th, 2010, 07:52 AM   #2902
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Elizabeth II yes (and I keep forgetting that OZ has another country's head of state as their head of state).

Emperor Akihito? Ummm no.

In my opinion it's sad to see "queens" and "emperors" in this day of age.
Still neither of them ordered an medical factory bombed to cover up their sexual indisgressions.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 09:24 AM   #2903
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The thing is that the US almost literally does not need the government's support for the bid.

Stadiums and roads and public transportation is all handled by the local governments as well as any new hotel construction.

Other countries are much smaller than the US so its easier for the national government to handle cities and their constructions.

It's nice to have government support (and the US does have Obama's endorsement) but it's not needed.

And honestly Obama should have something more important to do than attending that function (like you know...fixing the economy).
I think what they are trying to say (and I know the point hasn't been well made) is by not having the Fed's step in on this stuff and relying on local govt to do the right thing, anything can happen.

This is common all over the world with the twits who take local govt roles unfortunately. You have the Bristol situation thats being discussed on the England thread, in Melbourne we have had issues for years with local govt stopping/delaying everything from parking to lighting at stadiums.

I still don't think this will be an issue. I'd imagine some fed co-ordinator will make sure the local govt morons do the right thing if the USA win the bid

and yes, I'm not a big fan of local govt doing much outside collecting the rubbish - in Melbourne they rarely do much other than delay development and grandstand
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Old November 10th, 2010, 09:25 AM   #2904
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Who brought up the queen and emperor? They have nothing to do with this. If we are supposedly debating whether or not President Obama's absence really matters, you all need to discuss the presence or absence at the FIFA presentation for each of the bidding nations' prime ministers. Not comparing whether more people have heard of Morgan Freeman or the emperor of Belgium.

Besides, in order to be included in the USA bid, local governments had to give guarantees about providing for necessary adjustments. These guarantees had to be generalized, because it's difficult to really foreshadow what FIFA will demand.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 09:30 AM   #2905
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Who brought up the queen and emperor? They have nothing to do with this. If we are supposedly debating whether or not President Obama's absence really matters, you all need to discuss the presence or absence at the FIFA presentation for each of the bidding nations' prime ministers. Not comparing whether more people have heard of Morgan Freeman or the emperor of Belgium.
I think its just a sign everyone is over the whole bidding process

The only reason the poli's go is to get their head on TV back home. As a previous poster said, Obama has a few bigger issues to worry about right now than this, and Clinton is a more than capable and appropriate substitute.

Worrying about it is ridiculous. Do we seriously think an exco delegate will change his vote because he got to shake Clinton's hand instead of Obama's?

This issue is nearly as dumb as the one saying infrastructure is a weakness of the US bid
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Old November 10th, 2010, 09:33 AM   #2906
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Why is Salt Lake City continually held up as the archetypal American city?
Who knows?
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Old November 10th, 2010, 09:35 AM   #2907
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Was there something wrong with SLC's transportation in 2002? If not, you're trolling.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 09:49 AM   #2908
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Was there something wrong with SLC's transportation in 2002? If not, you're trolling.
Hey Slippery,just wondering
Do you think that ExCo would take into account that since the World Cup in '94 you've had 2 extremely controversial Olympics ,which have probably had a bearing on the bids for New York and Chicago?
Would they be considered relevant as recent major events in the USA or would FIFA ignore such stuff??
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Old November 10th, 2010, 09:56 AM   #2909
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Hey Slippery,just wondering
Do you think that ExCo would take into account that since the World Cup in '94 you've had 2 extremely controversial Olympics ,which have probably had a bearing on the bids for New York and Chicago?
Would they be considered relevant as recent major events in the USA or would FIFA ignore such stuff??
Sure, there's a chance for political bias on any issue to sway voters, but what is your point...Are you just trying to predict who is going to win 2022, or are you trying to debate the technical pros and cons of this particular bid?
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Old November 10th, 2010, 10:08 AM   #2910
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Originally Posted by hngcm View Post
Elizabeth II yes (and I keep forgetting that OZ has another country's head of state as their head of state).

Emperor Akihito? Ummm no.

In my opinion it's sad to see "queens" and "emperors" in this day of age.
That's okay little fella, you live in a bubble....
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Old November 10th, 2010, 10:59 AM   #2911
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Sure, there's a chance for political bias on any issue to sway voters, but what is your point...Are you just trying to predict who is going to win 2022, or are you trying to debate the technical pros and cons of this particular bid?
Yes,I'm actually trying to ascertain just how long is long enough.2022 would be a full twenty years since the corruption scandal of Salt Lake City and 26 years since the disaster of Atlanta so you'd think it would be long enough-its just that we're voting 12 years in advance and these things are still pretty current
I'm sure they both had an impact on the bids of NY and Chicago,but that was the Olympics and not FIFA so I suppose we'll see
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Old November 10th, 2010, 11:42 AM   #2912
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That's okay little fella, you live in a bubble....
I'm originally from Mexico so that kind of explains why I would know more about the US than Japan.

Most Mexican school children would know about the queen. (btw what's her ethnicity?)

But Emperor Aikitho or whatever?

Naw.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 11:50 AM   #2913
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LOL yeah the average person anywhere does not know the name of the emperor of japan, most citizens in any country don't even know how their own government structure works. People know cultural icons, and the queen, Morgan Freeman, Bill Clinton, Oprah, Lady Gaga are all cultural icons. No one gives a toss about japan
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Old November 10th, 2010, 11:51 AM   #2914
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Well there isn't just one size fits all system and the US doesn't necessarily have the best system. Many a nation's head of state has a more ceremonial role where political power lies with the parliament rather than one more active in administration. Many of the remaining Monarchs are highly respected and popular with their people as they have been strickly raise for the burden of duty rather than under some republican systems where you get some rich egotistic yahoo stirring populist dribble to get elected by an impressionable populous. Some of the most stable, wealthy and free nations in the world have a monarch under a constitutional monarchy.

I am personally indifferent to Australia remaining a constitutional monarchy or a republic.
I know our system isn't perfect but the one thing I like about it is that if a politician is doing a bad job...you can kick him out with a vote. And if you don't then well you can't really complain. This applies perfectly to George Bush...

I guess I don't see the point of the ceremonial role of a monarch. I could understand if the monarch is involved in administration.

One thing I love about the United States is that you can quite literally do almost anything you set your mind to. You get what you work for. If you are a citizen then there's really nothing stopping you from being President.

Big difference from Mexico...

And sorry about arguing...we just need more info on the bids lol
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Old November 10th, 2010, 12:33 PM   #2915
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That's ok mate, god knows I dribbled on a bit to much.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 12:56 PM   #2916
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One thing I love about the United States is that you can quite literally do almost anything you set your mind to. You get what you work for. If you are a citizen then there's really nothing stopping you from being President.
The same is true of any western democracy. You also don't need to be born in the country to become president/prime minister etc in all of them either.

Kings and queens are pretty stupid overall, but people seem to like them. If they didn't hey'd be gone in a shot (albeit perhaps lot literally, these days)
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Old November 10th, 2010, 12:57 PM   #2917
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I know our system isn't perfect but the one thing I like about it is that if a politician is doing a bad job...you can kick him out with a vote. And if you don't then well you can't really complain. This applies perfectly to George Bush...

I guess I don't see the point of the ceremonial role of a monarch. I could understand if the monarch is involved in administration.

One thing I love about the United States is that you can quite literally do almost anything you set your mind to. You get what you work for. If you are a citizen then there's really nothing stopping you from being President.

Big difference from Mexico...

And sorry about arguing...we just need more info on the bids lol
This is massively off topic, but I'll give you a quick run-down on the pro's before getting back to the football.

Like the USA, we have three arms of Govt, the executive, the legislative, and the judiciary. Unlike the USA however, our executive is formed from the party with control of parliament (the government).

The parliament answers to the monarch, and the monarch has a series of reserve powers. A few conventions however now kick in.

1) because of geography, the monarch cannot rule directly in Australia on a day to day basis, so they appoint a Governor General to act in their steed. Convention is now that the government of the day now nominates the candidate, and the Queen approves it as a formality.

2) the powers are reserve powers, and to only be excercised by the GG (on behalf of the monarch) when the shit hits the fan. This convention has been honoured, with the GG only acting against the will of the govt on one occasion (and this was to effectively toss the govt of the day and call an election because the govt no longer had control of parliament).

this is where the balancing act comes in. While the Queen is our head of state, reality is it is now the GG. Those in favour of the arrangement say it works because if the GG goes nuts they can be sacked by the monarch.

The monarch has a vested interest in maintaining the goodwill of the people because they don't have the physical means to project power in Australia. If they abuse their power Australia will become a republic almost immediately.

The parliament also cannot go nuts, because the GG is always hanging over them. While they are a govt appointment, similar to Supreme Court justices in the USA, GG's take their role VERY seriously, and once in it they tend to not take lightly to govt telling them what to do.

we have had a vote to go republic, but it failed because even amongst those who support a republic, there is a major split between those supporting a direct election president and a parliament appointed one. Surprisingly however most did NOT want the President to have active executive powers like the USA, and for them to retain only reserve powers.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 04:38 PM   #2918
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Yes,I'm actually trying to ascertain just how long is long enough.2022 would be a full twenty years since the corruption scandal of Salt Lake City and 26 years since the disaster of Atlanta so you'd think it would be long enough-its just that we're voting 12 years in advance and these things are still pretty current
Oh, piss off X. As for Atlanta, blown TOTALLY out of proportion -- just by people like you who have nothing better to do on a rainy day than scratch your crotch. And if anything, those spoiled Brit athletes probably deserved the rerouting!

As for Salt Lake, then WHY ELSE would the IOC award them the Games even after the scandal had BROKEN? Besides (1) Welch & Johnson were only doing what was accepted m.o. in those days; (2) a 'transaction' only happens if there are receivers on the other end (which there were and they got caught); and (3) the U.S. Justice Dept cleared Welch-Johnson of any 'wrong-doing'!! Further, Salt Lake made $56 million!! Can you say the same for Torino and Vancouver ever since? So there goes your whiny complaints!!

Get off your crap throne and smell the coffee, nimrod!!
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Old November 10th, 2010, 07:54 PM   #2919
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It's actually probably better for the US bid that Clinton be there instead of Obama. Besides being beloved, Clinto has been a part of the bid for nine months or so now and was in South Africa this summer helping play the political game necessary to get votes. He has relationships with some executive committee members so besides having the cache as a former president that most loved and still do love, Clinton has real relationships with all these FIFA members. He's not going to be some head of state who shows up on the voting day to smile and say we really want the World Cup, he has been involved from the beginning.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 09:32 PM   #2920
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If the US would be chosen for the 2022 FIFA WC, Only LA and Washington DC would build modern stadiums for this WC. They would be financed by private donations.

2021 Confederation cup: United States
2021 U-17 FIFA World cup: Canada
2021 Gold cup: Mexico
2023 Gold cup: Mexico or Canada

Bill Clinton will highlight hearts and minds of the bid. There would be a video from Obama.
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