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Old November 10th, 2010, 10:02 PM   #2921
AndreasBerlin
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Originally Posted by en1044 View Post
Andreas, are you saying that local governments in the US wouldn't have enough money to build an effective transportation system? It seems like that is what you're trying to say.
I am not asking that, I am asking how much have they said they will contribute or pledge? Do you know? I don't think anyone here can tell me!
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Old November 10th, 2010, 10:08 PM   #2922
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Why is it so hard for you and others to understand, our leaders are not the ones writing the checks. The private sector is the one that will pay for needed improvements. And those improvements will be relatively minor when compared to any other bid. Our infrastructure is already in place.
The issue is that a private company's goal is to make a profit. A goverment's goal is to provide a service. There is a big difference in terms of the end product. A private company isn't going to invest in something where they wont make a profit, such as building a public transport network.

But the reason why this is important to FIFA is that a private company can easily go belly up, leaving FIFA holding the bag and costing them more money than they would have ever wanted. Goverments are much less likely to go belly up. That is why it is attractive to FIFA that a government supports the bid. And why the role (or lack of) of the US Government is an important issue for the US bid!
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Old November 10th, 2010, 10:17 PM   #2923
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Why is Atlanta continually held up as the archetypal American city?
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because, many who post here only "assume;" they never "know." This is to say, they only look at one event or one thing and juxtapose it to the US as a whole.
I know you people are playing dumb, because you know how hosting one major sporting event can influence hosting another major sporting events. Hell, that is why the Australians never shut up about the Sydney Olympics. They keep using the track record argument! (and it is a good one)


But this is all academic now, Qatar are going to be cleared of colluding and they are going to host the world cup. Its a pity because I think they have a terrible bid.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 10:20 PM   #2924
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Originally Posted by AndreasBerlin View Post
I am not asking that, I am asking how much have they said they will contribute or pledge? Do you know? I don't think anyone here can tell me!
So far, local governments have committed to widening the fields for a few stadiums. A few are in the process of developing increased public transport infrastructure. But it is too early to tell what other adjustments need to be made and how much they will cost without the FIFA inspection report. The fact is, local governments had to give generalized guarantees to the bid committee before they were allowed to be included in the US bid. These generalized guarantees essentially stated that they would pay for reasonable further adjustments as requested by FIFA.

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And why the role (or lack of) of the US Government is an important issue for the US bid!
Again, you need to realize that the US is a massive country and has a well-developed local government system, and rarely are local improvements ever handled by the federal government. In essence, each city's government acts as its own 'country' whereby they are competing to deliver the best experience for the World Cup. So all necessary improvements will have NOTHING to do with the US government.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 10:31 PM   #2925
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I know you people are playing dumb, because you know how hosting one major sporting event can influence hosting another major sporting events. Hell, that is why the Australians never shut up about the Sydney Olympics. They keep using the track record argument! (and it is a good one)
No, they are not related, otherwise Brasil/Rio would not be getting the World Cup/Olympics without one committee at least waiting to see how the other event fared. The Australians have to hype up their bid with the Sydney Olympics, Asian timezone and this "legacy" stuff because otherwise we see that they have only six cities, a few white elephants and a bunch of ovals.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 10:58 PM   #2926
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Originally Posted by krudmonk View Post
No, they are not related, otherwise Brasil/Rio would not be getting the World Cup/Olympics without one committee at least waiting to see how the other event fared. The Australians have to hype up their bid with the Sydney Olympics, Asian timezone and this "legacy" stuff because otherwise we see that they have only six cities, a few white elephants and a bunch of ovals.
Only issue I have with any of that is the white elephant claim

MCG - refurb only
ANZ - temporary extension, still is the major stadium of Sydney today
Aussie - second rectangular stadium of Sydney, used constantly
Subiaco - New stadium being built for AFL/cricket needs regardless
Adelaide - New stadium already being built for cricket/AFL
Suncorp - Main rectangular stadium of Brisbane today
Gold Coast - Stadium already being built for AFL and CWG bid
Skilled Stadium - Stadium already being developed for AFL needs
Canberra - New rectangular stadium needed for rugby and NRL needs
Newcastle - existing A-League/NRL facility that will need an upgrade for local comp needs
Townsville - existing A-League/NRL facility that will need an upgrade for local needs
Blacktown - brand new stadium, likely to be home for the new A-League team and an NRL team

of all of these, all but one are existing facilities catering for local needs, and nearly all need upgrades for local needs regardless.

where are the "few white elephants"??
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Old November 10th, 2010, 11:17 PM   #2927
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Originally Posted by krudmonk View Post
No, they are not related, otherwise Brasil/Rio would not be getting the World Cup/Olympics without one committee at least waiting to see how the other event fared. The Australians have to hype up their bid with the Sydney Olympics, Asian timezone and this "legacy" stuff because otherwise we see that they have only six cities, a few white elephants and a bunch of ovals.
Your missing my point. If I want to buy a cake, do I buy it off the cake shop where I got a good cake previously or a bad cake previously???

If a country did a good job hosting a major international sporting event in the past, then it is relevant. If a country had some issues hosting a major sporting event in the past, then that is also relevant.
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Old November 10th, 2010, 11:36 PM   #2928
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Originally Posted by AndreasBerlin View Post
If a country did a good job hosting a major international sporting event in the past, then it is relevant. If a country had some issues hosting a major sporting event in the past, then that is also relevant.
IOC corruption and transportation in Atlanta won't be relevant to the bid in 2022. Under your scenario, Germany should not have been given the World Cup. But Germany hosted a fine World Cup even though they had major issues both times they hosted the Olympics. Past history isn't always relevant, and that's the case here as well.
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Old November 11th, 2010, 12:05 AM   #2929
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DONT DISS MORGAN FREEMAN FFS. His voice has the capacity to paralyze me!
Yes, I'm sure he had the same effect on his grand daughter
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Old November 11th, 2010, 12:20 AM   #2930
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IOC corruption and transportation in Atlanta won't be relevant to the bid in 2022. Under your scenario, Germany should not have been given the World Cup. But Germany hosted a fine World Cup even though they had major issues both times they hosted the Olympics. Past history isn't always relevant, and that's the case here as well.
Godwin's law. You lose

You know exactly what I mean. You are just trying to spin it so that it doesn't make the US bid look bad.
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Old November 11th, 2010, 12:28 AM   #2931
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Godwin's law. You lose
What does Godwin's Law have to do with Munich? That was the worst f*cking disaster I've ever seen, and the Munich organizers should be ashamed of their performance. But again, that had no bearing on the awarding of the 2006 WC.

Quote:
You know exactly what I mean. You are just trying to spin it so that it doesn't make the US bid look bad.
I'm not spinning anything about the US bid. Maybe the IOC corruption scandal affects the perception of the US bid for brainless twits like you, but it likely won't have much affect on the vote for 2022.
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Old November 11th, 2010, 01:05 AM   #2932
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Originally Posted by T74 View Post
Only issue I have with any of that is the white elephant claim

Gold Coast - Stadium already being built for AFL and CWG bid
Skilled Stadium - Stadium already being developed for AFL needs
Canberra - New rectangular stadium needed for rugby and NRL needs
Newcastle - existing A-League/NRL facility that will need an upgrade for local comp needs
Townsville - existing A-League/NRL facility that will need an upgrade for local needs
Blacktown - brand new stadium, likely to be home for the new A-League team and an NRL team

of all of these, all but one are existing facilities catering for local needs, and nearly all need upgrades for local needs regardless.

where are the "few white elephants"??
Perhaps "white elephant" is a term too specific, indicating that these would sit dormant entirely. However, there is still a lot of construction to be done only for the World Cup and the fact that a few will be downsized after the tournament confirms this. I listed the World Cup and post-tournament seating capacities in parentheses.

Gold Coast (40,000 down to 27,000): Maybe this could get by because a lot of the "waste" in my mind would be on that plastic AFL franchise. I don't see them packing the house for that, though.

Geelong (44,000 down to 37,000): They could fill it easily, but the Cats take big games to Melbourne anyway. Play all home fixtures there and get your money's worth.

Canberra (40,000 down to 27,000): Neither the Raiders nor Brumbies need that much space, but I guess an upgrade is in order.

Newcastle (42,000 down to 34,000): Knights certainly have the potential to pack more than 14,792 per game, but they don't. The Jets are always teetering on the brink of extinction.

Townsville (40,000 down to 30,000): Seems a bit like Newcastle but with smaller population base and even weaker soccer club. Maybe the Cowboys will be good again and draw more than 13,143 per game.

Blacktown (41,000 down to 26,000): This is the ultimate. It would be in the middle of similar-sized venues in Penrith and Parramatta. It's targeted for a second Sydney A-League team that looks like a mess getting off the ground. People say the Bulldogs could play there, but they're working on rebuilding Belmore and Blacktown is not all that close to their traditional base.

I look forward to Adelaide Oval and Subiaco getting spruced up, though.
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Old November 11th, 2010, 01:14 AM   #2933
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Originally Posted by krudmonk View Post
Perhaps "white elephant" is a term too specific, indicating that these would sit dormant entirely. However, there is still a lot of construction to be done only for the World Cup and the fact that a few will be downsized after the tournament confirms this. I listed the World Cup and post-tournament seating capacities in parentheses.

Gold Coast (40,000 down to 27,000): Maybe this could get by because a lot of the "waste" in my mind would be on that plastic AFL franchise. I don't see them packing the house for that, though.

Geelong (44,000 down to 37,000): They could fill it easily, but the Cats take big games to Melbourne anyway. Play all home fixtures there and get your money's worth.

Canberra (40,000 down to 27,000): Neither the Raiders nor Brumbies need that much space, but I guess an upgrade is in order.

Newcastle (42,000 down to 34,000): Knights certainly have the potential to pack more than 14,792 per game, but they don't. The Jets are always teetering on the brink of extinction.

Townsville (40,000 down to 30,000): Seems a bit like Newcastle but with smaller population base and even weaker soccer club. Maybe the Cowboys will be good again and draw more than 13,143 per game.

Blacktown (41,000 down to 26,000): This is the ultimate. It would be in the middle of similar-sized venues in Penrith and Parramatta. It's targeted for a second Sydney A-League team that looks like a mess getting off the ground. People say the Bulldogs could play there, but they're working on rebuilding Belmore and Blacktown is not all that close to their traditional base.

I look forward to Adelaide Oval and Subiaco getting spruced up, though.
I fail to see how a stadium that is being used becomes a white elephant :s
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Old November 11th, 2010, 01:17 AM   #2934
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Krud-Geelong and Gold Coast won't make the cut
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Old November 11th, 2010, 01:19 AM   #2935
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I know you don't have to build any stadia, but how much public transport is there to each stadium? This was something the inspectors had a problem with a few months ago
I don't know about the other cities, but Tampa might be a problem. The county that Tampa sits in just voted down a referendum to increase the sales tax to improve the transportation systems we already have and build out a light rail system. The good thing is, if the county does try again at 2012, pushing back the completition date 2 years will bring us to 2020. But if they fail to do so, then thousands of visitors will be welcomed to an auto-centric city who has a very unreliable bus system because there isn't enough money to make the routes faster.
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Old November 11th, 2010, 01:40 AM   #2936
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Krud-Geelong and Gold Coast won't make the cut
Oz won't make the cut!!
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Old November 11th, 2010, 01:43 AM   #2937
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Oz won't make the cut!!
The USA has at this stage got Blazer,maybe Warner,perhaps Thompson

Finito

You can thank Qatar and the Iberian bid for that.Two months ago the USA almost had enough primary votes to win in the first round
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Old November 11th, 2010, 01:45 AM   #2938
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The USA has at this stage got Blazer,maybe Warner,perhaps Thompson

Finito

You can thank Qatar and the Iberian bid for that.Two months ago the USA almost had enough primary votes to win in the first round
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Old November 11th, 2010, 02:34 AM   #2939
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I fail to see how a stadium that is being used becomes a white elephant :s
Anyone that isn't a halfheaded bogan can see that I corrected my usage of the term and elaborated on what I originally meant.
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Old November 11th, 2010, 03:44 AM   #2940
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Anyone that isn't a halfheaded bogan can see that I corrected my usage of the term and elaborated on what I originally meant.
nicely put

On the downgrades, only ones I'd argue with are Newcastle (will grow as people flee Sydney and commute to work) and Geelong (Cats make a bundle playing at home - already are demanding more games in Geelong).

Also for GC, this upgrade (40k) will be needed if they win the bid for the CWG, which seems very likely at this stage.


Back to USA though
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