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Old June 14th, 2008, 03:41 PM   #401
CharlieP
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Originally Posted by Benjuk View Post
You can lay real turf inside a dome, it just doesn't have a long 'life'. Lay it early enough to bed in, use it in the group stages, then get off it before it's dead.

In fact, if memory serves me right, it's been done for a world cup before - possibly US 94, or maybe 2002 - can anyone confirm?
You're thinking of the Pontiac Silverdome in Detroit, which had turf laid for the 1994 World Cup.
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Old June 14th, 2008, 03:48 PM   #402
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Originally Posted by Benjuk View Post
You can lay real turf inside a dome, it just doesn't have a long 'life'. Lay it early enough to bed in, use it in the group stages, then get off it before it's dead.

In fact, if memory serves me right, it's been done for a world cup before - possibly US 94, or maybe 2002 - can anyone confirm?
The Silverdome in Pontiac got a lawn pitch by laying hundreds of comb-shaped tiles if I remember it correctly.
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Old June 14th, 2008, 05:09 PM   #403
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I think you rememberred correctly. And I recollect that some players called it one the best evenly laid pitches they had ever played on. Jürgen Klinsmann was one of them if I recall correctly. I am not sure if he played there for the WC, but I believe Germany did play a test match in the Pontiac Silverdome on that pitch.

I also think that Houston does the same for the Reliant stadium. They bring in the grass on trays. After a game they can remove it for other activities they can host in that beautiful stadium.

The sliding pitches (Vitesse Arnhem in the Netherlands was the first in the world to use this feature, later the Arena Auf Schalke in Gelsenkirchen, Germany and the Phoenix Cardinals stadium copied this) are the best solutions for the grass growing problems in closed stadiums or stadiums with retractable roofs.

The examples I just mentioned all have a sliding pitch and a sliding roof! I think in the Ukraine (Shaktar Donetsk) and in Russia (Zenith Saint Petersburg) are also bulding stadiums with these features. Though I am not totally sure about this. They are building new stadiums, that is for sure.
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Old June 14th, 2008, 05:12 PM   #404
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You forget the stadium in Sapporo, Japan, which has the whole turf field on a 'tray' and it just slides outside to the sun when not in use, and slips back in en toto when needed for a football game.
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Old June 14th, 2008, 05:41 PM   #405
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Quote:
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The examples I just mentioned all have a sliding pitch and a sliding roof! I think in the Ukraine (Shaktar Donetsk) and in Russia (Zenith Saint Petersburg) are also bulding stadiums with these features. Though I am not totally sure about this. They are building new stadiums, that is for sure.
Half right. Donetsk won't have this.
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Old June 14th, 2008, 07:31 PM   #406
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Thanks for helping me out!
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Old June 14th, 2008, 10:59 PM   #407
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Qwest Field in Seattle has rolled out natural turf over their FieldTurf surface. Apparently this works even better as the Field Turf blades actually holds and blends into the Sod. This would give domes like Edward Jones, Alamodome, Lousiana Superdome, Georgia Dome and Ford Field an excellent shot at landing rounds and kills the roofed stadium arguments against the US.
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 12:57 AM   #408
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Roofs?

Why has this thread nearly died? I guess everyone has conceded 2022 to the USA then, right?

Anyway, to my US compatriots, I've sort of figured out why some parties deem roofs over football stadia as premium. Have been watching a lot of Euro 2008 and have been amazed at the clarity of light at the night games -- and it isn't blinding either. So it's the light offered at the rims of the roofs that make the difference. They offer a more focused but diffused light vs. the huge, upright, farther-back light posts of open air stadia -- which can be blinding if you are facing one of those.

But of course, when 2022 happens in the US again, would it matter? They wouldn't be playing night games anyway in the US for European prime time, right? So roofs would only make it more comfortable for the fans, nothing else.
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 01:27 AM   #409
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to be honest i dont understand what the big deal is about the need for roofs as well and im from the England. The need for a roof in a stadium has become to bigger deal over the last few years in europe and this has meant that traditional venues such as the nou camp are losing their origininality and tradition.
but my main worry about a WC in the US is that i dont know if it could have the fan park experience that has been experienced at the last world cup and at the current euro 2008 championships. I just cant see it im afraid i think the US might not decide against allowing fan parks too many americans have had an inaccurate image of soccer fans of being drunken hooligans which might make them feely uneasy with the huge number of soccer fans in their city centre and this would make for a poor WC if this were to be the case because the atmosphere is key for the WC being a success.
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 01:34 AM   #410
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Originally Posted by berkshire royal View Post

to be honest i dont understand what the big deal is about the need for roofs as well and im from the England. The need for a roof in a stadium has become to bigger deal over the last few years in europe and this has meant that traditional venues such as the nou camp are losing their origininality and tradition.
but my main worry about a WC in the US is that i dont know if it could have the fan park experience that has been experienced at the last world cup and at the current euro 2008 championships. I just cant see it im afraid i think the US might not decide against allowing fan parks too many americans have had an inaccurate image of soccer fans of being drunken hooligans which might make them feely uneasy with the huge number of soccer fans in their city centre and this would make for a poor WC if this were to be the case because the atmosphere is key for the WC being a success.
I think if the stats warrant it, why can't it be done? Past experience will be the guide -- but certainly law and order must be maintained as well.
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 01:58 AM   #411
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Originally Posted by rover3 View Post
I think if the stats warrant it, why can't it be done? Past experience will be the guide -- but certainly law and order must be maintained as well.
i think that firstly its needs to be noted that at EURO 2008 in some of the fan parks there were up to 80,000 fans inside them at peak times and that it was estimated that 140,000 holland fans alone made the trip to the championships so we are talking some very big numbers although i doubt the numbers would be quite so high for a WC in the US. The key to these fan zones is that the local people feel comfortable with all the visiters and that they join in to as the austrians and swiss have done and my worry is that americans plain and simply wouldnt because they dont trust the visiting fans when in reality 99.9% are there to have a party and fun time, as far as i know there hasn't been any major problems at EURO 2008 and the most arrests there have been was 14 in one night from what i know, hell you probably get that many arrests for the superbowl.
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 02:42 AM   #412
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Originally Posted by berkshire royal View Post
i think that firstly its needs to be noted that at EURO 2008 in some of the fan parks there were up to 80,000 fans inside them at peak times and that it was estimated that 140,000 holland fans alone made the trip to the championships so we are talking some very big numbers although i doubt the numbers would be quite so high for a WC in the US. The key to these fan zones is that the local people feel comfortable with all the visiters and that they join in to as the austrians and swiss have done and my worry is that americans plain and simply wouldnt because they dont trust the visiting fans when in reality 99.9% are there to have a party and fun time, as far as i know there hasn't been any major problems at EURO 2008 and the most arrests there have been was 14 in one night from what i know, hell you probably get that many arrests for the superbowl.
yeah...exactly; and I was about to say, well, England isn't playing in this tournament, so...

However, I'm a little wary about the Germany-Turkey game, especially in the German cities with high Turk neighborhoods. I'd watch those.
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 03:10 AM   #413
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As much as I like to play down trouble at football, I must protect England's record...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rover3 View Post
yeah...exactly; and I was about to say, well, England isn't playing in this tournament, so...
English hooliganism is blown out of all proportion, which is why there's been minimal coverage of the trouble after Croatia vs Turkey, Poland vs Germany, Holland vs France, Italy vs Romania, etc.
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 03:13 AM   #414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berkshire royal View Post
i think that firstly its needs to be noted that at EURO 2008 in some of the fan parks there were up to 80,000 fans inside them at peak times and that it was estimated that 140,000 holland fans alone made the trip to the championships so we are talking some very big numbers although i doubt the numbers would be quite so high for a WC in the US. The key to these fan zones is that the local people feel comfortable with all the visiters and that they join in to as the austrians and swiss have done and my worry is that americans plain and simply wouldnt because they dont trust the visiting fans when in reality 99.9% are there to have a party and fun time, as far as i know there hasn't been any major problems at EURO 2008 and the most arrests there have been was 14 in one night from what i know, hell you probably get that many arrests for the superbowl.
50
http://uk.reuters.com/article/worldF...63143720080622

100
http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news?slu...=afp&type=lgns

200
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7444420.stm
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 03:13 PM   #415
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Quote:
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yeah...exactly; and I was about to say, well, England isn't playing in this tournament, so...

However, I'm a little wary about the Germany-Turkey game, especially in the German cities with high Turk neighborhoods. I'd watch those.
I can tell you now this whole thing of english hooligans is a load of rubbish its massively over hyped and was a problem nearly two decades ago.
I have been a season ticket holder and been goin to away games all over the country now for the last 15 years and i can only think of 2/3 occasions where i have seen anything to do with hooligans and i have never been in any danger personally from going to watch soccer. To be honest i agree that the turkey-germany game might be one to watch but i am almost certain that there won't be any problems in and around the stadium but considering that many german cities have millions of turks then yes you might well see something there but dont expect a mini civil war.
I just wonder though how do you in your honest opinion feel americans in host cities would feel about having around 100,000 visiting fans do you really think that they will embrace the fans in the same manor that they have in germany, switzerland and austria?
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 07:09 PM   #416
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I just wonder though how do you in your honest opinion feel americans in host cities would feel about having around 100,000 visiting fans do you really think that they will embrace the fans in the same manor that they have in germany, switzerland and austria?
I don't know; I can't speak for the cities. But...

#1 -- would they come in those numbers? They would have to have lodgings.

#2 - the matchings in a WC are more global than in a Euro, so not until the quarters or the semis, would you get European powers + a Brazil or an Argentina facing each other.

So long as they a place to stay, or have rented RVs or tents AND they have qualified for a visa, I don't see there being a problem. But hey, we got thru 1994 fine, I don't see why another round would be any different? If anything, there would probably be more hotel/motel rooms.
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 08:22 PM   #417
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I'm sure the host cities would be fine. There should be plenty of large event experience in host cities.
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 10:33 PM   #418
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Seriosuly, does anyone rememebr ANY hooliganism at WC '94?
I doubt it had anything to do with the English not being there, though American politicians thought that at the time.
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 10:34 PM   #419
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NFL stadiums that we know will have roofs at that point

Lucas Oil Field
Reliant Stadium
Edward Jones Dome
Ford Field
Georgia Dome
Metrodome/Vikings new stadium
Louisiana Superdome
Qwest Field
New Cowboys Stadium
U of Phoenix Stadium

NFL Stadiums that have actual roof plans
Dolphin Stadium
Cleveland Browns Stadium

Stadiums not listed above that have hosted soccer + have the type of owner that would
likely build a roof or whatever is required OR some combination of the above.

Gillette Stadium
Soldier Field
Invesco Field
Lincoln Financial Field
FedEx Field
Bank of America
New Giants/Jets Stadium



Non NFL Venues with roofs that have hosted rectangular field sports
- Chase Field
- Safeco Field
- Alamo Dome
- Pontiac Silverdome

I'd also throw in whatever incarnation a San Diego and Minnesota stadium will end up as.


This thread is making this equation too hard. We're talking about the NFL. If this group of owners felt a World Cup would benefit them in some way, they'd build whatever they had to. The Venue are already there.

Lost here is the actually wording of FIFA regarding roofs. The only requirement is to cover press and dignitaries. Some of these stadiums already have enough suite and covered club sections for the press.

If I had to make a guess a list of stadiums bidding would look like this(strengths listed):

Ford Field
Lucas Oil Field
Reliant Stadium
Louisiana Superdome
Qwest Field
New Cowboys Stadium
U of Phoenix Stadium
Gillette Stadium
Soldier Field
Invesco Field
Lincoln Financial Field
FedEx Field
Bank of America
New Giants/Jets Stadium
Dolphin Stadium
Cleveland Browns Stadium

Plenty to choose from
People need to realize that any bid is going to include pretty much the same stadiums/cities as in 1994. The bid will use stadiums from the largest metro areas, along with the areas with the largest population of foreign residents. With all due respect, no games would ever be played in New Orlans at the Super Dome, or at LP Field in Nashville, or at Browns Stadium in Cleveland or at Lucas Oil Stadium in Indianapolis. Those cities are small and aren't that diverse when you compare them to Chicago, Boston, New York, LA, etc.

The bid will look like this:

New York: New Meadowlands
Boston: Gillette Stadium
Washington: FedEx Field (Or whatever Schneider has built by 2022)
Dallas: Cotton Bowl
Los Angeles: Rose Bowl
San Francisco: New 49ers stadium
Seattle: Qwest Field
Chicago: Soldiers Field
Philadelphia: Lincoln Financial Field
Tempe: University of Phoenix Stadium
Denver: Invesco Field at Mile High
Miami: Dolphins Stadium
Tampa: Raymond James Stadium

The tournament would only really need 9 or 10 venues for the tournament.
Boston, New York, Washington, Dallas, Chicago, San Francisco and Los Angeles are locks. With Seattle, Philadelphia and Tempe strong possibilities to be included. I think Detroit is out as Ford Field is pretty small and who knows, maybe Orlando will get in as well.

One thing to note, FIFA is not big on domes, nor artificial turf which of course is the preferred playing surface for American sports nowadays.

One of the main differences between the stadiums of America and those of Europe and South America is the amount of suites and just the shier size of the stadiums. Pretty much any stadium in America, built within the last 10-12 years, has enough suite space to accommodate the press, dignitaries etc. so the roof requirement would be null.

I hope the United States gets this, I think it would be even bigger than in 1994. If the dollar stays the way it is now (who knows where it will be in 14 years) I would expect to see a bigger flood of people from Europe than in 1994.
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 11:03 PM   #420
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I don't know; I can't speak for the cities. But...

#1 -- would they come in those numbers? They would have to have lodgings.

#2 - the matchings in a WC are more global than in a Euro, so not until the quarters or the semis, would you get European powers + a Brazil or an Argentina facing each other.

So long as they a place to stay, or have rented RVs or tents AND they have qualified for a visa, I don't see there being a problem. But hey, we got thru 1994 fine, I don't see why another round would be any different? If anything, there would probably be more hotel/motel rooms.
i have no doubts what so ever of the US dealing with the number of visiting fans in fact im certain that the US could handle it better then anywhere else in the world. In terms of the number of fans visiting at EURO 2008 here some links with rough estimates

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/sport/...tia-clash.html
http://switzerland.worldcupblog.org/...s-in-bern.html

to be honest i dont expect that amount of fans to make the trip as obviously travel costs are a lot higher. But for the world cup in 2002 in Japan + South Korea something like 15-20,000 england fans alone made the trip.
I would guess that some european teams could bring up to 20,000 fans i have no idea as to how many mexican, brazilian and argentinian fans would make the trip but im guessing it would be pretty high. But then you would get teams from africa and the middle east that would probably only bring something like 2-3,000 fans.
How does this sound England V Costa Rica in Chicago 2022 for a group game and there are 20,000 england fans and there is 10,000 Costa Rica fans and then with all the other fans in the area for this game alone there are 50,000 fans in the city and that includes some without tickets.
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