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Old October 19th, 2008, 09:11 AM   #581
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Originally Posted by ryebreadraz View Post
Dallas-Fort Worth isn't big enough to host the final.
Just so we are clear, when you say Dallas-Fort Worth aka DFW, you are talking about one of the largest Metroplex's in the world. Just clearing that up. And I think the world knows about Dallas, we did have our own TV show that EVERYONE knows the theme song too.
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Old October 19th, 2008, 09:38 AM   #582
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First UGA would have to agree to host and that would be tough because to fit a WC field they would have to take out the hedges, something they did in '96 and got heat for. Second, they would have to replace all their benches with seats to accommodate FIFA rules and I doubt UGA would be willing to decrease capacity for that. Then, FIFA would have to agree that a stadium an hour and 20 or 30 minutes away from Atlanta is still considered Atlanta. Neadless to say, with all these things that would have to happen, Atlanta is a long shot.

Legion Field had hosted WCQ's before, but they have since put in turf and the USSF said they won't even receive WCQ's anymore. On top of that, Legion Field has benches. Nashville is not a world renowned city. When people list of major US cities, some people bring up Miami, but few, if any bring up Nashville and the same could be said for Charlotte. Charlotte's Bank of America Stadium also has one of the smallest press boxes in the NFL and would require a very large auxiliary press area that would lower capacity significantly. In addition, neither Charlotte nor Nashville have the multi-ethnic composition of Miami. Miami would be the host in the southeast.
Well, let's break down the faults of every stadium suggested then...good God. The suggestion wasn't to replace Miami, but to have the cities located more closely together - with Miami included as one of the host cities, rather than the Texas cities. Do you really not think that UGA or any university, city, or stadium would not bend over backwards to be part of the World Cup? I think so. And the Silverdome actually was one of the host sites in 1994, so it's not impossible for FIFA to agree to a dome...FIFA isn't the Pope....

Charlotte and Nashville are as world-renowned as several of the cities that have been suggested in this thread. I didn't try to say that they are among the most well known cities in the U.S., but they have their niches - country music and banking - and are as renowned as maybe...

Hanover, Kaiserslautern, Dortmund (Germany)?
Saint-Étienne, Nantes, Lens (France)?
Gwangju, Ulsan, Seogwipo (South Korea)?
Oita, Rifu, Niigata (Japan)?

I'm gonna have to say that Nashville and Charlotte are at least as well known as the above list of cities.

Last edited by WeimieLvr; October 19th, 2008 at 10:08 AM.
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Old October 19th, 2008, 09:43 AM   #583
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Just so we are clear, when you say Dallas-Fort Worth aka DFW, you are talking about one of the largest Metroplex's in the world. Just clearing that up. And I think the world knows about Dallas, we did have our own TV show that EVERYONE knows the theme song too.

And can even name a good number of the stars...Larry Hagman, Barbara Belle Gedes, Victoria Pricipal, Patrick Duffy, Linda Gray, Charlene Tilton, and (somebody) as Ray Krebbs. I can't remember Jock or Cliff...
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Old October 19th, 2008, 09:56 AM   #584
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Thank you
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Old October 19th, 2008, 10:11 AM   #585
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Thank you

I wonder how many know the theme to Atlanta's most famous show? It WAS on for 7 seasons....but that song may have already been well known.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designing_Women
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Old October 19th, 2008, 10:25 AM   #586
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Originally Posted by Arist View Post
Just so we are clear, when you say Dallas-Fort Worth aka DFW, you are talking about one of the largest Metroplex's in the world. Just clearing that up. And I think the world knows about Dallas, we did have our own TV show that EVERYONE knows the theme song too.
Dallas-Fort Worth is a major city, which is why it will certainly be a host, but it's not big enough to be the host of a final. When you take everything into account, there's no way DFW compares with LA or NY. It's even behind Chicago and DC (because it is the capital). How many people travel from all over the world to DFW? Not nearly as many as the amount of people who travel to NY or LA. Major city? Yes, but not one of the country's 2 or 3 biggest which is what it needs to host a final.

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Well, let's break down the faults of every stadium suggested then...good God. The suggestion wasn't to replace Miami, but to have the cities located more closely together - with Miami included as one of the host cities, rather than the Texas cities. Do you really not think that UGA or any university, city, or stadium would not bend over backwards to be part of the World Cup? I think so. And the Silverdome actually was one of the host sites in 1994, so it's not impossible for FIFA to agree to a dome...FIFA isn't the Pope....

Charlotte and Nashville are as world-renowned as several of the cities that have been suggested in this thread. I didn't try to say that they are among the most well known cities in the U.S., but they have their niches - country music and banking - and are as renowned as maybe...

Hanover, Kaiserslautern, Dortmund (Germany)?
Saint-Étienne, Nantes, Lens (France)?
Gwangju, Ulsan, Seogwipo (South Korea)?
Oita, Rifu, Niigata (Japan)?

I'm gonna have to say that Nashville and Charlotte are at least as well known as the above list of cities.
Yeah, if you're talking about hosting a WC you have to break down the pros and cons of every stadium. When they put a bid together you better believe they're going to weigh the pros and cons of every stadium in consideration and BofA's small press box will certainly be taken into account.

You're comparing apples to oranges here. The US is far different than any other country in the world when it comes to major cities and cities that can host in a WC. Cleveland is the 40th biggest city in the US and is bigger than some of the cities you listed. The same can be said for Pittsburgh, which is the country's 59th biggest city. You can't compare host cities from past WC"s in other countries to host cities here because the size of the country and sex appeal of the US from a pop culture and notoriety stand point is unmatched.

After the Silverdome hosted in '94, FIFA said they would only allow domes with grass laid down if there was no other option for a WC and if that country had no other option it likely would not be given the right to host. The Georgia Dome is all but out for that reason.

UGA would not bend over backward to host a few matches at Sanford Stadium. Do you think they're going to rip out the hedges (for which their biggest donors had major complaints in '96) and replace every bench with a seat? Basically the entire stadium is benches which means they would have to install seats in the entire stadium, which would drastically decrease the capacity. How do you think UGA is going to sell that to the donors? How about to all their season ticket holders when they get a call from UGA saying they no longer have seats because there aren't enough seats anymore for them now that they replaced the benches for 5 or 6 WC matches. Yeah, I don't think that's going to happen.

At least one of the Texas cities will host and most think both Houston and Dallas will. Three of the nation's top 10 largest cities are in Texas so you better believe that it will have at least 1 host city and likely 2. You can't create another cluster to include multiple cities in the southeast because that would bring the total number of host cities above the FIFA allowed number. So if both Texas cities are hosting there is only one spot left in the southeast and Miami will certainly beat out Charlotte, Nashville or any other city. Atlanta is the only city in the south that can compete with Miami, but they will need a new stadium to make it work.
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Old October 19th, 2008, 11:12 AM   #587
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Just for reference: (from the FIFA regulations themselves): The pitch shall have the following dimensions: length 105m, width 68m. The total surface area shall have the following dimensions: length 125m, width 80m, in order to provide sufficient space for warm-up areas and pitch-side photographer positions.

Previous US Venues:

Rose Bowl:
Still in use as it was in '94. Capacity: 91,000.

Pontiac Silverdome: Closed
Replaced with Ford Field. Capacity: 65,000. Not sure if field meets FIFA standard dims.

Stanford Stadium:
Still in use, but extensive renovations reduced capacity to 50,000

Giants Stadium:
Still in use, but soon to be replaced. Capacity for new Giants Stadium:82,000. Not sure if field meets FIFA standard dims.

Citrus Bowl:
Still in use. To be renovated in 2010, Capacity ~75,000

Soldier Field:
Still in use. Extensively renovated since the '94 WC. New Capcity: 61,500. New playing field FIFA approved dim?

Cotton Bowl:
Still in use. Big additions since the '94 WC. New capacity: 92,200.

Foxboro Stadium:
Colsed in 2002. Replaced by Gillette Stadium, capacity ~69,000. Looks FIFA approved since the Revs still play there.

RFK Stadium:
Still in use, but not for long. By 2022, I'm guessing this will be long gone. Not sure if FedEx Field meets FIFA standards, but capacity is a big improvement: 91,000.
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Old October 19th, 2008, 11:16 AM   #588
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Yeah, if you're talking about hosting a WC you have to break down the pros and cons of every stadium. When they put a bid together you better believe they're going to weigh the pros and cons of every stadium in consideration and BofA's small press box will certainly be taken into account.

You're comparing apples to oranges here. The US is far different than any other country in the world when it comes to major cities and cities that can host in a WC. Cleveland is the 40th biggest city in the US and is bigger than some of the cities you listed. The same can be said for Pittsburgh, which is the country's 59th biggest city. You can't compare host cities from past WC"s in other countries to host cities here because the size of the country and sex appeal of the US from a pop culture and notoriety stand point is unmatched.

After the Silverdome hosted in '94, FIFA said they would only allow domes with grass laid down if there was no other option for a WC and if that country had no other option it likely would not be given the right to host. The Georgia Dome is all but out for that reason.

UGA would not bend over backward to host a few matches at Sanford Stadium. Do you think they're going to rip out the hedges (for which their biggest donors had major complaints in '96) and replace every bench with a seat? Basically the entire stadium is benches which means they would have to install seats in the entire stadium, which would drastically decrease the capacity. How do you think UGA is going to sell that to the donors? How about to all their season ticket holders when they get a call from UGA saying they no longer have seats because there aren't enough seats anymore for them now that they replaced the benches for 5 or 6 WC matches. Yeah, I don't think that's going to happen.

At least one of the Texas cities will host and most think both Houston and Dallas will. Three of the nation's top 10 largest cities are in Texas so you better believe that it will have at least 1 host city and likely 2. You can't create another cluster to include multiple cities in the southeast because that would bring the total number of host cities above the FIFA allowed number. So if both Texas cities are hosting there is only one spot left in the southeast and Miami will certainly beat out Charlotte, Nashville or any other city. Atlanta is the only city in the south that can compete with Miami, but they will need a new stadium to make it work.
Wow. You must have a crystal ball. You know everything FIFA is thinking and doing and you seem to know the decisions FIFA will make. WAIT - are you FIFA?

UGA ripped out the hedges 10 years ago...so I guess it wouldn't be a problem. There was enough lead time to grow new hedges and have them ready to reinstall after the Olympics. I say **** FIFA...let them beg the U.S. to have it here. From the sound of it FIFA must hold the U.S. to differnt standards. How bout it ryebreadraz aka FIFA?
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Old October 19th, 2008, 11:30 AM   #589
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Wow. You must have a crystal ball. You know everything FIFA is thinking and doing and you seem to know the decisions FIFA will make. WAIT - are you FIFA?

UGA ripped out the hedges 10 years ago...so I guess it wouldn't be a problem. There was enough lead time to grow new hedges and have them ready to reinstall after the Olympics. I say **** FIFA...let them beg the U.S. to have it here. From the sound of it FIFA must hold the U.S. to differnt standards. How bout it ryebreadraz aka FIFA?
You say **** FIFA and let them beg? Well it's a really good thing you're not Sunil Gulati because I'd actually like us to host a WC. The WC is the world's biggest event and countries beg to host it. FIFA sets guidelines and rules, then on top of that you have to impress FIFA. That's the way it works if you want to host. We were granted exceptions in 1994, but we won't get those exceptions next time around. That means all stadiums must be all-seaters (which UGA won't do and decrease capacity by over 10,000) and the fields must be full FIFA approved fields. FIFA is rather predictable so if you have any clue about what they want and look for, you can pretty much figure out what's going to happen with regards to things like this. FIFA holds every country to a standard of that country's best...our best just happens to be better than most country's best so yes, we are held to a different standard.
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Old October 19th, 2008, 11:40 AM   #590
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You say **** FIFA and let them beg? Well it's a really good thing you're not Sunil Gulati because I'd actually like us to host a WC. The WC is the world's biggest event and countries beg to host it. FIFA sets guidelines and rules, then on top of that you have to impress FIFA. That's the way it works if you want to host. We were granted exceptions in 1994, but we won't get those exceptions next time around. That means all stadiums must be all-seaters (which UGA won't do and decrease capacity by over 10,000) and the fields must be full FIFA approved fields. FIFA is rather predictable so if you have any clue about what they want and look for, you can pretty much figure out what's going to happen with regards to things like this. FIFA holds every country to a standard of that country's best...our best just happens to be better than most country's best so yes, we are held to a different standard.

That's what I mean...**** holding the U.S. to a higher standard than the rest of the world. It's unfair and I won't stand for it! Seriously, it would go no further than that if anyone with any balls were in charge. South Africa better have all the same requirements filled or there would be hell to pay.

THE WORLD'S BIGGEST EVENT? Or the world's largest sporting event? As for sporting events I would say the Olympics is just as large and more widely popular...
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Old October 19th, 2008, 11:50 AM   #591
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Old October 19th, 2008, 12:18 PM   #592
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That's what I mean...**** holding the U.S. to a higher standard than the rest of the world. It's unfair and I won't stand for it! Seriously, it would go no further than that if anyone with any balls were in charge. South Africa better have all the same requirements filled or there would be hell to pay.

THE WORLD'S BIGGEST EVENT? Or the world's largest sporting event? As for sporting events I would say the Olympics is just as large and more widely popular...
The Olympics doesn't touch the World Cup. The World Cup takes over an entire city while the Olympics is relegated to a single city. Take a look at the ratings too. The World Cup dwarfs the Olympics ratings. The World Cup is far and away the world's biggest event.

Why would you want the US to put on the same kind of show that S. Africa does? We can do far more than they can so why limit ourselves. Why host in Birmingham when we have many superior cities to host? Because Dortmund hosted? Hell no. If we get the right to host in 2022, why would we hold ourselves to a low level when we can do better. If we're going to do it, do it the best that we can. The basic requirements for every host are the same. Hotel rooms in each host city, stadium capacity and other stadium requirements. That's all the same, but if we want to host like S. Africa, Birmingham, San Jose, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati are hosting. Why should we do that?
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Old October 19th, 2008, 12:44 PM   #593
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The Olympics doesn't touch the World Cup. The World Cup takes over an entire city while the Olympics is relegated to a single city. Take a look at the ratings too. The World Cup dwarfs the Olympics ratings. The World Cup is far and away the world's biggest event.

Why would you want the US to put on the same kind of show that S. Africa does? We can do far more than they can so why limit ourselves. Why host in Birmingham when we have many superior cities to host? Because Dortmund hosted? Hell no. If we get the right to host in 2022, why would we hold ourselves to a low level when we can do better. If we're going to do it, do it the best that we can. The basic requirements for every host are the same. Hotel rooms in each host city, stadium capacity and other stadium requirements. That's all the same, but if we want to host like S. Africa, Birmingham, San Jose, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati are hosting. Why should we do that?
What is wrong with those cities? Birmingham people??? Pittsburgh people??? Speak up! Those are fine cities that can easily host a soccer game or two. Please.

You have a flawed logic, I'm sorry to tell you. No one is saying that we should limit ourselves, but there's no way you can tell me that one host country should be held to a higher standard than another. A standard is a minimum, not a limit - one can exceed a standard with effort, but should be held to the same minimum as other contestants.

I would have to see ratings numbers to believe that about the Olympics. It has such a wide variety of events that appeal to a broader audience - plus soccer. And again, you mean the world's largest SPORTING event. There are larger global events.
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Old October 19th, 2008, 04:28 PM   #594
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The Olympics is small-fry in comparison. The European Championships (football) also comfortably beat the Olympics in viewing figures. Even the Rugby World Cup pushes the Olympics pretty close.

World Cup 2002 - 28.8Bn
Rugby WC 2003 - 3.4Bn
Athens 2004 - 3.9Bn
Euro 2004 - 8.0Bn
World Cup 2006 - 26.3Bn
Rugby WC 2007 - 4.2Bn
Bejing 2008 - 4.7Bn

http://en.beijing2008.cn/16/87/article211928716.shtml

http://euro-2008-euro-2008.blogspot....d-figures.html

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/fifa...stats_9299.pdf

http://www.worldcupweb.com/rugby/new...e.asp?id=10564

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6593676.html

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Old October 19th, 2008, 04:34 PM   #595
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If Atlanta were to be considered it would be Sanford Stadium at UGA in Athens...that's where the Olympic finals were played in 1996. Legion Field in Birmingham also hosted some Olympic early round games.

Does Sanford Stadium have bench style seating or proper chair backs? I think for it to qualify it would have to have the latter as well as skybox's for corporate/sponsor types.
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Old October 19th, 2008, 05:02 PM   #596
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Here is my line of thinking on where the host would be....

LA new Stadium
San Fan Bay Metro new stadium
Seattle - Qwest field.
Phoenix - Only as an alternatives to LA or S.F. not getting a new stadium. I think FIFA would prefer to have open air games and without the roof closed in Arizona in the summer it would be unbearably hot.


Houson - Reliant Stadium
Dallas - New cowoby stadim
Miami - If there was a refurbished Dolpin Stadium
Tampa Bay - If there wasn't a refurbished Dolpin Stadium then stadium/locatoin/metro size would make sensiable alternative.
Denver - same as bove.

Chicago - Soldier Field
Indianapolis - I think arguably the best stadium in the Midwest now.
Cleveland - Top tier NFL stadium.
Minneapolis - A new open air Minny stadium would likely put Minny ahead of ahead of Cleveland or Indy.
Cincinnati - could also provide a good alternative as Chicago-Indy-Cinncy would all make a nice corridor to travel from and Paul Brown is one of the nicer NFL stadiums IMO.

Washington DC
New York
Boston
Philly - could replace Boston perhaps or be put in one of the other brackets if deemed a better choice.

QF's - NYC, Chicago, S.F., Dallas
Semi's - LA and DC
Final - NYC

Quote:
Just so we are clear, when you say Dallas-Fort Worth aka DFW, you are talking about one of the largest Metroplex's in the world. Just clearing that up. And I think the world knows about Dallas, we did have our own TV show that EVERYONE knows the theme song too.
Ture, but I think only a few cities make sense from a symbolic and pragmatic point of view for a final. For me they would be Washington, LA, NY, and perhaps Chicago because of its central location (though Soldier Field isn't big enough and would not qualify).


Quote:
And the Silverdome actually was one of the host sites in 1994, so it's not impossible for FIFA to agree to a dome...FIFA isn't the Pope....
True, however FIFA would many more better options for stadiums to chose from then they did in 1994 that they wouldn't have to include stadiums they find fault with such as domes. One thing working against some cities such as Nashville and Charlotte also is that the southeast is arguably the weakest soccer supporters in the whole country to give medium size cities there a game may not make sense. That is why I think only the biggest metros in the SE (4 or 5 perhaps) makes sense and Atlanta I think is taken out of the equation for lack of a "proper" facility.

Quote:
What is wrong with those cities? Birmingham people??? Pittsburgh people??? Speak up! Those are fine cities that can easily host a soccer game or two. Please.
They are great cities with great people and even with good very adequate stadiums. However FIFA wants the 12 best options. Those cities may not have the best market to go and get premium ticket prices to fill up 60-75k stadiums.
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Old October 19th, 2008, 06:01 PM   #597
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Because Dortmund hosted? Hell no.
What a snotty comment. Dortmund alone is bigger than the whole USA, football-wise. And so are St. Étienne, Lens, Kaiserslautern and any other place you mock.
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Old October 19th, 2008, 07:58 PM   #598
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First UGA would have to agree to host and that would be tough because to fit a WC field they would have to take out the hedges, something they did in '96 and got heat for. Second, they would have to replace all their benches with seats to accommodate FIFA rules and I doubt UGA would be willing to decrease capacity for that. Then, FIFA would have to agree that a stadium an hour and 20 or 30 minutes away from Atlanta is still considered Atlanta. Neadless to say, with all these things that would have to happen, Atlanta is a long shot.

Legion Field had hosted WCQ's before, but they have since put in turf and the USSF said they won't even receive WCQ's anymore. On top of that, Legion Field has benches. Nashville is not a world renowned city. When people list of major US cities, some people bring up Miami, but few, if any bring up Nashville and the same could be said for Charlotte. Charlotte's Bank of America Stadium also has one of the smallest press boxes in the NFL and would require a very large auxiliary press area that would lower capacity significantly. In addition, neither Charlotte nor Nashville have the multi-ethnic composition of Miami. Miami would be the host in the southeast.
Charlotte and Nashville have their own cultures, and people are apparently quite taken by them if you look at migration rates. Both stadiums will be upgraded and/or replaced by 2022.

The southeast isn't a "weak" soccer area either. It's just ignored by MLS. The Southern USL teams are quite successful, and well respected among their peers. Charleston, Atlanta, and Raleigh (Cary) have special stadiums just for soccer, and Charlotte and Greensboro (Browns Summit) are building them.

It doesn't really have to be the biggest city. Japan hosted without Tokyo and the provincial cities like Oita, Kashima, and especially Niigata did a spectacular job.

Hartford's stadium can be expanded, and UConn has big dreams for their team. Giants Stadium (whatever the new one is called) won't fit a soccer pitch. There is one stadium in New York proper that can, Yankee Stadium, but that presents issues of it's own.
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Old October 19th, 2008, 09:58 PM   #599
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Does Sanford Stadium have bench style seating or proper chair backs? I think for it to qualify it would have to have the latter as well as skybox's for corporate/sponsor types.
Nearly everything at Sanford is a bench. That is why I don't think it is even an option. I can't fathom UGA ripping out all those benches, installing seats and decreasing capacity by at least 10,000.

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What a snotty comment. Dortmund alone is bigger than the whole USA, football-wise. And so are St. Étienne, Lens, Kaiserslautern and any other place you mock.
Dortmund is a fine city, but it doesn't register on the world scale like a lot of other cities. It's roughly the size of Louisville, Kentucky. It has a lot of soccer history, but nearly every city has more soccer history than US cities. If you want to base a cities ability to host by soccer history England would have hosted the first WC and every WC since. Dortmund is a fine city and was a deserving host in 2006, but if it were a US city, do you think it would host over San Francisco or Chicago? I don't think so.

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Charlotte and Nashville have their own cultures, and people are apparently quite taken by them if you look at migration rates. Both stadiums will be upgraded and/or replaced by 2022.

The southeast isn't a "weak" soccer area either. It's just ignored by MLS. The Southern USL teams are quite successful, and well respected among their peers. Charleston, Atlanta, and Raleigh (Cary) have special stadiums just for soccer, and Charlotte and Greensboro (Browns Summit) are building them.

It doesn't really have to be the biggest city. Japan hosted without Tokyo and the provincial cities like Oita, Kashima, and especially Niigata did a spectacular job.

Hartford's stadium can be expanded, and UConn has big dreams for their team. Giants Stadium (whatever the new one is called) won't fit a soccer pitch. There is one stadium in New York proper that can, Yankee Stadium, but that presents issues of it's own.
If you're tying to put on the best tournament possible, you want to host matches in your 12 biggest and most internationally renowned cities. If you want to give Charlotte a Nashville matches, who loses them? Miami? Dallas? Houston? DC? Boston? I don't think either Charlotte or Nashville would beat out a single one of those cities for the right to host. They're great cities, but not every great city can host.
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Old October 19th, 2008, 10:23 PM   #600
ryebreadraz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeimieLvr View Post
What is wrong with those cities? Birmingham people??? Pittsburgh people??? Speak up! Those are fine cities that can easily host a soccer game or two. Please.

You have a flawed logic, I'm sorry to tell you. No one is saying that we should limit ourselves, but there's no way you can tell me that one host country should be held to a higher standard than another. A standard is a minimum, not a limit - one can exceed a standard with effort, but should be held to the same minimum as other contestants.

I would have to see ratings numbers to believe that about the Olympics. It has such a wide variety of events that appeal to a broader audience - plus soccer. And again, you mean the world's largest SPORTING event. There are larger global events.
You've seen the rating numbers that nothing else even compares to the WC from a sporting event standpoint and I still say it's the biggest event, period. I've yet to hear you mention another event that's larger.

How is my logic flawed? FIFA expects us to put on the best tournament we can. Why would they hold us to a standard well below what we can do. S. Africa can't do anything close to what we can do. The WC is there to try and spread soccer and bring the WC to a continent that has not hosted it before. That is S. Africa's appeal. Our appeal is we can stage a tournament larger and grander than any other country so if we are granted the right to host that is what we must do. The standards change from host country to host country because there are different objectives with each WC. If the standard for the S. Africa WC is to spread soccer to a country an continent that has never hosted a WC before, should that be our standard too? No because we've hosted before and can't do something like that. Should S. Africa be held to the standard we set in '94 when the attendance was higher per game than any WC ever and luxury seating was better than anything before? No. Each nation has specific objectives when granted the right to host and our objective would be to host the largest and grandest WC ever so that is our standard.
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