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Old October 22nd, 2008, 08:47 PM   #661
berkshire royal
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I never understood why everyone goes so batshit over the World Cup. Its always the same teams in the championship anyway.

The World Cup has less drama then the NBA playoffs. They should get rid of the "group stage" and make the tournament more like the NCAA basketball tournament. Just my two cents, I reckon people will disagree.
OK this is in every sense completely wrong, I will try my best to explain why. Firstly there is always new teams getting in to the World Cup in 2006 8 teams qualified for the first time, in 2002 there was 4 and in 1998 another 4. That means that in the last 3 tournaments 16 teams qualified for the first time, long story short no the teams are never the same every tournament always has a different collection of teams.

The reason there is a group stage is simple, why have 4 years wait, 2 years of qualification only for it be all over after 1 match that would take away from the whole campaign experience of the World Cup. Every nation gets a proper crack at the tournament even if they fail to perform at the first hurdle. And the one off game makes for more stakes in every individual knock out game making out a tense and much more important affair.
The reality is the World Cup is completely different to anything else in sport and it is for that reason that it is the greatest sporting competition in the world.

On topic I would be all for a World Cup in the USA in 2022 the only problem for them would be that it could well follow on from a World Cup in England which would be a very huge task because I honestly feel a World Cup in England in 2018 would be the greatest show seen for sports hosting. It would face an even sterner challenge to what London 2012 has in trying to emulate Beijing 2008. Still you can’t go wrong when you have the stadiums that the US has in place.
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Old October 23rd, 2008, 06:52 AM   #662
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Soccer is vastly more popular as a spectator sport in the US than in 1994. Due directly to the World Cup and the founding of MLS (which was a requisite for receiving the games and was funded by the profits of the games).

1994, was an act of charity and a kick in the ass infrastructure wise at the same time (Kinda like South Africa and Brazil).
But 2022 wouldn't we would have competitive bid...no doubt about it. We could win it outright, too bad FIFA is about politics and bribes.

Theres no reason not to hold it here, other than blatant anti-Americanism and Eurocentric BS. "boo hoo, Europe should have every other World Cup or we're taking our ball home".

I mean, the whole "Americans won't fill up stadiums and will lead to bad atmpsphere" is blatant like. Just watch the Argentina vs USA game on youtube. Besides the atmosphere in most major tourneys is weak, nowhere near as good as club teams. Euro 2008 was a good example (all they sang was seven nation army...weak)and any game in Wembley as well.
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Old October 23rd, 2008, 07:31 AM   #663
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The Argentina vs USA at Giants Stadium friendly was one of the best games I have ever been to. Of the 80, 000 people, at least 20, 000 were there to support the USA. The stadium was electric. The 8 hour tailgate in 100 degree weather was incredible. That meaningless game was just a small taste of what meaningful WC games could offer us here in soccer savy America in 2022. We are light years ahread of where we were in 1994. The '94 WC was about briging the game back from the dead. A 2022 WC would be about revisiting the legacy of 1994, and seeing how far we've come in those years.
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Old October 23rd, 2008, 11:02 AM   #664
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It's more a hatred for Americ-A than Americ-ANS...I've seen it many times. Not many people in the world are dumb enough to hate individuals that they don't even know and know nothing about. But they do hate and envy (at the same time) the perceived excessive lifestyle in the U.S. - although when they come here and experience it, they invariably want to live here.

I've had good friends and co-workers from Canada, Mexico, Australia, New Zealand, Spain, England, etc...many of them had every complaint in the universe about American society and the things that they missed from home, but EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM either tried to live here permanently or at least extended their work contracts if possible for 3 more years. They hated it and loved it at the same time...
To be honest the USA lacks that international feel . The only city that comes close is New York but even that is way too american . Growing up with american culture and TV makes America eventually very boring . Its like the difference between living in a Cape Town suburb and the Cape Town CBD . Suburb = bland boring and "american" . CBD = interresting , international , a feast for the eyes , and very stimulating . I even consider a place like Dubai bland , boring and a place that cages in peoples "soul" .
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Old October 23rd, 2008, 10:34 PM   #665
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I hope no one misinterpreted my comment as being anti-American as I can tell you that was definitely not my intention. In fact I reckon a World Cup in the US would be great and in fact deserves one as it definitely is one of the best candidates.
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Old October 23rd, 2008, 11:10 PM   #666
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To be honest the USA lacks that international feel . The only city that comes close is New York but even that is way too american . Growing up with american culture and TV makes America eventually very boring . Its like the difference between living in a Cape Town suburb and the Cape Town CBD . Suburb = bland boring and "american" . CBD = interresting , international , a feast for the eyes , and very stimulating . I even consider a place like Dubai bland , boring and a place that cages in peoples "soul" .
ok, being that you dont live here no one can believe you have an ounce of credibility. Come here, live here, then make up your mind. Just because you grow up watching american tv shows doesnt say a thing about the US, unless you really think that everything that happens on TV is real.
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Old October 23rd, 2008, 11:17 PM   #667
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ok, being that you dont live here no one can believe you have an ounce of credibility. Come here, live here, then make up your mind. Just because you grow up watching american tv shows doesnt say a thing about the US, unless you really think that everything that happens on TV is real.
I always thought that if Ron Burgundy says it, its the truth. I guess I was wrong.
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Old October 24th, 2008, 08:04 AM   #668
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I live in America, Bloomington Indiana as part of an exchange student from my university back home and since i've been here I have to admit there isn't as much as what you called an "international feel" but then the U.S. has had a very condensed history and is rather isolated in a geographic sense. Made up of immigrants in a big boiling pot it's had to develop it's own culture, and unfortunately that culture doesn't seem to blend in well with the "international feel" (which is a bit ironic) from what i've experienced so far.

Saying that however since i've been here i've met a host of younger people all very interested in "soccer" who frequently tell me about the team they've adopted, and after getting to know some of them, the myth of Americans being completely ignorant about the rest of the world seems to be dying, a little. You do come across some idiots but the majority seem pretty accepting.

I think the U.S. hosting the World Cup could be a good thing, to add to what is a growing interest in the world's game (even further than '94), and as a some good international relations between the U.S. and everyone else. That has to be a positive thing surely?
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Old October 24th, 2008, 11:59 AM   #669
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ok, being that you dont live here no one can believe you have an ounce of credibility. Come here, live here, then make up your mind. Just because you grow up watching american tv shows doesnt say a thing about the US, unless you really think that everything that happens on TV is real.

TV might not be real but it tells you a lot about the underlying culture of that country. The way documentaries are shot and the angles that they look at . The things they focus on social commentary imbedded in it . Modern movies also strive for a degree of realism ( im not talking about scifi and fantasy ) . The same is true for South African and Brittish movies especially when it comes to documentary movies. Even reality shows tell you a lot about a countries culture . You should sometimes look more than skin deep ......
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Old October 24th, 2008, 04:21 PM   #670
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I live in America, Bloomington Indiana as part of an exchange student from my university back home and since i've been here I have to admit there isn't as much as what you called an "international feel" but then the U.S. has had a very condensed history and is rather isolated in a geographic sense. Made up of immigrants in a big boiling pot it's had to develop it's own culture, and unfortunately that culture doesn't seem to blend in well with the "international feel" (which is a bit ironic) from what i've experienced so far.

Saying that however since i've been here i've met a host of younger people all very interested in "soccer" who frequently tell me about the team they've adopted, and after getting to know some of them, the myth of Americans being completely ignorant about the rest of the world seems to be dying, a little. You do come across some idiots but the majority seem pretty accepting.

I think the U.S. hosting the World Cup could be a good thing, to add to what is a growing interest in the world's game (even further than '94), and as a some good international relations between the U.S. and everyone else. That has to be a positive thing surely?
Have you traveled outside of Bloomington, Indiana? Because if you are basing you opinion of America off of Indiana, then that's a terrible benchmark to use. Travel to cities like Chicago, Boston, San Francisco for example, and you will get a much more diverse and interesting experience than being in small town Indiana.
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Old October 24th, 2008, 06:54 PM   #671
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Have you traveled outside of Bloomington, Indiana? Because if you are basing you opinion of America off of Indiana, then that's a terrible benchmark to use. Travel to cities like Chicago, Boston, San Francisco for example, and you will get a much more diverse and interesting experience than being in small town Indiana.
As a matter of fact I have travelled and was varying my experiences. I've been to quite a few places since i've been here actually, the extreme's ranging from Chicago to Historic Bardstown, Kentucky. So i've had a diverse view so far.
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Old October 24th, 2008, 07:10 PM   #672
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Theres no reason not to hold it here, other than blatant anti-Americanism and Eurocentric BS. "boo hoo, Europe should have every other World Cup or we're taking our ball home".
That is just your small-minded america-centric view. The world, however, is much bigger than the USA. There are lots of countries capable of hosting it which are waiting much longer than the USA or would host it for the first time.
Join the queue at the back, wait another 30 years like anyone else and stop moaning. Passing the World Cup around is no anti-Americanism but the only way to please everybody.
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Last edited by flierfy; October 24th, 2008 at 07:13 PM. Reason: qweqrt
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Old October 24th, 2008, 07:10 PM   #673
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Originally Posted by matthemod View Post
I live in America, Bloomington Indiana as part of an exchange student from my university back home and since i've been here I have to admit there isn't as much as what you called an "international feel" but then the U.S. has had a very condensed history and is rather isolated in a geographic sense. Made up of immigrants in a big boiling pot it's had to develop it's own culture, and unfortunately that culture doesn't seem to blend in well with the "international feel" (which is a bit ironic) from what i've experienced so far.

Saying that however since i've been here i've met a host of younger people all very interested in "soccer" who frequently tell me about the team they've adopted, and after getting to know some of them, the myth of Americans being completely ignorant about the rest of the world seems to be dying, a little. You do come across some idiots but the majority seem pretty accepting.

I think the U.S. hosting the World Cup could be a good thing, to add to what is a growing interest in the world's game (even further than '94), and as a some good international relations between the U.S. and everyone else. That has to be a positive thing surely?
Jesus you drew the short straw didnt you, Bloomington, IN - I got to go to Boston on my placement year! I suppose it beats most places in England though!
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Old October 24th, 2008, 07:14 PM   #674
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Is it an "international feel" as much as it is remnants of centuries of European domination in other parts of the world?

North America was very different in comparison to the rest of the world in that it got to industrialize mostly on its own terms. Therefore, we did things in a different way than what the rest of the world considers normal.

Vive la difference
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Old October 24th, 2008, 07:17 PM   #675
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OK this is in every sense completely wrong, I will try my best to explain why. Firstly there is always new teams getting in to the World Cup in 2006 8 teams qualified for the first time, in 2002 there was 4 and in 1998 another 4. That means that in the last 3 tournaments 16 teams qualified for the first time, long story short no the teams are never the same every tournament always has a different collection of teams.

The reason there is a group stage is simple, why have 4 years wait, 2 years of qualification only for it be all over after 1 match that would take away from the whole campaign experience of the World Cup. Every nation gets a proper crack at the tournament even if they fail to perform at the first hurdle. And the one off game makes for more stakes in every individual knock out game making out a tense and much more important affair.
The reality is the World Cup is completely different to anything else in sport and it is for that reason that it is the greatest sporting competition in the world.
I know there are always different teams in the Cup'---but do they ever compete in the later rounds? Thats my complaint, its always the same "elite" teams like Brazil, Italy, France, Germany, Argentina, etc.

This is what I want to see. Ignore the NCAA teams on the right and the locations. A tournament structured like this would be the most exciting in my opinion. All of the teams listed is FIFA world ranks 1-32.

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Old October 24th, 2008, 08:30 PM   #676
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I know there are always different teams in the Cup'---but do they ever compete in the later rounds? Thats my complaint, its always the same "elite" teams like Brazil, Italy, France, Germany, Argentina, etc.

This is what I want to see. Ignore the NCAA teams on the right and the locations. A tournament structured like this would be the most exciting in my opinion. All of the teams listed is FIFA world ranks 1-32.

While this is an interesting proposition, it would never happen. Teams that quality for the WC do it over a period of a couple of years no 5 months like NCAA basketball teams. What a waste it would be to have a team take so long to quality, fly across the world, play one match, lose, and then have to go home. The NCAA tournament only works for college basketball and would not work well at all for the World Cup.


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As a matter of fact I have travelled and was varying my experiences. I've been to quite a few places since i've been here actually, the extreme's ranging from Chicago to Historic Bardstown, Kentucky. So i've had a diverse view so far.
Well what do you consider an internation feel? For a large city, Boston may be the most European in the country. Then again, this is America and we have our own way and own landscape much like Vienna is quite different than Lima, or Nagoya is different than Lisbon.
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Old October 24th, 2008, 09:00 PM   #677
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While this is an interesting proposition, it would never happen. Teams that quality for the WC do it over a period of a couple of years no 5 months like NCAA basketball teams. What a waste it would be to have a team take so long to quality, fly across the world, play one match, lose, and then have to go home. The NCAA tournament only works for college basketball and would not work well at all for the World Cup.

.
I don't think it would be that big of a waste. It would be less of waste though if the tournament wasn't every 4 years.

Qualification would determine seed rankings. A team like Brazil would have an incentive to win all its games in order to be a 1 seed--playing the lowest seed. An easier track to the finals playing a team like Japan, rather then against a more competitive team like France. Much like how an NCAA team like UCLA tries to win all its games (even though it will almost always make the tournament) in order to play a lower seed--as can be seen on the bracket.

I think this setup would give every game more of an important feel, unlike the boring group stages---that can a high scoring team can afford to lose one game. This is what makes the NCAA tournament the most exciting event in American sports. Its do or die. Any school on a given day can beat the major programs in NCAA tournament atmosphere. You don't have this in the World Cup because the powerhouse nations seldom have to play pressure games against huge underdogs. With my setup...every World Cup would have major upsets and more exciting games--with more varied, late rounds.
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Old October 24th, 2008, 09:13 PM   #678
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I know there are always different teams in the Cup'---but do they ever compete in the later rounds? Thats my complaint, its always the same "elite" teams like Brazil, Italy, France, Germany, Argentina, etc.
The tournaments format isn't meant to equal the likeliness of progressing. You wouldn't achieve that by a plain knock-out-format anyway. The outstanding records of some nation just reflect their superiority in size and their attitude towards this game. Each country is different. And so are their chances of lifting the Cup

By the way, those nations you named miss out the later rounds from time to time as well.
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Old October 24th, 2008, 09:32 PM   #679
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The tournaments format isn't meant to equal the likeliness of progressing. You wouldn't achieve that by a plain knock-out-format anyway. The outstanding records of some nation just reflect their superiority in size and their attitude towards this game. Each country is different. And so are their chances of lifting the Cup

By the way, those nations you named miss out the later rounds from time to time as well.
I think you would achieve that and that the games would be more exciting. With every game being a "knock out" game--the pressure is completely on the superior national teams. That will lead to more intense games and upsets--which is what gives tournament setups their edge.

The group stage sucks.
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Old October 24th, 2008, 09:45 PM   #680
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I think you would achieve that and that the games would be more exciting. With every game being a "knock out" game--the pressure is completely on the superior national teams. That will lead to more intense games and upsets--which is what gives tournament setups their edge.

The group stage sucks.
The World Cup happens every 4 years. If it happened every year, I would say a single elimination tournament would work and be good. But it doesn't happen every year like the NCAA tournament. How would you rank the teams? Using their FIFA ranking? If so, that could be a flawed system.

There are a fair share of upsets and surprises in the WC. Look back to 2002 when Portugal didn't make the round of 16 and the US made it to the quarterfinals. Or in 2006 when you had both the Ukraine and Switzerland maiking the round of 16.
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