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Old June 2nd, 2009, 12:28 PM   #1121
ryebreadraz
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Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
Ticket sales are not FIFAs business. They get their money solely from broadcasting rights and sponsorships deals. It doesn't make a difference for them whether a ground holds 45'000 seats or 90'000.

Wrong. Roofs are an essential part of a football ground. They have a significant impact on attendance figures and noise level. There is simply no good football ground whose stands aren't covered.
Camp Nou only has one stand covered. Does that make it 1/4 of a good ground?
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 03:01 PM   #1122
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Originally Posted by ryebreadraz View Post
Camp Nou only has one stand covered. Does that make it 1/4 of a good ground?
Yes it does ! That's why it will be covered !
If it doesn't, they wouldn't pay for this refurbishment !!

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Originally Posted by en1044 View Post
Sorry, they arent.

If they were that important, they would have been "essential" for the past hundred years in stadiums all around the world. They weren't.
I already know your point of view, but, in certain regions, stadiums are covered since almost a century.. You're right when you're saying that is pretty new in southern/sunny countries (because also of the cost), but, in Paris or some French regions for example (even in Bordeaux, southern France), stadiums had roofs since the 30's or 20's, some stadiums were partially covered (because of the cost), and some few others were entirely (like the old Parc des Princes).

Bordeaux, Parc Lescure, opened in 1924 (first stadium in the world entierly covered without any pillar in the tiers)


Paris, Parc des Princes, opened in 1897 (covered since 1932)


Paris, Stade Olympique de Colombes, opened in 1907 (partially covered since 1920)




So, I think the main reason is the cost, the second one is technology, because it wasn't easy to cover all stands in the mid 20's....

AND there is also the American "cultural" exception....

Last edited by parcdesprinces; June 2nd, 2009 at 03:08 PM.
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 06:26 PM   #1123
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Can we just avoid this debate again for the millionth time...
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 08:05 PM   #1124
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Originally Posted by en1044 View Post
Sorry, they arent.

If they were that important, they would have been "essential" for the past hundred years in stadiums all around the world. They weren't.

Try telling someone in Green Bay that a roof needs to be added to Lambeau Field in order for it to be a "proper" stadium. They'll laugh at you.

So let me rephrase. Roofs are not necessary in this country.
I agree that roofs are not necessary. If anything, they can hurt teams. Minnesota needs to get out of their dome and into the elements. One of the single biggest home field advantages a team can have is the weather. There really is no way to simulate 10 degrees with high winds. You cans simulate loud crowd noise, but you cannot simulate the cold weather.

The only sport that could possibly need a roof would be baseball seeing as how they don't play in the rain or snow.
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 08:16 PM   #1125
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Originally Posted by massp88 View Post
I agree that roofs are not necessary. If anything, they can hurt teams. Minnesota needs to get out of their dome and into the elements. One of the single biggest home field advantages a team can have is the weather. There really is no way to simulate 10 degrees with high winds. You cans simulate loud crowd noise, but you cannot simulate the cold weather.

The only sport that could possibly need a roof would be baseball seeing as how they don't play in the rain or snow.
Domes are a different animal all together. There's a total disconnect from nature inside a dome. I agree with the Euros in that roofs are preferable, but I also agree with the Yanks in that roofs are not always necessary. [Rodney King]Can't we all just get along????[/Rodney King]
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 08:17 PM   #1126
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10 degrees isn't cold...

Home "field" advantage (based on weather conditions) is only important in country/continents like the US, where you have such diverse climates and conditions... In Europe most teams in the same league have exactly the same climate, and even the "hot" places it gets cold and rainy in winter.

However i think the last post is missing what a roof is. It covers the fans not the playing field. Therefore home "field" advantage wouldn't be dimished.

In all reality it is a nothing debate and pointless. Europeans like roofs because we have become used to them, americans don't see the need for roofs as they have become used to not having them...
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 10:32 PM   #1127
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Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
10 degrees isn't cold...
I believe he meant 10 degrees fahrenheit which is about -12 degrees centigrade. Add wind and that's cooooold!
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 11:17 PM   #1128
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fahrenheit... what is this primitive temperature scale?
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Old June 3rd, 2009, 02:00 AM   #1129
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Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
10 degrees isn't cold...

Home "field" advantage (based on weather conditions) is only important in country/continents like the US, where you have such diverse climates and conditions... In Europe most teams in the same league have exactly the same climate, and even the "hot" places it gets cold and rainy in winter.

However i think the last post is missing what a roof is. It covers the fans not the playing field. Therefore home "field" advantage wouldn't be dimished.

In all reality it is a nothing debate and pointless. Europeans like roofs because we have become used to them, americans don't see the need for roofs as they have become used to not having them...
I'm betting that you knew he was speaking in fahrenheit.

Should the US get the world cup, some of the stadia will have roofs, but not all of them will.
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Old June 3rd, 2009, 02:10 AM   #1130
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I'm betting that you knew he was speaking in fahrenheit.
you think...
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Old June 3rd, 2009, 06:32 AM   #1131
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Americans are so tough because we sit in shitty weather and pretend to like it! Yay!
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Old June 3rd, 2009, 08:40 AM   #1132
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Americans are so tough because we sit in shitty weather and pretend to like it! Yay!
Pretend?
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Old June 3rd, 2009, 04:51 PM   #1133
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I have another question, why your new stadiums with retractable roofs stay with the stands covered when the roof is open (Dallas, Phoenix, Indianapolis etc) ???

You could have roofs which could be entierely opened, like in Toronto, for example ???


Another point is about Qwest Field, where main stands are covered (for the most expensive tickets), but not end-zone stands....just like many stadiums in Europe in the past (and still today for many of them)...

Are you telling that only the wealthiest Americans don't like rain unlike the other ones ?????

I thought all americans love the real weather conditions for a football game ???

Apparently this rule is not right for everybody, that's why there are roofs over business seats and also skyboxs which are completely disconnected with the rest of the tiers..

I think many teams owners simply care about who spends most, and don't care about the rest of fans, because they (owners and friends) are protected of the bad weather...

Last edited by parcdesprinces; June 3rd, 2009 at 05:01 PM.
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Old June 3rd, 2009, 05:14 PM   #1134
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Originally Posted by parcdesprinces View Post
I have another question, why your new stadiums with retractable roofs stay with the stands covered when the roof is open (Dallas, Phoenix, Indianapolis etc) ???

You could have roofs which could be entierely opened, like in Toronto, for example ???


Another point is about Qwest Field, where main stands are covered (for the most expensive tickets), but not end-zone stands....just like many stadiums in Europe in the past (and still today for many of them)...

Are you telling that only the wealthiest Americans don't like rain unlike the other ones ?????

I thought all americans love the real weather conditions for a football game ???

Apparently this rule is not right for everybody, that's why there are roofs over business seats and also skyboxs which are completely disconnected with the rest of the tiers..

I think many teams owners simply care about who spends most, and don't care about the rest of fans, because they (owners and friends) are protected of the bad weather...
It's far cheaper to build a retractable roof that doesn't slide completely off. The SkyDome roof still has portions of the stands covered, but the kinds of roofs used by Indianapolis and Phoenix are far cheaper to build. If you take the roof off of the entire place, there's nowhere for the roof to rest. The way the stadiums are built, the roof can rest on the portion covered the stands and it doesn't require as many tracks or as large a motor to operate it.

With regards to Seattle's Qwest Field, the owner, Paul Allen, spent a lot of time working with engineers to make the place as loud as possible. Qwest Field replaced a domed stadium and some expected another one to be built, but he and his engineers found that Qwest Field, as built, would provide a louder stadium. Seattle is also a unique case in that it doesn't provide pleasant weather or weather commonly associated with football. It's a weather similar to England, so the roof makes sense, but I can't think of a region outside of the northwest that provides that type of weather.
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Old June 3rd, 2009, 05:35 PM   #1135
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For Seattle, if the weather is so bad for the fans (I mean it's the same weather for all fans), why didn't they built a roof over all stands ????

About a roof which can be entierely opened, I have a cheaper example, OK in another scale, but it could be transposed for US Football stadia.. Because you like to see the sky..



Roland Garros new centre court (the roof, the pillars AND the glass walls are retractable) :


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Old June 3rd, 2009, 06:15 PM   #1136
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Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
Ticket sales are not FIFAs business. They get their money solely from broadcasting rights and sponsorships deals. It doesn't make a difference for them whether a ground holds 45'000 seats or 90'000.
Since when? FIFA sells the tickets, not DFB, not SA's federation, not USSF. They control the ticket revenue. The lowest price for a WC ticket is about 60 euros. At that price, the difference between 45'000 and 90'000 seats is about 2'700'000 euros! At 48 group stage matches alone you're talking about 129'600'000 euros. This is a low ball figure. Are you realistically telling me that FIFA is going to overlook 150'000'000 euro in revenue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
Wrong. Roofs are an essential part of a football ground. They have a significant impact on attendance figures and noise level. There is simply no good football ground whose stands aren't covered.
Give me a link to a FIFA criteria where roofs are a required part of the stadium.
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Old June 3rd, 2009, 09:58 PM   #1137
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Since when? FIFA sells the tickets, not DFB, not SA's federation, not USSF. They control the ticket revenue. The lowest price for a WC ticket is about 60 euros. At that price, the difference between 45'000 and 90'000 seats is about 2'700'000 euros! At 48 group stage matches alone you're talking about 129'600'000 euros. This is a low ball figure. Are you realistically telling me that FIFA is going to overlook 150'000'000 euro in revenue?
No, the organisation committee of the domestic FA sells the tickets (well, the small fraction of tickets that gets sold at all) and covers some expenses with the money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by metros11 View Post
Give me a link to a FIFA criteria where roofs are a required part of the stadium.
FIFA doesn't care about football. But I do and hundreds of millions of football fans do. We all want covered stands.
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Last edited by flierfy; June 3rd, 2009 at 11:29 PM.
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Old June 3rd, 2009, 10:24 PM   #1138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parcdesprinces View Post
For Seattle, if the weather is so bad for the fans (I mean it's the same weather for all fans), why didn't they built a roof over all stands ????

About a roof which can be entierely opened, I have a cheaper example, OK in another scale, but it could be transposed for US Football stadia.. Because you like to see the sky..



Roland Garros new centre court (the roof, the pillars AND the glass walls are retractable) :


That place is much, much smaller that a football stadium, so its easier to cover the whole thing. From an engineering perspective, its almost impossible to build a retractable roof stadium that opens up completely at a reasonable price.

Seattle did play in a completely covered stadium...the Kingdome, and it was horrible.
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Old June 3rd, 2009, 11:11 PM   #1139
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FIFA doesn't care about football. But I do and hundreds of millions of football fans do. And they want covered stands.
Using not demanding convered stands as reason for FIFA not caring about football is just a tad off, don't you think... surely you could think of better examples to win your argument...
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Old June 4th, 2009, 11:08 AM   #1140
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California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger Joins Team to Bring FIFA World Cup to United States in 2018 or 2022

NEW YORK (June 2, 2009) – California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, whose years of public service have been rooted in great part by his dedication to sports and fitness, today accepted an invitation to join the Board of Directors for the USA Bid Committee in its endeavor to bring the FIFA World Cup to the United States in 2018 or 2022.

As governor of California, the most populous state in the U.S. with a significant history of playing host to FIFA World Cup men’s and women’s matches, Schwarzenegger will play an influential role as a member of the Board of Directors as the USA Bid Committee prepares its application and campaign to bring the world’s largest sporting event to the United States.

"Soccer is the world's most popular sport and California has been home to some of its most exciting games, and I am proud to be a part of bringing the World Cup back to the United States," said Governor Schwarzenegger. "The millions of fans from around the globe that will travel to the United States to cheer their teams will prove a great benefit for our state, our nation and the world of soccer."

“Governor Schwarzenegger is a passionate and committed leader in all the projects he takes on,” said Sunil Gulati, the Chairman of the USA Bid Committee and President of U.S. Soccer. “California is a soccer state in every sense of the word, with participation and avid support at all levels, from its vast youth system to the professional ranks. We look forward to working with Governor Schwarzenegger in our effort to bring the World Cup back to the United States in 2018 or 2022.”

Globally as well as nationally, California has been central to the United States’ profile in soccer. For example:
  • The FIFA World Cup championship match in 1994 between Italy and champion Brazil was held in the Rose Bowl in Pasadena, Calif., as was the title match for the women’s FIFA World Cup in 1999 won by the U.S. over China.
  • The women’s World Cup returned to the United States in 2003, where again the title was decided in California, this time with a victory by Germany over Sweden at the Home Depot Center in Carson, Calif.
  • Numerous Men’s and Women’s FIFA World Cup matches have been played in Carson (The Home Depot Center), Pasadena (Rose Bowl), Palo Alto (Stanford Stadium) and San Jose (Spartan Stadium), including three World Cup finals: The 1994 FIFA World Cup final between Italy and champion Brazil was played at the Rose Bowl, the 1999 Women’s FIFA World Cup final won by the U.S. against China was played at the Rose Bowl, and the 2003 FIFA Women’s World Cup final between Germany and Sweden was played at The Home Depot Center.
  • In 2003, U.S. Soccer’s National Training Center at The Home Depot Center opened in Carson, Calif., and is the home for U.S. national teams at all levels from Under-14 to the full Men’s and Women’s National Teams. The NTC stands as one of the great achievements in U.S. Soccer history and has established itself as the center of the soccer world in the United States.
  • Los Angeles is the only city that is home to two clubs in Major League Soccer - the L.A. Galaxy and Chivas USA. Both clubs share The Home Depot Center as their home stadium.
  • California has also been host to international friendlies and marquee events such as Major League Soccer’s All-Star Game and MLS Cup matches, and the recent inaugural match for the new Women’s Professional Soccer league.
  • The first-ever U.S. Soccer Development Academy Showcase was held at the U.S. NTC in 2007, along with the 2008 Development Academy Finals Week. The 2009 Development Academy Finals Week will also be held at the U.S. NTC, from July 10-19.
Also, six stadiums in California are among 58 venues in the United States that are under consideration to play host to FIFA World Cup matches in 2018 or 2022 – the Rose Bowl, Stanford Stadium, Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum, Qualcomm Stadium in San Diego, Memorial Stadium in Berkeley and Oakland-Alameda County Stadium in Oakland. No other state has as many as six stadiums in the running.

In 1994, the U.S. used nine stadiums – including the Rose Bowl and Stanford Stadium – to host the FIFA World Cup, which then featured a 24-team and 52-match format compared to today’s field of 32 nations competing in 64 matches. Despite the smaller field and schedule of matches in 1994, the United States set an overall attendance mark of 3,587,538, a record that broke the previous tournament mark by more than one million fans and still stands today.

The United States is one of nine candidate nations that have formally declared their desire to host the FIFA World Cup in 2018 or 2022. The others are Australia, England, Indonesia, Japan, Mexico and Russia, with joint bids from Netherlands-Belgium and Portugal-Spain. Qatar and South Korea have applied only as candidates to play host to the tournament in 2022.

All candidates must have their bid applications to FIFA by May 14, 2010. FIFA’s 24 member Executive Committee will study the bids, conduct site visits and name the two hosts for the 2018 and 2022 tournaments in December 2010, completing a 21-month bid and review process.

Gov. Schwarzenegger joins the Board of Directors of the USA Bid Committee that recently welcomed U.S. National Team icons Landon Donovan and Mia Hamm, as well as former U.S. Secretary of State Henry A. Kissinger. In the months ahead the USA Bid Committee will add additional national leaders from the sectors of sports, entertainment, government and business.

The USA Bid Committee’s efforts also recently earned the support of President Barack Obama, who has reached out to FIFA – the world's governing body of soccer – to endorse the efforts to bring the world’s largest sporting event back to the United States. In a letter to FIFA President Joseph “Sepp” Blatter and U.S. Soccer President Sunil Gulati, President Obama noted the role soccer played in his life as a youth, and its ability to unite people, communities and nations from every continent.

“Hosting another successful World Cup is important for the continued growth of the sport in the United States. And it is important to me personally,” President Obama wrote in his letter. “As a child, I played soccer on a dirt road in Jakarta, and the game brought the children of my neighborhood together. As a father, I saw that same spirit of unity alive on the fields and sidelines of my own daughters’ soccer games in Chicago.”

“Soccer is truly the world’s sport, and the World Cup promotes camaraderie and friendly competition across the globe,” President Obama added. “That is why this bid is about much more than a game. It is about the United States of America inviting the world to gather all across our great country in celebration of our common hopes and dreams.”

President Obama echoed those sentiments last month in an exclusive Univision interview conducted at the White House by renowned journalist Jorge Ramos. President Obama’s comments can be viewed at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeCZO...e=channel_page.

ABOUT U.S. SOCCER:
Founded in 1913, U.S. Soccer has helped chart the course for soccer in the USA for more than 95 years as the governing body of the sport. In this time, the Federation’s mission statement has been simple and clear: to make soccer, in all its forms, a pre-eminent sport in the United States and to continue the development of soccer at all recreational and competitive levels. To that end, the sport’s growth in the past two decades has been nothing short of remarkable as U.S. Soccer’s National Teams have continually succeeded on the world stage while also growing the game here in the United States with the support of its members. For more information, visit ussoccer.com.

ABOUT THE USA BID COMMITTEE INC.:
The USA Bid Committee is a non-profit organization created to prepare a successful application to host the FIFA World Cup™ in 2018 or 2022 on behalf of the United States Soccer Federation. The Bid Committee will submit its comprehensive bid to FIFA by May 2010, with FIFA’s 24 member Executive Committee making a decision in December 2010. Members of the USA Bid Committee include Executive Director David Downs, U.S. Soccer President and USA Bid Committee Chairman Sunil Gulati, U.S. Soccer CEO and General Secretary Dan Flynn, U.S. Men’s National Team player Landon Donovan, U.S. Women’s National Team former player Mia Hamm, Major League Soccer Commissioner Don Garber, former U.S. Secretary of State Dr. Henry Kissinger, former Democratic National Committee National Finance Chair Philip Murphy, and former Goldman Sachs Vice Chairman (Asia) Carlos Cordeiro.
http://www.ussoccer.com/articles/vie..._14647296.html
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