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Old January 13th, 2010, 06:42 AM   #1801
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When trying to figure which is the best way to convince FIFA to do another WC in the States, there are times when ordinary folks like myself and those mucky-mucks who make up the various bid committees appear as if we are on different planets. Now, I don't have an urban planning degree, a Ph.D in economics nor an engineering background. What I believe I have is general common sense. For a long time, we've been coasting it in that we treat big sporting events like the Olympics and World Cup like "show events" complete with "show sponsors", pageantry, orchestras, emcees and dancing musicians and stars. That worked when first employed. However, with each successive big event, the strategy slowly became a mockery of itself.

Signs of warning were evident. First there was the Opening Ceremony in 1994, with Diana Ross missing the "penalty" that had to caused laughter in many quarters. Then there were the problems that plagued Atlanta '96 (I won't pin the Olympic Park bombing on them, though. That was a lone nut and can happen to anyone), from confusion about travel to even the Olympic torch. After that was the controversy surrounding the Salt Lake City '02 games, the scandal created by the allegations of bribery. On top of that, Utah isn't exactly the epitome of culture, even though it is a relatively safe, conservative state. With that still fresh memory of the controversy, it became apparent that the States have lost its luster as a destination for big-name sporting events. The failures of the NYC '12 and the Chicago '16 bids brought this point home.

If anyone thinks that the problems with the USOC and the potential loss of the WC 2022 bid are unrelated, then I can't help you. They have everything to do with perception, reputation, competence and forward vision. For the U.S. bid to overcome the negative momentum, they need to do two things right away: 1. Raise funds to cover expenses necessary for the guarantee of security, preparation of venues and spectator access to the matches; and 2. Put forward a simplified list of cities that are most likely to attract spectators who are truly interested in the game, including immigrants and sophisticated fans. From the list presented by the bid committee, it seems that they are attempting to use 2022 WC to promote tourism rather being a host of the World's Game! For example, what does Nashville and KC have that Chicago doesn't have? Can you tell me? OK, I can think of the Grand 'Ol Opry and Dolly Parton but any country-western music fan would go there regardless of whether there's a sahhh-kkerrr match going on or not. Second point: OK, I can go with dropping Detroit and Oakland but Tampa??? All they care about over there is that other football and college football and high school football, yeah, even pee-wee football. There is already a place where there are people generally interested in futbol and that's Miami. Go there. Put a roof on that stadium if necessary.

Speaking of which, the third point, why hasn't the bid committee not even gone to the folks in charge of the stadium there and say "Hey, we'll help you put up a cover roof over the spectators in exchange for a cut in ticket sales/suite revenues for xxx years?" There's nothing in the bid that says anything about raising funds to cover things like paying to expand the playing field, adding temporary seats, fixing up the concourses, etc.. They're all banking on someone else, meaning us paying for all that and then swooping in to take over the venues for a few days. Cheapskates! Why not go to the Philly, Chicago and one more city and say "We'd like to find a solution and we'll pay for much of it, in exchange for a cut in ticket sales"? Commit to paying to widen the field in the Philly stadium and then put those aisles back in after the Cup. That's how it should be done! You want to put on a big event, you gotta put up the money.

The list of cities should be pretty simple. They should include the following:
NY, Philly, Foxboro, Chicago, Miami, LA, SF, Houston, Washington D.C.. That's already the minimum and include such fancy things as culture, history, tradition, as well as proximity to fans. If you need more venues, I can go with Seattle and maybe San Diego, Minneapolis, Arlington or Baltimore. Go with cities that are teeming with fans. Spend $$$ to upgrade or expand venues when necessary. That's how it should be done.

The bid committee f'ed it up, big time! Australia will win 2022!
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Old January 13th, 2010, 07:26 AM   #1802
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Well, I guess those guys who wanted a roof to avoid sunburn/rain will now get to enjoy beautiful and exciting Indianapolis and avoid this hellish view from Soldier Field. YOU WIN! Enjoy your connection flight in O'hare.



**** it, if I have to travel to see a WC game, I might as well follow my team. I'll see you guys in LA/Miami.
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Old January 13th, 2010, 07:27 AM   #1803
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Quote:
http://sports.yahoo.com/soccer/news?...v=ap&type=lgns

Chicago, San Francisco get World Cup boot
By RONALD BLUM, AP Sports Writer
26 minutes ago

NEW YORK (AP)—Chicago’s World Cup bid met the same fate as its tilt at the Olympics when it was dropped Tuesday from U.S. plans for the 2018 or 2022 World Cup.

Americans organizers selected 21 stadiums in 18 metropolitan areas to submit in their bid book to FIFA in May.

Also left off was San Francisco, but organizers said the Bay Area could return to contention if the 49ers get a new stadium in Santa Clara. Others not making the cut included Cleveland; Detroit; Jacksonville, Florida and St. Louis.

Chicago, beaten by Rio de Janeiro for the 2016 Olympics in October, has virtually no chance of getting back in consideration. That was a major surprise, given that Soldier Field hosted the 1994 World Cup opener.

“I think there’s a little Olympic fatigue. I think the Park District had a tough time wrestling with FIFA requirements in short order after the IOC decision,” U.S. Soccer Federation president Sunil Gulati said.

Gulati also cited the 61,000 capacity of renovated Solider Field for World Cup soccer.

“It would have been by about 10 percent the smallest stadium,” Gulati said
.

Stanford Stadium south of San Francisco, also a 1994 World Cup site, and the Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum had been among 32 stadiums in contention before 11 were trimmed Tuesday. Other 1994 World Cup sites dropped were Washington’s RFK Stadium and the Citrus Bowl in Orlando, Fla.

Eighteen metropolitan areas and 21 stadiums survived the cut and will be part of the bid when FIFA’s executive committee votes on Dec. 2 in Zurich.

The 18 metropolitan areas have stadiums in Atlanta; Baltimore; Dallas-Arlington, Texas; Denver; East Rutherford, New Jersey; Foxboro, Massachusetts; Glendale, Arizona; Houston; Indianapolis, Missouri; Kansas City, Missouri; Landover, Maryland; Los Angeles-Pasadena, California; Miami; Nashville, Tennessee; Philadelphia; San Diego; Seattle; and Tampa, Florida.

Gulati said they 18 stadiums would create an average capacity of 78,000 and allow the sale of a record 5 million tickets. The 1994 tournament in the U.S. set World Cup records with 3.59 million total attendance and an average of 68,991.

FIFA’s rules call for nine to 12 stadiums to be picked. David Downs, U.S. bid executive director, said he hoped the governing body could be persuaded to expand the final list to 14.

AP Sports Writer Janie McCauley contributed to this report.
...
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Old January 13th, 2010, 07:45 AM   #1804
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Gulati also cited the 61,000 capacity of renovated Solider Field for World Cup soccer.

“It would have been by about 10 percent the smallest stadium,” Gulati said
.
OK. It may be a bit on the "small" side for that metropolitan area but that's still a $8▲t reason to drop it from consideration. Even Stanford stadium is OK by my book. The "bigger is always better" mentality shown by the bid committee is baffling. Who cares about hitting the 5 million mark? Put the matches closest to where the futbol fans are!

Quote:
Also left off was San Francisco, but organizers said the Bay Area could return to contention if the 49ers get a new stadium in Santa Clara.
SD as a placeholder for SF? That is my take from this. I don't know. The Murph may be a little old but with a little fixing up it'd be fine for the World Cup.
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Old January 13th, 2010, 07:51 AM   #1805
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The Chargers should get their new stadium by then.

Still SF should bump them regardless if the 49ers get their stadium done.
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Old January 13th, 2010, 08:22 AM   #1806
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San Francisco doesn't have a suitable venue. How hard is that to understand? Only Chicago got jobbed; San Francisco just doesn't measure up. San Diego is plenty big and plenty attractive.
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Old January 13th, 2010, 01:06 PM   #1807
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I think that SF can have suitable venue built till 2018/2022... if South Africa could built 8 new stadiums in 5 years, and Angola 4 new stadiums in 2.5 years, also USA can build at least one...

USA will get World Cup

p.s. but I, personally, prefer SD more then SF
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Old January 13th, 2010, 01:54 PM   #1808
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I can't believe Chicago has not been picked, its the 3rd biggest city in America, surely they could expand Soldier Field. Also a 60,000 seat stadium is not small, especially if you compare it's size with other stadiums since 1998 W.C. I hope they come to their senses and let it back in the bid along with San Fransisco.
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Old January 13th, 2010, 02:42 PM   #1809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobo View Post
I can't believe Chicago has not been picked, its the 3rd biggest city in America, surely they could expand Soldier Field. Also a 60,000 seat stadium is not small, especially if you compare it's size with other stadiums since 1998 W.C. I hope they come to their senses and let it back in the bid along with San Fransisco.
I dont possibly see how they could expand Soldier Field.
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Old January 13th, 2010, 03:10 PM   #1810
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Chicago is out, what a shock. Esp. if you consider that they hosted 1994 WC's opening match. 61,000 is enough to hold a semifinal according to the current FIFA guidelines, but, apparently, the U.S. will bring the huge attendances from 1994 as their big argument to convince FIFA executives. That might be pretty effective.

PS: the Rose Bowl will need some serious refurbishment if the U.S. gets the hosting rights. There is apparently not enough (if any) VIP seating, and I'm pretty sure FIFA will require a roof in the stadium of the final game.
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Old January 13th, 2010, 03:56 PM   #1811
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimbanha View Post
Chicago is out, what a shock. Esp. if you consider that they hosted 1994 WC's opening match. 61,000 is enough to hold a semifinal according to the current FIFA guidelines, but, apparently, the U.S. will bring the huge attendances from 1994 as their big argument to convince FIFA executives. That might be pretty effective.

PS: the Rose Bowl will need some serious refurbishment if the U.S. gets the hosting rights. There is apparently not enough (if any) VIP seating, and I'm pretty sure FIFA will require a roof in the stadium of the final game.
If the US is chosen for 2022 WC, it would have only few works to do to meet FIFA's requirements for the US. LA, Washington DC could be only concerned by works.
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Old January 13th, 2010, 04:21 PM   #1812
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Originally Posted by ryebreadraz View Post
I think he means Glendale/Phoenix. All the same market. I guess we just have to agree to disagree because I think they would fill 70,000+.
My mistake, I always forget that the new building is in Glendale.

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Originally Posted by Bobby3 View Post
All of the matches will be sell outs. I think people forget just how massive Phoenix is, it's the fifth biggest city in the country.
Like Rye said above, we will just have to agree to disagree. I cannot see Phoenix seeing over 72,000 for the matches they host (if selected) unless the U.S. or Mexico were playing there.
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Old January 13th, 2010, 04:24 PM   #1813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimbanha View Post
Chicago is out, what a shock. Esp. if you consider that they hosted 1994 WC's opening match. 61,000 is enough to hold a semifinal according to the current FIFA guidelines, but, apparently, the U.S. will bring the huge attendances from 1994 as their big argument to convince FIFA executives. That might be pretty effective.

PS: the Rose Bowl will need some serious refurbishment if the U.S. gets the hosting rights. There is apparently not enough (if any) VIP seating, and I'm pretty sure FIFA will require a roof in the stadium of the final game.
Is the Rose Bowl the final chosen venue for LA? If not, I am sure the new football stadium that will be built will have enough VIP seating. As far as roofs go, at the current moment, NYC, LA and Washington, D.C. (I think the most likely final choices) don't have roofed stadiums.

Quote:
Originally Posted by en1044 View Post
I dont possibly see how they could expand Soldier Field.
Nor do I. It's sad though that Chicago won't get to host. It's an amazing city and has a diverse population, as well as a ton of name recognition the world over.
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Old January 13th, 2010, 06:17 PM   #1814
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Originally Posted by massp88 View Post
My mistake, I always forget that the new building is in Glendale.



Like Rye said above, we will just have to agree to disagree. I cannot see Phoenix seeing over 72,000 for the matches they host (if selected) unless the U.S. or Mexico were playing there.
Depends, classics like Germany-Italy, Brazil-Argentina or England-France etc, etc..can easily be sold out, the WC draws people from all over the world.
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Old January 13th, 2010, 07:35 PM   #1815
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Originally Posted by massp88 View Post
Like Rye said above, we will just have to agree to disagree. I cannot see Phoenix seeing over 72,000 for the matches they host (if selected) unless the U.S. or Mexico were playing there.
You underestimate the amount of fans who attend from outside the immediate area. It's the FIFA World Cup, guy.
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Old January 13th, 2010, 08:29 PM   #1816
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Originally Posted by Bobby3 View Post
All of the matches will be sell outs. I think people forget just how massive Phoenix is, it's the fifth biggest city in the country.
Top 12 metro area population estimates (for July 1, 2008) from the Census Bureau -

NYC - 19.0M
LA - 12.8M
CHI - 9.6M
DFW - 6.3M
PHI - 5.8M
HOU - 5.7M
MIA - 5.4M
ATL - 5.4M
DC - 5.4M
BOS - 4.5
DET - 4.4
PHX - 4.3
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Old January 13th, 2010, 08:54 PM   #1817
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Before everyone here freaks out over cities, venues and events, please read the following blog post:

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/blog.php?b=7421

I think this guys makes some good points some of you should listen to.
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Old January 13th, 2010, 09:10 PM   #1818
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Originally Posted by krudmonk View Post
You underestimate the amount of fans who attend from outside the immediate area. It's the FIFA World Cup, guy.
I understand it's the World Cup. I have been to 3 World Cups, guy.

You are not going to see 30,000 Croatians, both from the U.S. and abroad flock to Indianapolis to watch Croatia play.


Answer this then, why, in 1994, did every game in the US not sellout? Don't bother making the, oh that was almost 16 years ago argument. Look at the attendance figures.....stadiums were not sold out.
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Old January 13th, 2010, 09:11 PM   #1819
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnerJacket View Post
Top 12 metro area population estimates (for July 1, 2008) from the Census Bureau -

NYC - 19.0M
LA - 12.8M
CHI - 9.6M
DFW - 6.3M
PHI - 5.8M
HOU - 5.7M
MIA - 5.4M
ATL - 5.4M
DC - 5.4M
BOS - 4.5
DET - 4.4
PHX - 4.3
1. New York City, New York - 8,363,710
2. Los Angeles, California - 3,833,995
3. Chicago, Illinois - 2,853,114
4. Houston, Texas - 2,242,193
5. Phoenix, Arizona - 1,567,924

I said city.
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Old January 13th, 2010, 09:18 PM   #1820
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Originally Posted by Bobby3 View Post
I said city.
Fair enough, I should've done better than assume where you were coming from. But it does stand to reason that when considering market size for an event of this scale, metro populations play a far greater factor than simply municipal populations. Otherwise you're reasoning implies PHX has notably greater value than places like Philly, DC or DFW, when I'd argue is quite the opposite. But I'll leave the semantics at that.

- - - -

Re: CHI being dropped
While I'm sure the venue size had something to do with it, I can't imagine that being the full logic behind the decision. Soldier field has an abundance of suites and Chi-town is a tourist attraction, meaning they'd likely easily sell it out for big $ (far more than, say, Indy or Nashville) and have the city available for promotions. Even if they just use it for group stage matches.

I'm thinking the talk about compartmentalizing the event is taking hold and ultimately they felt Chicago did not have any equally appealing partner cities since Cleveland, Detroit and St. Louis were also cut. Looking at what's left it simply feels like the upper midwest might be sacrificed so as to economize fan travel (pending the final selections, of course).

Still, you have to wonder if this has given the folks behind Soldier Field another reason to ponder why they didn't build bigger.*

Other thoughts:

- Folks with Orlando's Citrus Sports Authority must be disappointed. The WC berth was one item being touted to garner support for a major renovation to the Citrus Bowl Stadium. While that remains a possibility, this is one less potential asset to include in sales pitches. Yet, ironically...

- ...San Diego, with their similar stadium situation, remains eligible?!! Clearly they're in the running as both a tourist draw and possible travel partner with LA, and obviously Qualcomm meets the min. standards, but since they'd obviously prefer to see this venue upgraded why is the potential here any greater than Orlando?

- I touted Nashville as an underdog early and they're still in the running! Granted, I'm sure a lot of it has to do with being a partner to another solid option like ATL, but I think there is real appeal in selling Nashville as decidedly American in flavor, something tourists should appreciate. LP Field is nice too.

- Indianapolis? But not Cleveland or Chicago?!!! Really?

- * Soldier Field can be expanded at either end, but at comparably high cost and would require either the relocation or sacrifice of some suites and/or the video boards. Granted, this might also distort the architecture of the revised structure and the cost may not be worth it since the new seats would also be the cheapest ones offered, given their location.
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