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Old January 22nd, 2009, 07:13 PM   #421
MihaiMedias
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daca e chiar asa, scuza ma nu stiam ca era o esire la Campineanu, insa mi se pare reteaua foarte prost conceputa, tot centrul istoric este pustiu de linii si statii de metrou, insa poti sa te dai ca tarzan sau spiderman pe linile de internet. Anarhie!

Daca reviu la Paris, are o medie de distanta intre statii de 548m si 424m pe anumite linii ca Nr 14, e o medie, deci poate ca sa mai intampla 350m... , deci o statie la 500m de piata revolutiei nu e chiar asa de aproape ( nu cei 340 pana la roseti, dar plus 200 pina la piata).
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Old January 22nd, 2009, 07:24 PM   #422
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Centrul istoric, ce a mai ramas din el e Lipscani, 90% a fost demolat si a fost construit Centrul Civic. Lipscani are acces de la Universitate si Unirii dar in fine, tu te referi la centru in general. Metrou pe Calea Victoriei ma indoiesc ca o sa vezi vreodata si nici nu e prea necesar, ai 3 puncte de access apropiate...Piata Victoriei te lasa la capatul Caii, din statia din Piata Romana ( inafara de faptul ca ambele iesiri sunt pe partea cealalta a bulevardului ) ai de mers 5 minute trecand prin Amzei si dai de Hotel Bucuresti, din Universitatii mergi pe Campineanu 5 minute esti la Palatul Regal.
"Prioritar" e sa se gaseasca metode de usurare a aducerii maselor in oras la munca din cartiere precum Drumul Taberei care e dita mai cartierul cu toate ca unul care sta pe linia 41 e pana lui ca nu ia 1-2 statii 41 pana la Armata Poporului si a ajuns in metrou sau intr-un caz mai clar daca sta in Dr. Taberei si lucreaza in zona Victoriei mai simplu nu se poate decat sa ia 41 pana la Crangasi si nu trebe decat sa coboare direct din tramvai in gura de metrou si sa mai mearga cateva statii...pe deoparte e si vina celor care refuza posibilitatea asta insa ramane necesara construirea unei linii intre Dr. Taberei si Universitatii apoi spre Colentina si de aici e mult mai usor sa-ti planifici statiile astfel incat sa se afle la ~500 metri intre ele ca acum daca sunt 750 de metri intre doua statii poti sa pui una la 500, dar cu aia de la 250 ce faci? Iesire comuna cu urmatoarea?
Sincer cu toate ca distanta intre Victoriei si Stefan Cel Mare e mare, decat sa ma urc in metrou pentru o statie chiar si lunga prefer sa o i-au pe jos daca tre sa merg pana acolo, apoi daca am de mers undeva intre Stefan cel Mare si Obor poate deveni frustrant metrou+pe jos ( intre Victoriei si Obor ar putea sa mai faca vreo 2 statii intre ele ) dar pot oricand sa iau tramvaiul care are vreo 4 statii intre Victoriei si SCM adica cat una de metrou.
Ca asa si mie mi-ar place sa fie sistemul Metrorex ca o panza de paianjen care sa circule si non-stop si sa vina si odata la 3 minute cu toate ca cu umblatul nocturn m-am obisnuit si in regim de betie/oboseala si chiar la 6 dimineata cand am la dispozitie metrou prefer sa merg vreo 3-4 km pe jos, poate doar ca m-am obisnuit asa.
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Old January 22nd, 2009, 07:27 PM   #423
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nu stiu cum te descurci cu google earth, dar eu am 620m de la rosetti pana la Univerisitate si 420m pina la esirea campineanu., deci cam 600m - 1km pina la ateneu...

Inteleg ce vrei sa zici, nu e o prioritate pentru cei care lucreaza... poate, dar totus, cred ca descurajeaza niste persoane si intr-adevar, ar trebuii facute mai multe linii, nu chiar mai multe statii...

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Old January 22nd, 2009, 07:32 PM   #424
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Paul, we've been through this before, remember? Now, because of my lack of time to actually post, I'll just quote two of my previous posts on the issue. And for God's sake... organize your posts in paragraphs... longer ones are really heavy on the eyes, I'm not kidding.

Mihai, I'm happy to see there's somebody that wants just what I want: a shorter distance between stations.

Also, please let's write as much as possible in English.
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Being a big fan of the Paris Métro for both objective and subjective reasons, I'd like Bucharest to build all new lines with an average inter-station distance of around 500-600 m.

First, reducing the distance between station will not increase journey times that much. I guess we can all tolerate a few minutes on the plus side on our daily commute to school or work if we get better coverage.

Second, with the way things are above, I think we have no other choice in the long run. Even with traffic management, light rail, dedicated bus lanes, overpasses, underpasses, urban motorways or expressways, road widening etc. you still can go this far in regards to above ground transport, so we better start thinking big in the underground now.

Since you mentioned Paris, remember they have an excellent metro system (214 km, 384 stops), RER (587 km, 257 stops), Transilien, bus, light rail, motorways, expressways as well as wider roads and better thought city planning (all hail Haussmann) and it's still crowded as hell, even though compared to Bucharest in chaos and pollution departments, Paris is like one big park to me.
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Yeah, the Paris metropolitan area now has around 11.6 million in total (10 million in the urban area), but they started building the metro in 1900, when they had under 4 million people in the entire urban area. We now have around 2 million (2.6 million "metro") and it will grow when a real metropolitan area is in place, so thinking that we'll do just fine with stations 1-1.5 km apart and heavy dependence on overground transport doesn't sound like a good plan to me.

I'm not saying we should have all stations 500 m apart. We can have some 350 m apart and others 1.5 km apart, maybe in the suburbs... I'm talking about the average inter-station distance.

I see a lot of people complaining, even on boards such as Transira or TramClub, about the distance between the stations on these new lines being too small, which is bogus to say the least, especially because they always seem to cite the increase in travel times and the fact that the metro will not be an express mode of transport. Well, I think they're all forgetting that our metro is not an express train like the RER, but a metro system. I'm not saying we shouldn't have such a system, perhaps similar to New York's, but I'm not seeing it happen so I better have a slower, but extensive metro.
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Old January 22nd, 2009, 07:42 PM   #425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MihaiMedias View Post
nu stiu cum te descurci cu google earth, dar eu am 620m de la rosetti pana la Univerisitate si 420m pina la esirea campineanu., deci cam 600m - 1km pina la ateneu...

Inteleg ce vrei sa zici, nu e o prioritate pentru cei care lucreaza... poate, dar totus, cred ca descurajeaza niste persoane si intr-adevar, ar trebuii facute mai multe linii, nu chiar mai multe statii...
1.



2.

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Old January 22nd, 2009, 08:30 PM   #426
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Scuze eu am gresit, am pus o strada mai departe ca sa fie cam la mijloc intre univ si romana... Sorry again!
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Old January 22nd, 2009, 09:17 PM   #427
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Si ai tras linie de la iesirea din Piata 21 Decembrie 1989...
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Old January 22nd, 2009, 10:34 PM   #428
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Here we go again...short vs long
Those maps with future lines were made for (most) electoral reasons.
Their purpose was to show to the potential voters that new lines of metro will go near their home areas.
500 - 600 m between stations is ok for high density areas, like Drumul Taberei until Razoare intersection, then you have low density areas.
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Old January 22nd, 2009, 11:49 PM   #429
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EVZ.ro
23 Ianuarie 2009

Quote:
Un tren expres pentru Bucureşti şi împrejurimi

Doi tineri arhitecţi au propus un proiect de reţea de trenuri rapide în Capitală, care ar putea lega municipiul de oraşele din jur şi ar reduce traficul.

Maximum 30 de minute de la Gara de Nord până la Aeroportul „Henri Coandă“. Pentru cei care locuiesc în Bucureşti, acest timp pare desprins din cărţile SF. Pentru Andrei Egli şi Andrei Fufezan, doi tineri arhitecţi români, este, însă, un timp mai mult decât realizabil.

Asta datorită proiectului TER (Tren Expres Regional) pentru Bucureşti, carepresupuneconstruirea a cinci magistrale de transport feroviar, plus încă una reprezentată de linia de centură, menite să asigure des congestionarea traficului ru tier, prin crearea de legături între punctele de maxim interes din oraş, dar şi prin faptul că distanţe medii ar putea fi parcurse într-un timp mult mai scurt, iar localităţile limitrofe Capitalei vor fi conectate cu oraşul.

Investiţie de un miliard €

Valoarea proiectului a fost aproximată de cei doi arhitecţi la un miliard de euro, iar liniile ar putea fi gata în doi ani, dacă s-ar lucra în paralel la ele, sau în cel mult patru ani, dacă lucrările se vor face pe rând.

TER Bucureşti ar urma să folosească o infrastructură existentă deja în proporţie de 90%, ceea ce nu presupune exproprieri şi nici demolări. Nu va încurca traficul, pentru că nu va intersecta decât foarte puţine străzi, şi acelea ar fi dintre cele mai puţin tranzitate. Fiecare dintre linii are la capăt o staţie de metrou, astfel încât legătura cu oraşul să fie cât mai uşor de făcut. Un alt avantaj pentru oraş este faptul că TER Bucureşti nu poluează, trenurile fiind electrice.

T3 pune probleme


Proiectul TER propune cinci linii de transport, numerotate în sens invers acelor de ceasornic, de la T1 la T5, şi o a şasea, numită TC (de la centură). T1 leagă Gara de Nord de Aeroportul Otopeni, pe o linie de tren deja existentă în proporţie de 90%. T2 leagă staţia de metrou Eroilor de oraşul Videle, printr-o linie făcută în proporţie de 95%.

Pe magistrala T3, care leagă Piaţa Unirii de comuna Vidra, cu posibilitate de prelungire până la Giurgiu, apar însă şi cele mai multe probleme, pentru care arhitecţii au găsit deja soluţii aplicate la reţelele de tipul acesta din străinătate.

Pentru cei care vor vrea să ajungă de la Costin Georgian (Morarilor) până în comuna Fundeni, sau invers, viitoarea linie T4 le va asigura transportul.

Celor care s-au gândit să-şi cum pere o casă la Brăneşti sau în Vo luntari munca în Bucureşti le va fi mai accesibilă. Nu vor mai pierde ore întregi în trafic pentru o distanţă relativ mică. Linia T5, care porneşte de la Gara de Nord (sau Basarab) duce până în Brăneşti, chiar cu posibilitate de a face legătura între gări şi Obor. Aceasta este linia care ajunge pe lângă cele mai multe staţii de metrou: Gara de Nord, Basarab şi Obor. Linia TC porneşte din Gara de Nord (sau Basarab) şi face ocolul oraşului în ambele sensuri, pe centura feroviară, linie existentă în proporţie de 100%.


TRASEU. TER va înconjura şi va străbate oraşul mult mai repede decât orice maşină. Pentru mai multe informaţii, accesaţi www.ter-bucuresti.blogspot.ro

FĂRĂ REACŢII

Autorităţile bat pasul pe loc


Andrei Egli a fost deja contactat de reprezentanţii unei firme germane de construcţii, interesaţi de proiect. Semn că s-ar putea atrage şi finanţări externe pentru TER, însă arhitectul aşteaptă, încă, reacţia autorităţilor de la noi. Ludovic Orban, fostul ministru al transporturilor, s-a arătat în cântat de proiect. De altfel, în campania electorală a şi propus Săgeata Albastră până la Aeroportul Otopeni, adică magistrala T1 a TER-ului.

„Nu e nimic nou. E un proiect la care s-au gândit şi oamenii noştri. În minister sunt, oricum, specialişti care îşi fac treaba conştiincios“, spune şi Claudiu Dumitrescu, director în Ministerul Transporturilor. Dumitrescu aminteşte de nevoia înfiinţării Autorităţii Metropolitane de Transport, „aşa cum e în toate marile aglomeraţii urbane“, şi spune că o astfel de unificare la nivel administrativ ar putea deschide drumuri noi pentru proiectele care să descongestioneze traficul şi să ajute la dezvoltarea pe termen lung a Capitalei. Primăria Capitalei nu şi-a dat încă cu părerea despre proiect.

ŞI LA SIBIU

Trenul interurban, tot în proiect


Clubul Economic German din Transilvania a lansat anul trecut ideea înfiinţării unui tren interurban, care să facă legătura între zonele industriale ale Sibiului şi localităţile Cisnădie şi Ocna Sibiului. Deşi, în octombrie 2008, trenul interurban a făcut o cursă demonstrativă, iniţiativa a rămas tot la stadiul de proiect.

Investiţia ajunge la 9 milioane de euro, iar iniţiatorii sperau să primească şi un ajutor din partea statulu. Însă Ministerul Trans porturilor nu a dat niciun răspuns soli cită rii primite de la autorităţile judeţene, potrivit preşedintelui CJ Sibiu, Martin Bottesch. (Dragoş Popescu)

Last edited by dnd; January 22nd, 2009 at 11:59 PM.
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Old January 22nd, 2009, 11:49 PM   #430
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Old January 23rd, 2009, 12:04 AM   #431
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Un astfel de program trebuie foarte bine gandit atunci cand s-ar face ( Anul 2230? ).
De proiectul cu inelul in jurul Bucurestiului am mai auzit, ca exista acea cale ferata insa nu stiu cu cat ar ajuta...ce poate fi realizat destul de usor dar ar provoca daune Fly Taxi-ului e GDN-Otopeni si in cazul ala sa modifice sinele pentru o distanta mica sa se poata faca drumul rapid, jumatate de ora mi se pare enorm, parca la Londra de la Heathrow la gara am facut 15 minute.
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Old January 23rd, 2009, 08:48 AM   #432
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pacat a liniile alea de TER nu mi-ar folosi mie personal deloc. Niciuna nu trece pe langa mine sau pe langa vreo zona care ma intereseaza in mod direct.
Ideea e f buna, dar trebuie studiate foarte foarte bine traseele, si gandite in concordanta cu viitoarea dezvoltare a metroului.
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Old January 23rd, 2009, 09:20 AM   #433
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Multumesc primariei Capitalei.

pentru incurajarea transportului in Comun. Ieri am luat masina, am mers pana in Obor si de acolo am luat metroul. Seara mi-am gasit masina in AFUMATI.
Oricum distractia va fi maxima in tribunal...odata ca masina mea e dusa in AFUMATI, iar eu sunt cu domiciliul in Bucuresti. De ce nu o duc in celalat colt de tara? Oricum aici o sa-mi plateasca ROVIGNETA, ca eu nu ies cu masina din Bucuresti. a doua oara...de ce filmarea respectiva e facuta de catre politia capitalei iar mie procesul verbal si amenda polititie imi este facuta de Politia Afumati? a treia oara...sunt curios cum o sa dovedeasca ei faptul ca am parcat aiurea? (stiam ca se ridica masini in zona, am verificat vizual ce e drept, distanta pana la semnul care interzicea stationarea si am zis ca sunt OK. Din ce am inteles, ei dovada o au pe o inregistrare radar, care probabil filmeaza in mers toate masinile parcate acolo. De aici si pana la a demonstra instantei ca sunt mai putin de 50 metri pana la semn e cale lunga. Sunt curios ce spun instructiunile metrologice ale aparatului respectiv. Ca sa nu mai spun cum era zona repsctiva de depozitare....sotiei mele ii era frica ca ne da unu in cap pe acolo, nici un bec, in mijlocul campului.
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Old January 23rd, 2009, 12:25 PM   #434
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I hate to bring this up...again...

I see this idea TER brought up quite often but no other ...No contingency plan??

Just to mention once again that the mayor's office should look into the possibility of planning a suspended mass transit system , which I believe would NOT cost as much as digging underground ...it will still be electric , up to date not to mention just as fast as the subway!

Such a solution would enhance the pedestrian level crossing facilities as well...just imagine a road stretch with almost no pedestrian passage ...lot faster !

The plot used to erect the pillars is a lot smaller than a digging site / multiple digging sites....

I often look at Bangkok ( I visited that metropolis several times in between 1998 and 2000 ) , I look at Miami ( visited as well for a few occasions in 2005 and 2006 ) .....hey , look at Tokyo .....

I know the above are not the best solutions , however I see no such projects as of yet regarding our City...only projects that will agglomerate more and more our streets

We need such a solution as bold as that may be !

Don't you think?

P.S. Not to mention that We ( as capital city ) need bold , futuristic projects cause the "face of Bucharest" needs a change that will blend well with the existing architecture ....

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Old January 23rd, 2009, 01:00 PM   #435
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I don't like suspended metro's it just suffocates the zone totally and I've seen it in N.Y. enough.
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Old January 23rd, 2009, 02:06 PM   #436
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the future....

somebody said the only thing we learn from history is that we learn nothing from history.
The Americans made the suspended motrways and trains in the city in the 50s. Starting like 10 years ago, USA(Big Dig project for example) and a lot of cities in Europe (Madrid) and others are moving the construction underground.
If we do the suspended we are anyway 50 years behind, if we build underground we are only 10...
On the same topic, now related to Pasajul Basarab, I am willing to bet that in 40 years the project or laaarge parts of it will be demolished and rebuild underground.
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Old January 23rd, 2009, 03:23 PM   #437
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Man, Bangkok's model is NO solution! After living there for 6 years, I assure you that the traffic is awful, the suspended motorways create a huge amount of pollution which drips down to the ground level (have you tried waiting for a bus under a motorway? It's NOT fun!) and it is definitely one of the most pedestrian-unfriendly cities in the world...how do you think people would react to having to climb flights of stairs at nearly every intersection?

Bangkok in fact is a model of what lack of planning does to a large city...we need to look at examples like Santiago de Chile or Singapore for clearing up traffic. Nearly every large city in the world is going for a combination of traffic restrictions in the city center, large parking garages, and park'n'ride + metro expansion. There is no other better choice...
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Old January 23rd, 2009, 06:17 PM   #438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmin View Post
Paul, we've been through this before, remember? Now, because of my lack of time to actually post, I'll just quote two of my previous posts on the issue. And for God's sake... organize your posts in paragraphs... longer ones are really heavy on the eyes, I'm not kidding.

Mihai, I'm happy to see there's somebody that wants just what I want: a shorter distance between stations.

Also, please let's write as much as possible in English.
I get your point but I don't think that any extremes are good. And Paris's interstations are just the smallest in the world together with maybe Lisbon and parts of central Brussels. Berlin, London, Budapest, Athens, Prague have larger ones and I doubt that they have worst traffic than Paris.

I still believe Berlin is the best example of organizing traffic, rather than Paris. I have been to both cities and I found Berlin to be far superior on issues such as congestion, conveniance, efficiency.
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Old January 24th, 2009, 02:40 PM   #439
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Lessons for PMB to learn...
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A driving force to change Paris

PARIS: For his efforts to reduce the privilege of car drivers in Paris, Denis Baupin has been saddled with nasty nicknames, including "Monsieur Embouteillages" (Mr. Traffic Jam), Khmer Vert and worse.

As the transportation chief of the French capital for seven years, Baupin, who has written a book called "All Cars, No Future," was the force behind the development of Paris's hugely successful bicycle-sharing program, Vélib'. He introduced a tramway, minibuses, rider subsidies, more bus lanes and faster bus speeds. He reduced auto speed limits to 30 kilometers an hour, or just under 19 miles an hour, from 50 kilometers an hour on 1,000 streets and closed many to cars altogether.

In short, Baupin has changed the face of mobility in Paris, making it, by most accounts, easier for users of public transportation, pedestrians and bikers, and less accessible to car drivers.
[...]
Full article - International Herald Tribune
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Old January 24th, 2009, 11:55 PM   #440
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He deserves a statue.
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