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Old March 1st, 2009, 02:08 PM   #201
london24/7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro-E View Post
im sorry, did you actually read what i wrote before quoting me?

PRT shouldn't, couldn't & wouldn't serve intercity.
i can't believe I've quoted myself...thats just wrong

BTW, i'm all in for TGV. it rocks.
Didnt mean you specifically i was just using your post to carry on the debate. You have these prt nuts arguing against light rail coz they think PRT can carry people between teh cities in their states with super maglev 300mph speeds.. crazy.
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Old March 3rd, 2009, 05:21 PM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by london24/7 View Post
Didnt mean you specifically i was just using your post to carry on the debate. You have these prt nuts arguing against light rail coz they think PRT can carry people between teh cities in their states with super maglev 300mph speeds.. crazy.
well it certainly is inefficient.

but so is the automobile.
I've been reading a book called "Urban Transport", the book is from 1965.
he claims the the 1956 federal aid act of constructing an interstate system in the US moved enough dirt to bury Connecticut knee-deep. the sand, gravel, and crushed stone for the construction would be enough for a wall 50 feet high and 9 feet tall around the world. the concrete is enough to pave 6 sidewalks to the moon.
mind you this was the 1956 act of road paving, and i bet that since then the clusterf**k of highways only got bigger.
i do believe the automobile is the saddest joke of our times.
inner city as well as inter state, it just takes way to much infrastructure.
this will not change when we have the electric car.

* the writer then skipped to his Prius and drove of to get milk. or something.*
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Old April 6th, 2009, 12:09 AM   #203
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NEWS

ULTra on Google Street View
Heathrow guideway visible from Western Perimeter Rd
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...=12&iwloc=addr

New Vectus site
http://vectus.se/
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Old April 8th, 2009, 01:54 AM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro-E View Post

i do believe the automobile is the saddest joke of our times.
inner city as well as inter state, it just takes way to much infrastructure.
this will not change when we have the electric car.
It is even worse that than. The automobile age with its highways, parking and urban sprawl will likely represent the largest squandering of resources and opportunity that humans will ever make. Just image the fantastic world we could have created with all the energy, human creativity and the materials that we instead wasted on the automobile. It is just mind blogging. It is still not too late to change though. We better do it fast.
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Old April 9th, 2009, 08:48 AM   #205
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I'm glad people are still talking about PRT.
I'm fascinated by it.
I've drawn up a "cropped" facsimile of the Morgantown, WV, personal rapid transit system:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesbondsv/3341018886/
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Old April 27th, 2009, 05:25 PM   #206
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NEW MASDAR CITY WEBSITE
New site describes plans for walkable city environment, facilitated by PRT, freight PRT, LRT, and HSR

http://www.masdarcity.ae/

HEATHROW PRT CONFERENCE OPENS

• Conference site
• Finnish blogger in attendance
• Brief video
• Asko's photos
http://picasaweb.google.com/akauppi/ULTraTestDrive#

NEW VIDEOS OF PRT ULTRA
http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...odcarguru&aq=f
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Old April 27th, 2009, 05:57 PM   #207
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What is the top speed of the pods?
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Old April 27th, 2009, 10:39 PM   #208
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Should be 40/50 km/H
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Old May 1st, 2009, 02:01 AM   #209
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Q&A With Luca Guala of Systematica on Masdar’s Personal Rapid Transit System
29 April 2009
Green Car Congress had an opportunity to follow up with Luca Guala of Systematica to learn more about the Personal Rapid Transit (PRT) system being applied in Masdar. (Earlier post.) Systematica, a design and engineering firm based in Italy with clients throughout the world, combines a traditional engineering company with an urban planning studio. They are the responsible for providing the system engineering for Masdar’s PRT network.

GCC. What is the range of the PRT before it needs to be recharged and/or how many hours can it operate before recharging?

LG: The current batch of PRT will only serve the [Masdar Institute of Science and Technology] MIST University and a much smaller network. The final vehicle may very well adopt a different technology and it has not been defined yet. The vehicle I have presented at SAE is 2getthere’s cybercar and has a range of 60 km in simulated service in the Masdar network. With a typical simulated stop-go cycle and by putting the vehicle out of service when the batteries reach 20% of their charge, this means about 3-4 hours of continuous service before a long recharge is needed.

This allows all vehicles to be operational at morning peak hour, be removed from service gradually during the day and be all operational again for evening peak. Of course, a different strategy may be adopted for example taking the vehicles off service earlier, and providing a short fast recharge to have the long, slow recharge only at night.

GCC: The PRT will be on its own dedicated level below the pedestrian traffic. Will the PRTs be sharing this space with other vehicles?

LG: No, the space will be exclusive. However, emergency and maintenance manned vehicles will be allowed to enter if necessary, by stopping PRT traffic along their route.

GCC: How much two-dimensional flexibility do they have? Are the PRT’s on a track system, do they follow a certain path? Do they have the ability to follow different paths depending upon traffic?

LG: The system has complete two-dimensional flexibility. As a matter of fact, in an existing application of this technology in the port of Rotterdam for the transport of containers, the vehicles travel on a surface, rather than corridors, by following virtual routes defined by a grid of magnets, rather than rows of magnets as in Masdar.

The vehicles of Masdar are free-ranging on rubber tires and travel on an ordinary bitumen or concrete surface. The vehicles will be given a “task” by the central supervisory system, which generally will be something like: “take your passengers from A to B following the best route according to distance, travel time and traffic”.

They follow a row of magnets in the road, about one magnet every 4m, which allow a periodical correction of trajectory errors. Several supervisory logics are possible, some are “rigid” (once the task is given, it cannot be changed and after start no further communication occurs between vehicle and supervision, unless some emergency takes place) others are “flexible” (both the supervisory system and the vehicle can “ask” to change route, or speed or some other travel parameter). You can find more information on 2getthere’s website: www.2getthere.eu.

GCC: What happens if a PRT breaks down? Can I get out and walk? Will I be run down by other PRTs?

LG: Normally, you will be invited to stay in the vehicle and wait for assistance. If your safety is in danger (or if you panic) you can exit the vehicle and walk to the nearest safety exit. All vehicles have object detection systems that will prevent them from running over you. The stranded vehicle from which you have exited will act as a barrier.

GCC: What is the ballpark cost for this system?

LG: I do not have an answer to this question, sorry. The initial system is likely to be expensive because of prototyping issues but the final PRT system promises to be rather cheap compared to mass transit.

The vehicles are not more expensive than small cars once mass production is set up and the “hard” infrastructure is merely a road surface and one magnet (cost = US$5 including fitting) every 4m. The right of way is much narrower than for any comparable mass transit system and of course very little manpower is included in operation costs. The extra costs, compared to mass transit or manned systems, are the supervisory control system, the vehicle-control communication network, the recharging stations and the protected passenger stations.

GCC: Who designed the units, who will manufacture the units and what is Systematica’s role in the operation?

LG: The vehicles and the system for the first batch of 13 vehicles will be manufactured by 2getthere. The design of the vehicle is by Zagato. Systematica is designing the network and doing the traffic simulations.
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Old May 4th, 2009, 08:11 PM   #210
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Take a ride on Heathrow PRT

First ever videos of Heathrow PRT (pod cars) taken from inside a moving vehicle (taken with a shaky handheld camcorder) on the completed guideway. You'll see: ride experience inside the vehicle, guideway, stations, vehicle interior, station user interface, escape hatch, maintenance facility, control room, etc. 13 minutes in 8 videos in a single playlist.

"The ride is NOT bumpy. the handheld video exaggerates the bumpiness. Any bumpiness there was did not seem related to joints between the planks. I would characterize the ride smoothness as better than a bus, not as good as light rail, similar to a car. It would be easy to read while riding. Having said that, certain portions of the track seemed smoother than others. Shimming to eliminate 'kinks' at columns is still under way. The overall experience far exceeds the shuttle buses the system will replace." - Peter Muller, PRT Consulting, Denver.

http://www.ultraprt.com/cms/index.ph...april-09-video

The scheduled day for first commercial passenger operation is still Q4 2009.



*******************

We’ve also significantly updated the ATS ULTra North America web site:

http://www.ultraprt.com/
  • Professional consultant's written impression from a recent ride on the Heathrow system. Finally, a graphic of the London Heathrow PRT alignment.
  • Proposed systems: San Jose Airport alignment, Santa Cruz alignment, Alameda Point alignment, Virginia finds PRT viable
  • Implementation customizations: svelte safety rail, fiberglass grid running surface, cantilever, culvert - cut & cover with glass, stations inside buildings
  • 20 page system description PDF with details on: vehicles, guideway, stations, control, capacity, environmental benefits, safety certification, solar, ATS staff, partners, and history
  • Compilation/organization of historic items
  • 2 page PDF brochure

Steve Raney, ATS ULTra North America, Palo Alto
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Old May 5th, 2009, 06:38 PM   #211
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The railings along the trackside are pretty big, are they required because it's in the airport or would they be a requirement for any application of the system on elevated sections? If they're always required and they're always this big then does that not defeat the purpose of having what is otherwise quite a lightweight and unobtrusive guideway?
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Old May 5th, 2009, 07:25 PM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
The railings along the trackside are pretty big, are they required because it's in the airport or would they be a requirement for any application of the system on elevated sections? If they're always required and they're always this big then does that not defeat the purpose of having what is otherwise quite a lightweight and unobtrusive guideway?
There are many options for each ULTra system implementation. One option is a more visually pleasing safety rail:
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Old May 5th, 2009, 08:36 PM   #213
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I was reading somewhere that there is a PRT or APM operating in Belfast, perhaps in a shopping mall. Is anyone aware of this?
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Old May 6th, 2009, 12:26 PM   #214
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JUST SAVE IT ON THE DESKTOP TO SEE ALL THE PAGES OF BOTH DOCUMENTS!!!
JUST SAVE IT ON THE DESKTOP TO SEE ALL THE PAGES OF BOTH DOCUMENTS!!!


JUST SAVE IT ON THE DESKTOP TO SEE ALL THE PAGES OF BOTH DOCUMENTS!!!

Last edited by apaoli; May 6th, 2009 at 12:40 PM.
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Old May 17th, 2009, 09:18 PM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apaoli View Post
JUST SAVE IT ON THE DESKTOP TO SEE ALL THE PAGES OF BOTH DOCUMENTS!!!
JUST SAVE IT ON THE DESKTOP TO SEE ALL THE PAGES OF BOTH DOCUMENTS!!!


JUST SAVE IT ON THE DESKTOP TO SEE ALL THE PAGES OF BOTH DOCUMENTS!!!
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Old May 18th, 2009, 12:50 AM   #216
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PRT Capital costs likely understated:

http://www.publictransit.us/index.ph...d=201&Itemid=1
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Old May 18th, 2009, 03:33 AM   #217
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It has been my observation that the capital cost of virtually every fixed-guideway transit project is initially underestimated regardless of the technology that is used.
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Old May 18th, 2009, 09:09 AM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinB View Post
PRT Capital costs likely understated:

http://www.publictransit.us/index.ph...d=201&Itemid=1
I believe Michael Setty's blog (publictransit.us) is going to post our response:

From ATS's Dr. Torquil Ross-Martin:
We have designed our vehicles to ensure that their fatigue life exceeds that which will be encountered in 8 years service - given maximum levels of use. In fact, the need to do this was a major factor in our decision to design a complete new vehicle rather than adapt an existing design.

There is no particular difficulty in doing this with aluminium structures when the loads that they will encounter is well known - the proof flies above us every day.

Now one of the significant advantages that PRT vehicles have over road vehicles (from an ease of engineering perspective) is that the loads they will encounter are precisely known. We know the roughness of the guideway, the speed around the corners, how hard we will brake, the maximum possible payload etc. Essentially everything. And we control it. So we can do these calculations precisely, just like aeroplane designers do, so the vehicles WILL NOT FAIL.

Pity the poor van or car designer. He/she has to rely only on statistics - the worst case owner won't overload their van by more than so much, they won't pound up and down kerbs at speed more that X times a day, their regular road won't have more than Y big potholes per mile....

Little wonder he/she tends to stay away from aluminium, (although you should note that aluminium suspension components are increasingly common as manufacturers strive to improve performance and reduce weight).

And no surprise that, should you abuse your car or van more than the designer allowed for, it will prematurely fail.

Something that properly designed PRT won't do, because it isn't subject to driver abuse.
please also check out our capital cost explanation:
http://www.ultraprt.com/cms/index.ph...-mile-7m---15m

- Steve Raney, ATS ULTra North America
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Old May 18th, 2009, 08:20 PM   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveraneyC21 View Post
I believe Michael Setty's blog (publictransit.us) is going to post our response:

From ATS's Dr. Torquil Ross-Martin:
We have designed our vehicles to ensure that their fatigue life exceeds that which will be encountered in 8 years service - given maximum levels of use. In fact, the need to do this was a major factor in our decision to design a complete new vehicle rather than adapt an existing design.

There is no particular difficulty in doing this with aluminium structures when the loads that they will encounter is well known - the proof flies above us every day.

Now one of the significant advantages that PRT vehicles have over road vehicles (from an ease of engineering perspective) is that the loads they will encounter are precisely known. We know the roughness of the guideway, the speed around the corners, how hard we will brake, the maximum possible payload etc. Essentially everything. And we control it. So we can do these calculations precisely, just like aeroplane designers do, so the vehicles WILL NOT FAIL.

Pity the poor van or car designer. He/she has to rely only on statistics - the worst case owner won't overload their van by more than so much, they won't pound up and down kerbs at speed more that X times a day, their regular road won't have more than Y big potholes per mile....

Little wonder he/she tends to stay away from aluminium, (although you should note that aluminium suspension components are increasingly common as manufacturers strive to improve performance and reduce weight).

And no surprise that, should you abuse your car or van more than the designer allowed for, it will prematurely fail.

Something that properly designed PRT won't do, because it isn't subject to driver abuse.
please also check out our capital cost explanation:
http://www.ultraprt.com/cms/index.ph...-mile-7m---15m

- Steve Raney, ATS ULTra North America
good point about driver abuse.
question if i may:
what kind of population density is required for prt to be viable?
how do you think it should be implemented along other modes of public transport?
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Old May 18th, 2009, 09:01 PM   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro-E View Post
good point about driver abuse.
question if i may:
what kind of population density is required for prt to be viable?
how do you think it should be implemented along other modes of public transport?
I'm generally looking for 1,000 workers, residents, or shoppers within walking distance of the PRT station (alas, that's only 300 meters for folks from the US), without having to cross a busy arterial street where they'll be hit by cars. Hence, there are some semi-low density office parks with 2 story buildings that have the right density in spite of acres and acres of surface parking lots.

Here's a boring paper on PRT design for a big suburban job center connected to bus and metro rail. Carpooling is also increased by PRT - I also think that innovations like Avego instant ridesharing work synergistically with PRT. I generally sketch PRT systems as "last mile solutions," complementing existing transit. I think of PRT as a shuttle bus on steroids, not as a line haul transit system. The idea is that PRT makes existing transit more effective and that existing transit makes PRT more effective.
http://www.ultraprt.com/library.htm#Hacienda
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