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Old January 8th, 2012, 01:06 AM   #301
lkstrknb
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During my most recent trip to London, an interesting and telling thing occurred. I was at Parking Station A and there were no pods available. I used the touch screen to hail a pod from the right bay and waited about 1.5 minutes. A pod arrived into my station empty (which means it was dispatched either from terminal 5 about 5 minutes ago, or from Station B queue area) but the pod pulled into the left bay and stayed there waiting for passengers. I could have easily canceled my pod from the right bay and stepped over to the left bay to use that pod, but for the sake of my experiment, I waited another 2 minutes for a pod to arrive into my bay (right).

This tells me that once the pods are en-route, they cannot change their routing even if they are running empty. I have not confirmed this, but I believe that all pods dispatched empty from terminal 5 to the parking lots are sent to the Parking Station B queue line. From there, they are dispatched to either the Parking Station B or A.

It would be nice if a pod on its way to the Parking Station B queue line could be diverted to go directly to the Parking Station A if hailed. For a small system of only three stations, it if fine they way it is, but if there is a large system with many stations, the ability for a pod to be able to change its routing or final station mid-route would be essential. This is essential for sending empty pods to stations throughout the system and also would be nice for occupied pods. What if a passenger was en-route from station A to station M, a 20 minute ride, discovers he or she left something in his or her car? They should be able to change their destination en-route.

Any thoughts?
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Old January 8th, 2012, 02:02 AM   #302
lkstrknb
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My two videos

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkstrknb View Post
I just went back to London and rode the PRT system there again and took a little video.

This shows me in a pod arriving at a station where both bays are occupied.

Thanks

Last edited by lkstrknb; June 12th, 2012 at 12:03 AM.
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Old January 8th, 2012, 04:18 PM   #303
lkstrknb
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Hello, I revised my first video. It had a typo in it (oops!). I also added some video to it. Thanks.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7Oxv...2&feature=plcp

Last edited by lkstrknb; January 8th, 2012 at 04:39 PM.
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Old January 9th, 2012, 10:33 PM   #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkstrknb View Post
the ability for a pod to be able to change its routing or final station mid-route would be essential. This is essential
You've merely written automobiles are necessities
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Old January 10th, 2012, 06:31 PM   #305
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Seems interesting. Definitely a sneak peek into the future imho
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Old January 10th, 2012, 08:55 PM   #306
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What about misuse, sabotage or playing children? What happens with the waiting passengers when people do not want to get off the pod at their destination and instead use it to go on somewhere else?
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Old January 11th, 2012, 12:10 AM   #307
lkstrknb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
You've merely written automobiles are necessities
This is one of the benefits of PRT; the convenience of a car without the pollution and congestion of automobile traffic. It is cars without the human error factor.

In the future it would be great to see your own personal car on the PRT track controlled by computer harmoniously with all the other vehicles but able to be driven off the track as well.

PRT can be just a stepping stone to a much more integrated and seamless transportation system in the future.
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Old January 11th, 2012, 02:30 AM   #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
You've merely written implied a necessity for automobiles are necessities
Clarified?

I know that driving times around the British Isles have been horrendous decade in, decade out, but I recognise no necessity in shaving a wimpy couple of minutes off some pod ride I wouldn't be surprised if your wish come true, although I imagine it would be so much more exacting on software logistics, re-diagramming all the pods just because some road-wearied motorist corrects her/his destination, or any other whimsical happenstance for that matter.
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Old February 14th, 2012, 02:26 PM   #309
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Heatrow UltraPRT , here are some data of working performances from the builder ultraglobalprt.com

Quote:
Key statistics for the previous three months:

November

Hours of operation – 647
Number of occupied vehicle journeys – 22,183
Average wait for vehicle – 10.3 seconds (84% had zero waiting time)
Service Availability – 99.7%
October

Hours of operation – 667
Number of occupied vehicle journeys – 21,527
Average wait for vehicle – 8.3 seconds (86% had zero waiting time)
Service Availability – 99.9%
September

Hours of operation – 646
Number of occupied vehicle journeys – 21,695
Average wait for vehicle – 9.6 seconds (76% had zero waiting time)
Service Availability – 98.6%
Average wait for vehicle is the time taken for a vehicle to be ready at a bay, following a journey request.
I did some simple maths -
Total occupied vehicle journeys - OVJ : 65405
Total operation hours : 1960
OVJ/Hour : 33,36

That means : 133,47 pph capacity in the case of full occupancy (4 people each pad) or for a more real 2/3 occupancy 88,98 pph

A I saw, the trip is free, or , more correctly is included in parking ticket cost.

If we transfer these data on an urban network, how much should cost the ticket to cover at least 40% of capital and operation costs?
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Old February 14th, 2012, 07:18 PM   #310
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I hope they can expand the PRT system to the rest of the airport. I know they had very significant opening delays which I assume was primarily due to software issues, but I would think that future expansions should be pretty straightforward and relatively inexpensive.

When riding the system I saw that there is a turnout leading to nowhere near the Terminal 5 station and one more near the parking stations A and B just before the roundabout. The system is built with expansions in mind.
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Old February 14th, 2012, 08:05 PM   #311
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Quote:
Meanwhile, the South Koreans are building a 10km Personal Rapid Transport (PRT) system, for which WGH has done the design and track. Mr Howarth described it as a cross between “a horizontal lift and a taxi”.
Does anyone know about this?

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/busin...pice_1_4241815
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Old February 14th, 2012, 08:18 PM   #312
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I know this is relatively old news, but I don't see it posted here. ULTra is building another PRT system in Amritsar India. This system is 8km long with 7 stations! Congradulations ULTra

http://www.ultraglobalprt.com/wheres...mritsar-india/

This is taken from the Ultraglobalprt website.

Quote:
Amritsar, India

World’s first and largest urban PRT system is announced; Amritsar North India breaks ground on 12 December 2011

Ultra Fairwood, the collaboration between Ultra and Fairwood created to bring the Ultra technology to Asia, has been awarded a contract for the world’s first urban Passenger Rapid Transport (PRT) system in Amritsar, India.

Amritsar represents the first urban application of PRT. At peak capacity the Amritsar system can carry up to 100,000 passengers a day on a 8km / 4.8 mile elevated guideway in over 200 pods between seven stations, making it the world’s largest PRT system to date.

Financed entirely by private funding on a build, own, operate transfer (BOOT) basis, passenger services will go live in 2014. Although the cost of the scheme is subject to commercial confidentiality, it demonstrates that a large scale urban PRT system can be delivered on a financially viable, fare-based model and offer very real returns for financial backers.


Amritsar system: 7 stations, 3.3 km / 2 miles of guideway

Amritsar is home to the holiest shrine of Sikhs, the Golden Temple, and is rich in historical, religious and heritage sites. As such it’s a big draw for large numbers of visitors, especially during festivals and religious events, as pilgrims flock to the area. Up to 500,000 people visit the Golden Temple on important religious festival days. The PRT system will ease congestion and reduce the current long travel transit times.

The route will focus on taking passengers from the railway and bus stations to the Golden Temple and will:

Take 35% of daily visitors to the Golden Temple
Save up to 30 minutes on the current journey times
Attract passengers from a wide geographic and demographic profile, from regular
commuters to “one off day trip” users.
Run from 04.00 – 24.00 seven days a week
Charge fares competitive with alternative modes such as taxis and auto-rickshaws
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Old February 15th, 2012, 12:15 AM   #313
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Its curious that these projects doesn't exploit the PRT main advantage , the possibility of grid-type multiple lines network
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Old February 15th, 2012, 08:25 AM   #314
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I think one thing PRT needs is track speed turnouts where the vehicles do not slow down to turn or continue straight. This will enable the vehicles to run closer together, which is one of the many benefits of PRT.

I agree, grid-type systems is where PRT really will shine. I imagine a grid network where there are always 3 or 4 ways to get from one station to any other station, and the computer decides which is the most efficient or will send pods a different route to avoid heavy traffic or even things out a bit. Also, during the night, at off peak times, certain sections of track can be shut down for maintenance with all traffic being routed around the section of track.

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Old February 15th, 2012, 06:17 PM   #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruston View Post
Heatrow UltraPRT , here are some data of working performances from the builder ultraglobalprt.com



I did some simple maths -
Total occupied vehicle journeys - OVJ : 65405
Total operation hours : 1960
OVJ/Hour : 33,36

That means : 133,47 pph capacity in the case of full occupancy (4 people each pad) or for a more real 2/3 occupancy 88,98 pph

A I saw, the trip is free, or , more correctly is included in parking ticket cost.

If we transfer these data on an urban network, how much should cost the ticket to cover at least 40% of capital and operation costs?
Let's do a ROI , taking the only data known : 32 million € cost
in 30 years at a conservative 3,85% interest are 54,01 millions € total or 1,8 million/year.

Actual occupancy based on three months : 65405 OVJ or 726 OVJ/day
Yearly total : 265253,61 (24/7/12)

That means 6,78 € / OVJ for repaying capital costs .

Let's consider a consistent increase with use and knowledge , so we double it at 530507,22 OVJ/year

That means 3,39 € /OVJ for repaying capital costs .

Would be interesting to know energy and maintenance costs, since just capital cost/yearly PPH of an APM are around 0,28 - 0,38 €
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Old February 19th, 2012, 06:47 PM   #316
lkstrknb
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When I was there the first time, I asked the guys at the control centre some questions I had about the system. I asked about the longevity of the batteries and if they needed to be replaces every few years. He didn't give me any numbers, but he said they will last for a very long time.
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Old February 19th, 2012, 08:21 PM   #317
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Amritsar looks like a system based on very low wages (low construction cost) mixed with relatively rich passengers (tourists). Also, very few stations and probably a lot of standards (from ROW use to structural) that aren't at first-world level.

I peek at this thread occasionally. Still a niche concept.
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Old February 21st, 2012, 11:26 PM   #318
lkstrknb
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I’m very curious about the software behind the ULTra PRT system in London and Amritsar. I am guessing that the lengthy delays opening the system at London Heathrow was due to software issues and wonder if expansions on the current system at Heathrow or completely new systems will have the same software issues. Does each new system require software tweaks or has ULTra perfected the software which can be applied to any network, track arrangement, number of stations . . .

It would be fantastic if all they had to do with the new Amritsar system was to build the track, stations, and vehicles and press ‘GO’ with minimal programming.

Any thoughts?
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Old February 23rd, 2012, 01:09 AM   #319
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I understand they're supposed to be building a PRT in Masdr City in the United Arab Emirates. Was this project ever funded?
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Old February 23rd, 2012, 07:00 PM   #320
lkstrknb
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http://singularityhub.com/2011/03/01...of-the-future/

The Masdar City PRT system has been canceled, although there is still a two-station shuttle system operating. This 'test' system actually opened a few months before the London Heathrow system, but I don't think this is co sidered a PRT system because it only has two stations.
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