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Old December 2nd, 2011, 04:07 PM   #161
WalkTheWorld
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ed110220

Perhaps it is a climate thing? The UK has a relatively mild climate compared with much of the USA (less risk of frost damage) and the parts of South Africa subject to severe frosts all tend to be dry in the winter so little risk of freeze-thaw damage.

This section of the M25 in the UK used to have a steel barrier but has been reconstructed with a concrete one: http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=51.3592...358.9,,0,11.71

In South Africa freeways were often built with quite a wide median with steel barrier and were later widened by adding an extra lane to each carriageway in what used to be the median, separated with a concrete barrier like this: http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=-26.056...245.88,,0,1.41

Quite a lot of the concrete work of UK motorways built in the 1960s became defective surprisingly early, from the 1980s onwards. I'm not aware of problems with concrete from South African works of the same period suffering extensive problems.
I am posting form Italy.... But ok. The continental extremes might be the reason.
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Old December 3rd, 2011, 03:02 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GROBIN View Post
I've seen this type of crashbarriers in Southeastern Poland, in the secondary roads of the wonderful Bieszczady region. I heard they existed in the U.K., but I didn't see them (or maybe I didn't pay enough attention) each time I went there.

In northern Poland too, like on new stretch of A1.


Polished crash barriers





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Old December 4th, 2011, 05:46 PM   #163
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New Southern Expressway in Sri Lanka running 96km from Colombo to Galle uses mostly steel barriers, but also cable and concrete.





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Old December 5th, 2011, 05:08 AM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WalkTheWorld View Post
Sorry for my late reply. I honestly don't know why we do call the "new jersey" here. It has always been like that. Reverse V shaped concrete barriers, that became popular in the 80's. They originally allowed to provide some protection on dual carriageways here you input had a double eviterŕ stripe between flows of vehicles. They are being replaced by steel mainly because of ageing concrete becoming brittle and unsafe.
The "Jersey barrier" has it name because that's where it was developed.

The Jersey barrier was developed at Stevens Institute of Technology in Hoboken, New Jersey, United States, under the direction of the New Jersey State Highway Department to divide multiple lanes on a highway.[1] A typical Jersey barrier stands 32 inches (81 cm) tall and is made of steel-reinforced poured concrete.[2] Many are constructed with the embedded steel reinforcement protruding from each end, allowing them to be incorporated into permanent emplacements when linked to one another by sections of fresh concrete poured on-site

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_barrier





Cable median barrier is a style that's seen a big increase in usage the US over last 5 years. It's being used where medians are too wide for traditional concrete or steel




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Old December 24th, 2011, 03:22 AM   #165
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Yesterday my daughter had a wreck. She was travelling southbound in drizzly rain on elderly, crappy I-85 near Gaffney SC, which has cable rail median barriers like those pictured above, though the median looks narrower. Her car, a small, sporty Scion tc, skidded, fishtailed, then started spinning. It went into the median and under the cable barrier, ripping the posts out of the ground. She came to rest perpendicular to the highway, with the nose of her car sticking about three feet/ 1 meter into the northbound lanes, where it was immediately hit by an 18 wheeler.

Luckily, neither my daughter nor anyone else was injured. In fact, she says it was actually lucky that an 18 wheeler hit her-- a car would likely have deflected or spun and caused a multicar collision, while the truck was comparatively unaffected by the impact and was able to stop safely.

I'm thankful that the cable barrier kept her from going completely across the median, but...

I'm too lazy to look it up now, but I posted pictures of the cable rails installed on I-85 in northern Georgia. They have a continuous concrete footing connecting the posts. Now I know why.

Last edited by Tom 958; December 24th, 2011 at 03:45 AM. Reason: added stuff
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Old December 24th, 2011, 05:34 AM   #166
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Oh, my!
That's horrifying.
Keep us posted.
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Old December 24th, 2011, 02:31 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Oh, my!
That's horrifying.
Keep us posted.
Well, it's over now. Not even the usual day-after soreness. There is one roadgeeky thing to add, though: While the last time I drove that stretch I noticed a couple of places where the cable barrier functioned as intended, my daughter and her boyfriend report that there are several other places where the posts were pulled out of the ground by an impact.
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Old December 24th, 2011, 05:41 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlover View Post
The "Jersey barrier" has it name because that's where it was developed.

The Jersey barrier was developed at Stevens Institute of Technology in Hoboken, New Jersey, United States, under the direction of the New Jersey State Highway Department to divide multiple lanes on a highway.[1] A typical Jersey barrier stands 32 inches (81 cm) tall and is made of steel-reinforced poured concrete.[2] Many are constructed with the embedded steel reinforcement protruding from each end, allowing them to be incorporated into permanent emplacements when linked to one another by sections of fresh concrete poured on-site

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_barrier





Cable median barrier is a style that's seen a big increase in usage the US over last 5 years. It's being used where medians are too wide for traditional concrete or steel




For what it's worth, I grew up in New Jersey and I've always just called it a divider.
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Old December 25th, 2011, 12:03 PM   #169
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Are cable barriers not extremely dangerous for motorcyclists?
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Old December 27th, 2011, 09:57 PM   #170
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How?
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Old December 27th, 2011, 10:57 PM   #171
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Quote:
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Are cable barriers not extremely dangerous for motorcyclists?
No, they are - just by contact connected with high speed they can e.g. cut motorcyclist's leg.
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Kiedy padł ten pierwszy strzał, Kosteczku, to wszystko się zaczęło, zaczęli strzelać ci grenszuce, których chłopcy jeszcze nie zdążyli rozbroić, i zaczęli strzelać ci chłopcy, którzy już mieli jakieś karabiny albo nulachty, i posypało się trochę strzałów. Słyszałeś krzyki:
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Old December 27th, 2011, 11:06 PM   #172
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Driving a motorcycle is statistically one of the most dangerous forms of transportation to begin with - cable / crash barriers or not.

Motorcycling is mostly a seasonal activity, and even then they are usually less than 1 percent of the traffic. It's just weighing in the disadvantages for motorcyclists and the advantages of cost and effectiveness.
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Old December 27th, 2011, 11:56 PM   #173
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To be honest, I'm motorcyclist, so I have motorcyclist's point of view. As I know, ordinary crash barriers are a lot more safe for motorcyclists than cable ones; therefore we can begin school discussion, if human life is able to count for any money...
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No půdź sam synek, půdź do nos sam, tu momy fajer, tu fajer jes, ja!

Kiedy padł ten pierwszy strzał, Kosteczku, to wszystko się zaczęło, zaczęli strzelać ci grenszuce, których chłopcy jeszcze nie zdążyli rozbroić, i zaczęli strzelać ci chłopcy, którzy już mieli jakieś karabiny albo nulachty, i posypało się trochę strzałów. Słyszałeś krzyki:
- Erich dostoł! - i do dziś nie wiesz, czy to krzyczał grenszuc, czy powstaniec.
Szczepan Twardoch, „Morfina”, o wybuchu I powstania śląskiego.
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Old December 28th, 2011, 12:06 AM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MajKeR_ View Post
To be honest, I'm motorcyclist, so I have motorcyclist's point of view. As I know, ordinary crash barriers are a lot more safe for motorcyclists than cable ones; therefore we can begin school discussion, if human life is able to count for any money...
Yes we could. If I have to chose between construction of new motorway somewhere where it would replace dangerous old 1x1 road, but I only would have enough money for it if on my network if I use cable crashbarriers. I would certainly do it. Life of a motorcyclist can be compared with life of anyone else. And If I can safe 2 automobilist with constructing something that would take life of one motorcyclist, I would do it.

On the other hand. Investment into traffic safety is in general overstreched compared e.g. to the investment into health sector. There, much less money would safe much more lives, then the money invested into a traffic safety... So nowhere goes the discussion... .
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Old December 28th, 2011, 12:23 AM   #175
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But nobody stated that ordinary barriers are worse. They're just more expensive. Perhaps not much, in comparison with whole cost of building new road.
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No půdź sam synek, půdź do nos sam, tu momy fajer, tu fajer jes, ja!

Kiedy padł ten pierwszy strzał, Kosteczku, to wszystko się zaczęło, zaczęli strzelać ci grenszuce, których chłopcy jeszcze nie zdążyli rozbroić, i zaczęli strzelać ci chłopcy, którzy już mieli jakieś karabiny albo nulachty, i posypało się trochę strzałów. Słyszałeś krzyki:
- Erich dostoł! - i do dziś nie wiesz, czy to krzyczał grenszuc, czy powstaniec.
Szczepan Twardoch, „Morfina”, o wybuchu I powstania śląskiego.
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Old December 28th, 2011, 12:31 AM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MajKeR_ View Post
To be honest, I'm motorcyclist, so I have motorcyclist's point of view. As I know, ordinary crash barriers are a lot more safe for motorcyclists than cable ones; therefore we can begin school discussion, if human life is able to count for any money...
Any reliable statistics about the motorcyclist fatality rate of hitting the crash barrier at say 120 kph? If it is 99.9% for cable barriers and 99.5% for concrete ones, I would not raise this as an issue.
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Old December 28th, 2011, 12:38 AM   #177
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I haven't them - it's what I've read on Polish SSC, but if I'm not mistaken, somebody brought statistics there.
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No půdź sam synek, půdź do nos sam, tu momy fajer, tu fajer jes, ja!

Kiedy padł ten pierwszy strzał, Kosteczku, to wszystko się zaczęło, zaczęli strzelać ci grenszuce, których chłopcy jeszcze nie zdążyli rozbroić, i zaczęli strzelać ci chłopcy, którzy już mieli jakieś karabiny albo nulachty, i posypało się trochę strzałów. Słyszałeś krzyki:
- Erich dostoł! - i do dziś nie wiesz, czy to krzyczał grenszuc, czy powstaniec.
Szczepan Twardoch, „Morfina”, o wybuchu I powstania śląskiego.
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Old December 28th, 2011, 11:59 AM   #178
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It's quite a difficult equation with a lot of factor at each side, so you cannot judge which type of crash-barrier is more dangerous. I'm a motorcyclist too, although I drive a 50cc and almost only in town, but still can see the dangers of the classic metal barriers too
With rope crash-barriers for example you will never see such incidents:







And I can assure you, I have seen some very horrible pictures of cars punctured by crashbarriers at horrific crashes... you can assume what are the consequences if it happens to go through any of the occupied seats.
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Old December 28th, 2011, 12:10 PM   #179
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I've never seen such an accident in the Netherlands and we mostly use traditional metal crash barriers.
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Old December 28th, 2011, 02:09 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by MajKeR_ View Post
But nobody stated that ordinary barriers are worse. They're just more expensive. Perhaps not much, in comparison with whole cost of building new road.
I will try to clarify

if > is better then, but unfortunatelly also more expensive

A. metal crashbarriers 2x2 > B. rope crashb. 2x2 > C. no crashb. 1x1

Given that we have some funds available we could chose between section being build partly as A and partly as C, or the whole section as B. It may happen that the lives loss from AC variant is greater then the lives loss from B variant. I would go for B then.
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