daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Development News Forums > Supertalls > Proposed Supertalls



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old August 27th, 2010, 02:27 AM   #421
RobertWalpole
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,607
Likes (Received): 2508

As for preservation, the overwhelming, vast majority of Manhattan's (and Brooklyn's) architecture pre-date WWII. Midtown has the most post-WWII structures, but this is a relatively small area compared to the rest of Manhattan. NY, by far, has the largest blocks of old buildings in the US (not just taking into account that it is the biggest city by far in the US).
RobertWalpole no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old August 27th, 2010, 02:29 AM   #422
Blue Flame
Get Silly!
 
Blue Flame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lexington,KY
Posts: 2,369
Likes (Received): 575

Quote:
Originally Posted by 599GTB View Post
It does!

But just imagine it in a few years with 1 WTC, 2 WTC, 3 WTC, 4 WTC, MoMA, 15 Penn Plaza, Carnegie 57 and hopefully 56 Leonard and 30 Park Place.

WOW.

Don't forget the Gira Sole 1000ft., everyone. Already under prep and just waiting for that subway thing above it to finish!


PS: Special props to 56 Leonard. That will be one of the world's most amazing buildings when it is done. It would have been ill if it was planned to be a supertall.
__________________
A cynic is nothing but a realist with experience.
Blue Flame no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 27th, 2010, 02:32 AM   #423
CULWULLA
Registered User
 
CULWULLA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 62,755
Likes (Received): 10135

wow 47-1 vote? great outcome, nice tower.
__________________
Sydney Harbour Bridge -1932, Sydney Opera House- 1973, Sydney Tower- 1981, Crown Sydney- 2020.. https://www.buildsydney.com/forum
CULWULLA no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 27th, 2010, 02:37 AM   #424
luci203
Registered User
 
luci203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,129
Likes (Received): 1202

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Flame View Post
PS: Special props to 56 Leonard. That will be one of the world's most amazing buildings when it is done. It would have been ill if it was planned to be a supertall.
It is amazing, but somehow look like it's "from another movie"

There's a place for buildings like that: Dubai
__________________
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says W T F...
luci203 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 27th, 2010, 02:51 AM   #425
breda076
Registered User
 
breda076's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Breda metropolitan area
Posts: 88
Likes (Received): 2

is this really going to be build(sorry for the bad english)
that would be awesome!
breda076 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 27th, 2010, 04:02 AM   #426
Emi Ang
Ideas are bulletproof
 
Emi Ang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Luis, Argentina
Posts: 4,771
Likes (Received): 1950

And the news already run Argentina (where Pelli is from)


http://blogs.lanacion.com.ar/en-foco...-empire-state/
Emi Ang no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 27th, 2010, 10:05 AM   #427
Febo
Soy Viejo, Deme!
 
Febo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Córdoba
Posts: 5,298
Likes (Received): 1233

Finally it came out!!!
__________________
Quiero un Pelli junto a Tarjeta Naranja, ¿pido mucho?
Febo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 27th, 2010, 12:40 PM   #428
musefreek
Registered User
 
musefreek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 235
Likes (Received): 5

has the news reached Mars and Venus yet?
musefreek no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 27th, 2010, 01:45 PM   #429
redbaron_012
Registered User
 
redbaron_012's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 11,562
Likes (Received): 3095

We got a pic and short story about this tower in todays 'Age' newspaper in Melbourne, Australia.Guess Mars and Venus must be next ?
PS..........I know New York can't stand still but I'm glad I looked south/west from 'Top of the Rock' before this one goes up......
__________________
"Make no small plans, for they have not power to stir the blood" - Daniel H. Burnham
redbaron_012 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 27th, 2010, 06:55 PM   #430
archnyer
Architecture Afficionado
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NEW YAWK
Posts: 116
Likes (Received): 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by CULWULLA View Post
wow 47-1 vote? great outcome, nice tower.
Not everyone agrees. If anything, most people in the city don't like it. We don't need to prove that we are Shanghai or London and build for the sake of it. This tower will detract from the look of Midtown. The problem isn't even the height of 15 Penn Plaza, but it's the sheer bulk and size of the building. It's too voluminous to be that close to the Empire State Building. I mean it's 900 feet away! You can read more about why I don't like the design here. http://bit.ly/cW1G9X So they give Tower Verre, potentially the best design for a supertall in the city in 80 years, a haircut but they let this one go through and manage to demolish what was once the best/biggest hotel in the world http://bit.ly/9FINh4 in one fell swoop? Someone please tell me that it's a bad dream.
__________________
aRcHnYeR from SleepNY!
archnyer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 27th, 2010, 06:59 PM   #431
droneriot
Urban Hermit
 
droneriot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cydonia Mensae
Posts: 4,664
Likes (Received): 2622



You actually believe that skyscrapers are built to "prove something"? You can't think of any other possible use for a tall building other than to boost the ego of its owner?

And skyscrapers in Shanghai and London, two of the most populous urban areas in the world, are built "for the sake of it"??
droneriot no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 27th, 2010, 08:33 PM   #432
Newcastle Guy
Registered User
 
Newcastle Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 9,096
Likes (Received): 317

Quote:
Originally Posted by archnyer View Post
Not everyone agrees. If anything, most people in the city don't like it. We don't need to prove that we are Shanghai or London and build for the sake of it. This tower will detract from the look of Midtown. The problem isn't even the height of 15 Penn Plaza, but it's the sheer bulk and size of the building. It's too voluminous to be that close to the Empire State Building. I mean it's 900 feet away! You can read more about why I don't like the design here. http://bit.ly/cW1G9X So they give Tower Verre, potentially the best design for a supertall in the city in 80 years, a haircut but they let this one go through and manage to demolish what was once the best/biggest hotel in the world http://bit.ly/9FINh4 in one fell swoop? Someone please tell me that it's a bad dream.
I wouldn't say London is 'building for the sake of it'. Or even Shanghai for that matter, I'd say that label may apply more to places like Dubai. The reason London has maintained it's position as one of the most powerful cities in the world is because it continues to evolve, New York would do well to remember that. Many people were opposed to the buildings we now look back at with very fond memories, change is required to keep a city fresh. I'm not saying that every case is the same and buildings of any size should go up regardless, but we cannot be too protective over our cities, it leads to stagnation. I do not know enough about this particular case to make a reasonable argument either way, but regarding the architecture of the project I think (with top-notch materials) it could be a very handsome building. It has good proportions, an elegant but understated top, and isn't too attention-seeking, which should be a good thing given it's location.
Newcastle Guy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 27th, 2010, 09:40 PM   #433
JohnFlint1985
I love New York
 
JohnFlint1985's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York - New Jersey
Posts: 15,621
Likes (Received): 6558

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teslatron View Post
Oh please.. Hotel Pennsylvania has no architectural value whatsoever. That entrance is the only semi-decent thing about the building. In real life it is a boring grey box with minimal architectural details, and the interior sucks big time. Small windows and rooms make it look like a renovated jail rather than a hotel.




All I see in this thread is a lot of butthurt from NJ crowd who are against it because it will block their view of ESB. If you want some great views of ESB so much why don't you relocate to New York City? You don't even pay taxes here so you don't decide jack shit. This and other high rise development projects on the West side will bring $$$ to the city and thats that. If you want to have ESB views, New Jersey should just buy the air rights on the West side of ESB and introduce ESB tax in the state, the revenue of which will go right into NYC coffers, then you might have a point.
Listen pal this is not about views from NJ, revenue to NJ and etc. I can't care less about these. I look at this new proposed tower and see nothing special about it. 366 meters - Geez this is high nowadays?! where the balls of our developers? they lost it in the process? This height is nothing and I see no point in breaking a historic hotel that can be turned into condos just to build another glass_nothing_special.

As for the rest of development on top of rail road yards - do they have the money? price that we are talking -- the low number is 15 billion dollars! did they even started on it? with a very close possibility of a double dip recession no one simply has this kind of money. much smaller projects are on hold. And what about Penn station, MSG and its redevelopment - I want to remind you it is stalled as of now due to lack of funds.

So I am almost positive that in this economy they will break the hotel and then they will announce that they have no money to do anything. It is an old story - same shit happened with very beautiful Drake hotel which was demolished in a much more prized location on Park avenue for some glass BS and even that was not built. the lot sits empty to this day since the developer defaulted on everything.
__________________
RIP QuantumX & Desertpunk

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.” Thomas Jefferson
"We Shall Never Surrender." Winston Churchill
“Not all those who wander are lost.” J.R.R. Tolkien
"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

Last edited by JohnFlint1985; August 28th, 2010 at 02:26 AM.
JohnFlint1985 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 27th, 2010, 09:48 PM   #434
JohnFlint1985
I love New York
 
JohnFlint1985's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York - New Jersey
Posts: 15,621
Likes (Received): 6558

Quote:
Originally Posted by 599GTB View Post
Hotel Pennsylvania is a borderline ugly building. I'm glad they're razing that filth!

I'm excited over this gleaming new tower for NYC!

NYC has lots of really tall buildings proposed and under construction. The city will look magnificent in a few years when they're up!!!! Can't wait!
do they have an iron clad promise to build or just another tentative deal? I'd say they have nothing.

as for hotel - it can be easily turned into a shiny something new. BTW the only market that is alive in NYC today is market for luxury apartments - not for office space. this is exactly why Silverstein had a year long problems with WTC construction - he has no tenants for the new OFFICE buildings so far. so the WTC towers 2 and 3 only will be build to grade until the new tenats will be secured which can be 10 years from now. Downtown is running 16%+ vacancy rate which is VERY HIGH. Midtown is a bit better but still there is no such a huge demand for office space at top prices today. on the other hand luxury apartments are sold none stop - like the new tower on 5th avenue and 35th street by ESB which is not finished yet.

I am for building skyscrapers - but first of all they should be worthy of Manhattan and they should have some new examples of height and architecture style. this tower has none of it.
__________________
RIP QuantumX & Desertpunk

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.” Thomas Jefferson
"We Shall Never Surrender." Winston Churchill
“Not all those who wander are lost.” J.R.R. Tolkien
"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin
JohnFlint1985 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 27th, 2010, 11:38 PM   #435
Uaarkson
Sheet Metal Sketcher
 
Uaarkson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: East Side Flint
Posts: 2,528
Likes (Received): 1031

I guess you missed that list of companies looking for millions of square feet of office space. Or the fact that an enormous number of leases are set to expire in the next two years.
__________________
Manhattan http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S1MySJoFl8&hd=1 (HD)
Uaarkson no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 28th, 2010, 02:19 AM   #436
JohnFlint1985
I love New York
 
JohnFlint1985's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York - New Jersey
Posts: 15,621
Likes (Received): 6558

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uaarkson View Post
I guess you missed that list of companies looking for millions of square feet of office space. Or the fact that an enormous number of leases are set to expire in the next two years.
no I didn't miss the list. but lets see this list materialize into something and then we can talk about knocking down more old stuff to make new. as of right now there are plenty of spaces to rent or to buy, but somehow the vacancy is not going down. and more space is on the way - the same WTC. I'd rather see WTC finally finished altogether after so many years of empty talk than demolish something which is not warranted as of right now.
__________________
RIP QuantumX & Desertpunk

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.” Thomas Jefferson
"We Shall Never Surrender." Winston Churchill
“Not all those who wander are lost.” J.R.R. Tolkien
"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin
JohnFlint1985 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 28th, 2010, 04:24 AM   #437
RobertWalpole
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,607
Likes (Received): 2508

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnFlint1985 View Post
no I didn't miss the list. but lets see this list materialize into something and then we can talk about knocking down more old stuff to make new. as of right now there are plenty of spaces to rent or to buy...
There are very few blocks of space equaling or exceeding 500k sf or more in new buildings. There is great demand. These companies want new space not old space.
RobertWalpole no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 28th, 2010, 07:42 AM   #438
JohnFlint1985
I love New York
 
JohnFlint1985's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York - New Jersey
Posts: 15,621
Likes (Received): 6558

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertWalpole View Post
There are very few blocks of space equaling or exceeding 500k sf or more in new buildings. There is great demand. These companies want new space not old space.
space is space and once the offices are built the insides are almost always gutted out. So getting only new space is a very tall otrder since in 10 years there simply will not be any more space there for new buildings to build anywhere. So companies will either have to demolish old skyscrapers on Park Ave for example or they have to Move to Brooklyn, Bronx, New Jersey and etc.

And once again I want to point out that WTC 2 and 3 is already being built, but there are simply no tenants for completely brand new office space. in fact according to late agreement between the developer and Port authority WTC towers 2 and 3 will only be built to street level and not further unless the developer anchored some solid, 100% proof tenants for 50% and up of the building office space. What makes you think that this tower will have more appeal than WTC? they will be finished all together at the same time if they will start now.

the place where the tower is proposed is not the heart of midtown - it is on the border of it actually - closer to Hells Kitchen which as of today is a trade district as best, not office one. just mere one block away to the west from this place there are bunch of old warehouses and some really crappy buildings. almost every other project in this neighborhood is on hold since you should spend 20 billion dollars to rebuild everything there before you see a single dime. and that includes Penn station, building a platform over the rail yards, buiilding a park, extending subway line and etc.
__________________
RIP QuantumX & Desertpunk

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.” Thomas Jefferson
"We Shall Never Surrender." Winston Churchill
“Not all those who wander are lost.” J.R.R. Tolkien
"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin
JohnFlint1985 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 28th, 2010, 08:03 AM   #439
Handbanana
Registered User
 
Handbanana's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 113
Likes (Received): 20



First off, companies can not always find space in already built structures. Even if they do, do you think they would prefer to reside in a modern skyscraper situated in Midtown with all the amenities of the modern world, or some crappy 3 story cube with lighting from the 70's? It's not always about finding space, but the quality of the building being leased.

Also, the entire World Trade Center site will not provide enough square footage for the various companies on the prowl for space. 7 WTC is almost completely occupied, and most of 1 WTC is already leased. 4 WTC is getting there, which pretty much leaves just 2 and 3 WTC. These possess combined square footage of approx. 4.5 million square feet.

The 2 biggest potential tenants, Bank of America and Morgan Stanley, are looking for 1 million square feet of space each. Combine that with the numerous other companies looking for space and the even larger number of leases that will expire soon, and you can see why there is a need for high quality, modern skyscrapers to be constructed.
Handbanana no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 28th, 2010, 02:13 PM   #440
RobertWalpole
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,607
Likes (Received): 2508

Conde Naste is moving out of a building that was built only about 10 years ago because it wants to occupy a new tower. Morgan Stanley plans to leave its building which was built about 20 years ago because it wants to occupy a new tower. That's how things work.
RobertWalpole no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
15 penn plaza, hotel pennsylvania, madison square garden, new york, new york project, penn station, vornado

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu