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Old April 28th, 2012, 03:33 PM   #901
RobertWalpole
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Fortunately, many fully intact areas of old buildings in Manhattan are landmarked. Unfortunately, not all sites have the same air rights. 15 Penn's site has over 2.5m, which is why the hotel is doomed.
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Old April 28th, 2012, 08:01 PM   #902
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertWalpole View Post
Fortunately, many fully intact areas of old buildings in Manhattan are landmarked. Unfortunately, not all sites have the same air rights. 15 Penn's site has over 2.5m, which is why the hotel is doomed.
Thank you Robert, I wanted someone to bring that up. Fact of the matter is that this hotel is in the wrong place at the wrong time. It is not land-marked, has 2.5m air rights, and New York is going through the largest architectural development since pre-great depression. Like Robert says, this place is doomed.
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Old April 28th, 2012, 09:50 PM   #903
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It seems, NYC doesn't really consider things like cityscape or urban psychology. Not even its grand past and historical value that is globally unique. It's not like the city is becoming more beautiful this way. Rather dull, faceless and inhuman.
erbse, look through the LPC's website and familiarize yourself with just how much of NY is landmarked because what I quoted is just simply factually incorrect.
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Old April 28th, 2012, 10:22 PM   #904
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This building's a goner. Sorry Erbse but it's in prime real estate and the hotel looks like a pile of junk now-a-days.
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Old April 28th, 2012, 11:11 PM   #905
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I'm aware of the landmarked zones. But more single buildings should be protected as well.
If you take just one tooth out of your ivories, it'll look uncomely. Ensembles should be protected too.


And still... Why not develop one of the 2 big sites just next to 15 Penn Plaza?
Just some 2 story crap buildings would have to be torn down, while adding a lot more density to the area.
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Old April 29th, 2012, 12:12 AM   #906
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
I'm aware of the landmarked zones. But more single buildings should be protected as well.
If you take just one tooth out of your ivories, it'll look uncomely. Ensembles should be protected too.


And still... Why not develop one of the 2 big sites just next to 15 Penn Plaza?
Just some 2 story crap buildings would have to be torn down, while adding a lot more density to the area.
Exactly, no idea why they wouldn't just tear down one of the 2 story buildings next to it.
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Old April 29th, 2012, 11:03 AM   #907
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Guys you really don't get it do you? The Hotel site has the 2,5m sqf air rights. Air rights can not be transferred to another site. If the city allows the developer to transfer air rights here there is a precedent and every other developer in the city will try to transfer air rights from less attractive plots to other more promising ones. So the city will not allow this. In the end it's either no new tower at all or demolishing the hotel.
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Old April 29th, 2012, 01:53 PM   #908
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Exactly, no idea why they wouldn't just tear down one of the 2 story buildings next to it.
As noted, those two little buildings don't have over 2.5m sf of air rights. In fact, this is probably the only site in the city (outside of the HY), with that many air rights in a single parcel that's either empty or unencumbered by scores of tenants with leases who would have to be bought out on expensive terms. It took Durst many, many years to assemble the BofA site, and ultimately, he had to rely upon the government's power of eminent domain, which plausibly could not be exercised elsewhere for a private development.
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Old April 30th, 2012, 12:47 AM   #909
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That's not completely true because you can't compare the US economy with those countries. NYC probably has a bigger economy than any Latin American country other than Brazil, and therefore, its demand for new towers cannot be compared to anywhere in the Americas.

That being said, in the US, there's no respect for the past.
That's absolute bullshit. What you guys fail to remember is that NYC had 10 million people by 1925, and it was the first city to ever surpass the 10 million mark. What's my point? NYC most likely has more buildings from 1925 and before than any other city on Earth. You can't cry every time a 90 year old building is knocked down, or you will never stop crying. Please, walk from Union Square to Tribeca, and you will see that 95% of the buildings along the way are no younger than 80 years old. History isn't just abundant in New York, history IS New York.

New York City has 109 designated National Historic Landmarks, that's more than 40 of the 50 states. Understand that? New York City has more national historic landmarks than 40 STATES! It has 3 times as many National Historic Landmarks as my state.

There are thousands of old buildings that look just like the Hotel Penn, it won't be all that sad to lose. If you want to see a building that looks just like it, please, walk across the street.

And what you guys fail to remember is that in a global city like NYC, adapting is necessary to maintain relevancy. If we seriously never demolished one building that people didn't want us to, nothing would get built. Furthermore, you're talking about Midtown, the most popular to place to build right now. I can't think of any logical argument to preserve a building right next to Penn Station and not far from Times Square, when it could be used for something so much more beneficial.

Last edited by royal rose1; April 30th, 2012 at 01:07 AM.
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Old May 1st, 2012, 01:55 PM   #910
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Old May 2nd, 2012, 07:56 AM   #911
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It still blows my mind that Tower Verre was forced to chop its height so as not to "detract" from the ESB, but this one is approved almost right next door to ESB! Usually my motto is "build baby, build!" but in this case, I couldn't possibly hate the project more. Let's hope the final decision is to renovate the existing building and kill this proposal for good.
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Old May 2nd, 2012, 12:18 PM   #912
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^ Totally agree here. In some way, the 15 Penn Plaza just feels like killing 2 NYC icons.
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Old May 2nd, 2012, 01:30 PM   #913
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It still blows my mind that Tower Verre was forced to chop its height so as not to "detract" from the ESB, but this one is approved almost right next door to ESB! Usually my motto is "build baby, build!" but in this case, I couldn't possibly hate the project more. Let's hope the final decision is to renovate the existing building and kill this proposal for good.
The final decision has already been made.
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Old May 2nd, 2012, 02:46 PM   #914
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Only if they've torn down the historical Hotel.
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Old May 2nd, 2012, 10:14 PM   #915
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Quote:
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^ Totally agree here. In some way, the 15 Penn Plaza just feels like killing 2 NYC icons.
Very true, I like 15 Penn, but Tower Verre is a work of art...
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 05:54 AM   #916
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Add a little more, like 100ft, and a spire, and it'll be like the 1wtc in midtown, lol.

ESB dwarfed the Chrysler.. it's only natural progression that the ESB will be dwarfed in time too
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 06:03 AM   #917
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Build it.
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Old May 4th, 2012, 12:10 AM   #918
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Yeah, that old hotel needs to go. You can't simply keep every old building in New York, they're definitely not as safe as a new building and they cost too much maintain.
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Old May 4th, 2012, 05:34 AM   #919
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^Not to mention there's absolutely nothing special about this stupid hotel.
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Old May 4th, 2012, 05:55 AM   #920
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I think it makes a great contrast to the ESB.
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