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Old May 4th, 2012, 07:18 PM   #921
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The hotel is beautiful, but it has to go. Think about it. Penn plaza will bring in more money, create thousands of new jobs, and it will look nice. The hotel is nearly 100 years old and it is falling apart. There are still many buildings in New York that are over a hundred years old, like the Flatiron Building and Grand Central Station. A little hotel is nothing compared to these great buildings. 15 Penn is a great building. If I created a top 10 buildings in midtown, 15 Penn Plaza would definitely be on that list.
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Old May 5th, 2012, 01:10 AM   #922
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It seems, NYC doesn't really consider things like cityscape or urban psychology. Not even its grand past and historical value that is globally unique.
It's not like the city is becoming more beautiful this way. Rather dull, faceless and inhuman.
Do you work for UNESCO or something? You're spitting out the same alarmist message on the 432 Park Ave thread.
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Old May 5th, 2012, 08:19 PM   #923
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The analogy is obvious, isn't it? Though the Drake that got torn down for the biggest box of the world is an even sadder loss than Penn Hotel will be...
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Old May 6th, 2012, 01:23 PM   #924
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Not everybody likes old buildings, then again, not everybody likes new buildings. I think the city should focused on a balanced approach in which some old buildings will be kept and some will make space for new ones. In my opinion in both the cases, 432 Park and 15 Penn, demolition of the old buildings on their place is justified.
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Old May 6th, 2012, 09:02 PM   #925
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They should redesign this to a Megatall 2000 footer.
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Old May 7th, 2012, 05:04 AM   #926
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I'm OK with that idea, very ok.
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Old May 7th, 2012, 11:10 AM   #927
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That's never going to happen
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Old May 7th, 2012, 12:44 PM   #928
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It's possible, but not probable. There have been such cases in history. For example the Twins were originaly designed to be only 90 stories but they added 20 stories to both of them to make them the tallest in the world. Also, the Willis Tower should have originally been 2 towers of half the height. But I don't think they would add so much height to 15 Penn. In my opinion it is improbable that they would add more than 60, maybe 70 meters, that is, if they add anything at all
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Old May 7th, 2012, 05:06 PM   #929
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It's possible, but not probable. There have been such cases in history. For example the Twins were originaly designed to be only 90 stories but they added 20 stories to both of them to make them the tallest in the world. Also, the Willis Tower should have originally been 2 towers of half the height. But I don't think they would add so much height to 15 Penn. In my opinion it is improbable that they would add more than 60, maybe 70 meters, that is, if they add anything at all
Not going to happen. This sites height is completely dictated by air rights. If Vornado had more air rights, they would build higher, but they don't, so they are not allowed to build any taller. Before you, or anyone else, says why don't they buy more air rights, I'm sure they would if it made economic sense, but since they haven't bought more rights, I'm sure it doesn't make sense or they are simply unable to do so.

And the WTC is not a good comparison. NY buildings are subject to some of the strictest building codes probably in the world, but because the Port Authority developed the original WTC, from a zoning and building code perspective, the original WTC wasn't a part of New York City so the NYC Department of Buidlings had no jurisdiction over the site. That's why the PA was able to build such massive buildings, without going through any approval process, and was allowed to increase the size of the buildings at their discretion.

But back to this building, this building will require a higher price per sf than the Hudson Yards, WTC, and probably Manhattan West, so this is 5-8 years away I'd guess.
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Old May 7th, 2012, 05:15 PM   #930
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You might be right. I dunno Vornado's budget and I dunno the cost of air rights at that spot so I can't confirm or deny this
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Old May 8th, 2012, 03:12 AM   #931
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I heard they just approved this one! This is going to look great with the skyline!
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Old May 8th, 2012, 03:24 AM   #932
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I heard they just approved this one! This is going to look great with the skyline!
It's been approved for a while has it not?
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Old May 8th, 2012, 04:20 AM   #933
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It's been approved for a while has it not?
Yeah, months.
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Old May 8th, 2012, 04:21 AM   #934
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correct, it was approved back in 2010 i believe
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Old May 8th, 2012, 12:07 PM   #935
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So why ain't anything happening there so far?
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Old May 8th, 2012, 01:04 PM   #936
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I dunno, but I guess they're waiting for some tenants, which I guess can be quite a wait considering the cheaper Hudson Yards and the WTC.
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Old May 9th, 2012, 07:18 AM   #937
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Quote:
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So why ain't anything happening there so far?
I'm sure it has something to do with, the train station below it. I'm thinking they redevelope that first.
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Old May 9th, 2012, 05:17 PM   #938
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Quote:
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Yeah, months.
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correct, it was approved back in 2010 i believe
Yeah thats what i thought. Just because that guy thought it had just been approved.
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Old May 9th, 2012, 11:59 PM   #939
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You might be right. I dunno Vornado's budget and I dunno the cost of air rights at that spot so I can't confirm or deny this
If anything, they will shorten it. With the ESB's owners and the power they have they will not let it happen.
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Old May 10th, 2012, 12:06 AM   #940
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If anything, they will shorten it. With the ESB's owners and the power they have they will not let it happen.
No. That will never happen. This tower was approved 47-1. They have the air rights necessary to build up to the stated height. If they did shorten it, they'd have to go through the approval process all over again, and since they own the ability to build a tower of this size they would literally be burning millions of dollars of bought but unused air rights.
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15 penn plaza, hotel pennsylvania, madison square garden, new york, new york project, penn station, vornado

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