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Old May 10th, 2012, 12:13 AM   #941
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000 View Post
No. That will never happen. This tower was approved 47-1. They have the air rights necessary to build up to the stated height. If they did shorten it, they'd have to go through the approval process all over again, and since they own the ability to build a tower of this size they would literally be burning millions of dollars of bought but unused air rights.
That's what I mean, it will stay the same, but there is more of a probability of it shortening than raising.
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Old May 10th, 2012, 02:35 AM   #942
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The owner of ESB already tried to fight it and lose.
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Old May 10th, 2012, 04:06 AM   #943
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That's what I mean, it will stay the same, but there is more of a probability of it shortening than raising.
Yankeesfan is correct. This won't be built a cm shorter than the approved height.
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Old May 10th, 2012, 05:44 PM   #944
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This doesn't need to be shortened, it needs to be relocated.
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Old May 10th, 2012, 05:52 PM   #945
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+1. The design is amazing. But it should be located somewhere else. IMO the areas arround ESB, should be kept as they are now, so it will stand taller
But 15penn, kinda ruins that idea...
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Old May 10th, 2012, 08:04 PM   #946
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The ESB is the Eiffel Tower of Manhattan. People still don't reckon its symbolic factor.

There are certain limits to density, too.
In addition, the ensemble around Penn Hotel should be taken care of. There aren't too many such areas in Manhattan anymore.
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Old May 10th, 2012, 08:09 PM   #947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
The ESB is the Eiffel Tower of Manhattan. People still don't reckon its symbolic factor.

There are certain limits to density, too.
In addition, the ensemble around Penn Hotel should be taken care of. There aren't too many such areas in Manhattan anymore.
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Old May 10th, 2012, 08:33 PM   #948
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
The ESB is the Eiffel Tower of Manhattan. People still don't reckon its symbolic factor.

There are certain limits to density, too.
In addition, the ensemble around Penn Hotel should be taken care of. There aren't too many such areas in Manhattan anymore.
They will take care of it, By knock the Hotel Penn down lol. And I'm sorry to break to you but the Hotel Penn and ESB aren't in the same league. One is trash and the other isn't. I say sweep away the trash and cleaning it up with Penn Plaza.
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Old May 11th, 2012, 01:32 AM   #949
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Why to people think this will take away from ESB? The ESB will still be there in all its glory. ESB is still taller. This will not devalue the ESB.
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Old May 11th, 2012, 02:04 AM   #950
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This doesn't need to be shortened, it needs to be relocated.
Ugh. ENOUGH already.
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Old May 11th, 2012, 02:14 AM   #951
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
The ESB is the Eiffel Tower of Manhattan. People still don't reckon its symbolic factor.

There are certain limits to density, too.
In addition, the ensemble around Penn Hotel should be taken care of. There aren't too many such areas in Manhattan anymore.
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Old May 11th, 2012, 02:31 AM   #952
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If anything, they will shorten it. With the ESB's owners and the power they have they will not let it happen.
There is an overhanging threat of litigation by ESB backers that cooled off when Vornado decided to keep the hotel open longer but it will all heat up again when Vornado applies for the demolition permit. The ESB has been undergoing an extensive green renovation to boost their profile and increase rents. If it's fully leased back up by the time 15 Penn gets started, their owners will be less antagonistic, IMHO.

As to when 15 Penn gets going, the tower will be built as market conditions improve. They were on the verge of signing a lease with Merrill Lynch when the GFC hit. Meanwhile, Hudson Yards and Manhattan West are competing fiercely for tennants. Vornado is looking for a blue chip [financial] firm with deep pockets. That narrows their options considerably, especially given the headwinds being faced by the banking industry.
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Old May 11th, 2012, 03:40 AM   #953
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There is an overhanging threat of litigation by ESB backers that cooled off when Vornado decided to keep the hotel open longer but it will all heat up again when Vornado applies for the demolition permit.
This has been approved by the city. Therefore, any litigation that is filed will be dismissed with a pre-answer motion to dismiss.
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Old May 11th, 2012, 03:47 AM   #954
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This has been approved by the city. Therefore, any litigation that is filed will be dismissed with a pre-answer motion to dismiss.
Never underestimate the stubbornness, the deviousness, the sheer EVIL of NIMBYs!
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Old May 11th, 2012, 03:48 AM   #955
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Never underestimate the stubbornness, the deviousness, the sheer EVIL of NIMBYs!
They can file anything that they want, but it would be dismissed outright before the litigation proceeded.
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Old May 13th, 2012, 02:17 AM   #956
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
The ESB is the Eiffel Tower of Manhattan. People still don't reckon its symbolic factor.

There are certain limits to density, too.
In addition, the ensemble around Penn Hotel should be taken care of. There aren't too many such areas in Manhattan anymore.
Everything has its time in the sun. I think while ESB has had a great run for being a symbol for mid-town, with the number of supertalls multiplying so quickly in midtown, especially several around 34th, it's time as the undisputed symbol will come to an end one way or another.

As for being a symbol of architectural brilliance, that crown still belongs to Chrysler; ESB is rather a well designed but plain by art deco standards building. I don't think it's smart to continue to claim its uniqueness after it's long been caught up by many others in the manhattan.
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Old May 13th, 2012, 02:25 AM   #957
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it will be such a paperweight from New Jersey
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Old May 13th, 2012, 07:04 PM   #958
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Everything has its time in the sun. I think while ESB has had a great run for being a symbol for mid-town, with the number of supertalls multiplying so quickly in midtown, especially several around 34th, it's time as the undisputed symbol will come to an end one way or another.

As for being a symbol of architectural brilliance, that crown still belongs to Chrysler; ESB is rather a well designed but plain by art deco standards building. I don't think it's smart to continue to claim its uniqueness after it's long been caught up by many others in the manhattan.
I believe that the ESB and Chrysler will always be icons in NYC even though they may be obscured by other buildings in the future...but they will always be a part of the skyline.
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Old May 14th, 2012, 12:00 PM   #959
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Of course they will be, as (hopefully) they won't ever be torn down. You completely failed to get the point...


If you're fine with NYC losing its main historical landmarks from important vantage points, given. I'm not.

Imagine the Statue of Liberty surrounded and hidden by taller random highrises. Quite an analogy.
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Last edited by erbse; May 14th, 2012 at 06:08 PM.
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Old May 14th, 2012, 02:28 PM   #960
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It is the way of skyscrapers to leave the skyline to new ones once the time comes. Forcibly keeping a skyline for old buildings is simply unnatural
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