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Old March 6th, 2013, 07:42 PM   #1081
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Originally Posted by JohnFlint1985 View Post
...Apartments - it is very possible. But offices - doubt it.
Zero percent chance of that happening. This site is zoned for commercial usage, and should remain so.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 08:56 PM   #1082
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They cannot. They went through an extensive city review just to move air rights to that site. Air rights can only be transferred as of right from literally adjacent properties.
hopefully the midtown east rezoning discussion that's about to happen in the next few months will raise the issue of air rights transfer within a zone or district instead of adjacent lots...hopefully that becomes a viable option and a needed reform that balances development and preservation...with that said, the area around MSG will eventually become one of those zones, if such precedent is set...

now, let's dream for once: MSG's permit is not renewed and it's forced to move in 10-15 years, 2-3 m air rights above MSG are released...the 2 m above Penn Hotel are transferred to the MSG site, incentivize the developer to partially rebuild the Penn station on the 7th av side for additional air rights...so what do we get, a 2000-2500ft ++++ new icon for New York

Last edited by ophizer; March 6th, 2013 at 10:11 PM.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 09:11 PM   #1083
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Given all of the competition from the HY and the GCT rezoning, Vornado did not stand a chance to land a tenant (nor does Brookfield at MW). This will be resurrected, as no developer will squander a site with 2.5m sf in air rights, especially one solely occupied by a hotel that can be readily emptied. That being said, it won't happen for at least 10 years.
This is unfortunate, but you are probably right.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 09:25 PM   #1084
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This is unfortunate, but you are probably right.
so let's come back in 10 years
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Old March 6th, 2013, 09:41 PM   #1085
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by the time we hear about a replacement, talk about overshadowing the Empire State Building will be obsolete
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Old March 6th, 2013, 09:53 PM   #1086
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With all the major projects currently underway in the city, and the stagnant condition of the current US economy, it is inevitable that some projects will not be built any time soon. When the time is right this will be built. A property zoned for 2.5 million sq ft is too valuable to not utilize.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 09:54 PM   #1087
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Pity, because they were going to renovate the old tunnel between Penn Station and the Path Station. Now that will never happen. NY transit agency is out of cash, and it needs all the help it can get from the private sector for major infrastructure investments. This was more important than the supertall.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 10:05 PM   #1088
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i'm glad this building gets a new lease on life...15 penn would have been a fat, faceless slab of concrete and glass that did nothing to address the city's long term growth

the area needs a complete re-imagining, something akin to what was considered a few years ago when the MSG could have moved to the Farley annex

Last edited by ophizer; March 6th, 2013 at 10:16 PM.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 10:17 PM   #1089
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Pity, because they were going to renovate the old tunnel between Penn Station and the Path Station. Now that will never happen. NY transit agency is out of cash, and it needs all the help it can get from the private sector for major infrastructure investments. This was more important than the supertall.
What tunnel are you referring to?
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Old March 6th, 2013, 10:34 PM   #1090
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So they're keeping that crummy old building?
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Old March 6th, 2013, 10:38 PM   #1091
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So they're keeping that crummy old building?
it's not ascrummy as when this was first proposed but yeah it'll be around for at least a decade
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Old March 7th, 2013, 03:27 AM   #1092
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So 15 Penn is a dead plan...at least for another 10 years or forever?
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Old March 7th, 2013, 03:29 AM   #1093
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So 15 Penn is a dead plan...at least for another 10 years or forever?
I'd say for ten years.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 03:37 AM   #1094
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Shame. Hopefully, they refine the design to make it more iconic.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 05:20 AM   #1095
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What tunnel are you referring to?
The passageway underneath that was closed years ago. The deal was to renovate and widen that as part of the zoning adjustment. It was very important to allow passengers to get to penn station from herald square without going up to the street.

A major blow for NYC transit infrastructure modernization.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 05:34 AM   #1096
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Now that 15 Penn Plaza has been essentially cancelled, can the Hotel Pennsylvania get torn down after it turns 100 (in 2023) so a different large office building can be built in the 2020s decade?
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Old March 7th, 2013, 05:56 AM   #1097
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Now that 15 Penn Plaza has been essentially cancelled, can the Hotel Pennsylvania get torn down after it turns 100 (in 2023) so a different large office building can be built in the 2020s decade?
Why not? They still have the zoning to do that.

Also, the transit improvements are required as part of any new tower.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 06:14 AM   #1098
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It's time to cancel this thread. It can be revived in a few years. Hopefully, in the meantime, Vornado will give this great building the TLC that it deserves.



They should restore the two story lobby that has been ruined and made into one, cramped floor.

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Old March 7th, 2013, 06:32 AM   #1099
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It's time to cancel this thread. It can be revived in a few years. Hopefully, in the meantime, Vornado will give this great building the TLC that it deserves.



They should restore the two story lobby that has been ruined and made into one, cramped floor.

Last time I looked, people still want to discuss. There is no reason to close the thread just because you want that.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 08:06 AM   #1100
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They should make it the grand hotel it used to be. It is a good idea to save it.
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15 penn plaza, hotel pennsylvania, madison square garden, new york, new york project, penn station, vornado

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