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Old June 14th, 2008, 11:11 PM   #61
CarlitosPanama
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True is that Panama is far for being the best city in Latin America and also having the best development in the world, but as a seasoned Investment Banker/Economist I am (NYC, Sao Paulo, Dubai, now Abu Dhabi) Man for a country the size of Panama, undeniable poor (as compared to similar booming places: i.e. Dubai, Qatar, China, etc), undeniably the boom and development that Panama has had through many decades and particularly in the last 5 years it is just UNVELIBABLE, AMAZING! and if you were to do a fair scale considering GDP/population, non-reliance in foreign talent then Panama would easily beat places such as Dubai, Abu Dhabi, and the like. These places have much better developments and projects, but man..those people don't do anything for those projects, they "buy" the brains from abroad (including mine with easy money, they don't input even talent, they get money basically for free with all this huge increase in oil prices, if they were in the same situation as Panama, I can assure you they would not even have a 30-story building, because they lack what Panama has in abundance: talent and hard work! I am sorry if I sound a bit chauvinist but I just think that what Panama has reached alone ( now proving wrong all those jealous Latin American countries that were all the time saying that Panama had been stable and relatively rich due to the US-help, which was never fully true btw!, what do you have to say now? the Americans left Panama and we are much better off, how come if were supposed to be dependant on their help to even survive? What do you have to say now?????????????
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Old June 15th, 2008, 08:05 PM   #62
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Just for the record, the biggest compilation of >>projects and construction<< in Mexico City by 2012

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Old June 15th, 2008, 08:59 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Skyline_FFM View Post
Panama is poor? Where did you get that bright information from? It is one of the most developed countries in Lain America along with Chile and Uruguay!


"Although Panama is also the 3rd largest economy in Central America, after Guatemala and Costa Rica, it has the largest expenditure on resource consumption, making the country the largest consumer in Central America" - From Wikipedia

Last edited by iemanja; June 16th, 2008 at 12:20 AM.
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Old June 15th, 2008, 09:03 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Skyline_FFM View Post
Sao Paulo is the odd man out. It is NOT a developed city! Panama is surely more developed...

São Paulo is the 19th richest city of the world and is expected to be the 13th richest in 2020.[28] According to data of IBGE, its Gross domestic product (GDP) in 2005 was R$ 263,177,148,000.00 (US$ 156,280,780,941.00), equivalent to approximately 12.26% of the Brazilian GDP and 36% of all production of goods and services of the State of São Paulo.[29]

One of the biggest financial centres of Brazil and the world, São Paulo's economy is going through a deep transformation. Once a city with a strong industrial character, São Paulo's economy has become increasingly based on the tertiary sector, focusing on services and businesses for the country.

Many analysts point to São Paulo as an important global city, even though this assignment can be criticized considering its serious problems of social exclusion and spacial segregation.[30] Although being the most important financial centre of the country, São Paulo's economy also presents a high degree of informality.[31]

The São Paulo Stock Exchange (BM&F Bovespa) is Brazil's official stock and bonds exchange. The BM&F Bovespa is the largest stock exchange in Latin America and third largest in the world.[32]

The GDP for the city was R$ 263,177,148,000 (2005).[33]

The per capita income for the city was R$ 24,083 (2005).[34]

from Wikipedia -


If Sao Paulo was a country in CENTRAL AMERICA, it would be the richest, and I am just talking about the city of Sao Paulo, not the state.

You can be proud of your small country because it is growing and building cool buildings, but saying that Panama is the capital of LATIN AMERICA is nonsense. Maybe the capital of CENTRAL AMERICA.

Last edited by iemanja; June 16th, 2008 at 12:32 AM.
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Old June 16th, 2008, 01:06 AM   #65
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And you are so childish to take it literal???, a few years ago Miami was referred as the Capital of Latin America even if it was in the US, that doesn´t mean is really the capital. Is just an "expression", in terms of being a city were many investments are made right now in Latin America, is not like is really THE Capital. That information is based on true facts, is you don´t want to believe me I really don´t care, is not my problem that the chauvinist is being other that can't handle this info.
How arrogant can we latinamericans be? For sure, Panama is having a nice development last years but It does not make it a first world country and It definetly don't make the Panama City latinamerica capital city... but if someday Bolivars dream come true I'm 100% sure that the capital would be Sao Paulo or maybe Buenos Aires but sure not Panama City.

I recomend you panameños just to enjoy your growth not tring to look better, cuz you are not.
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Old June 16th, 2008, 01:32 AM   #66
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lol, you really have nothing else to say, that´s ok, what´s important is that this thread is causing reactions, and that´s a good thing.
you are right... I am not sure if you want me to elaborate or expand on what I have said already. Help me here.
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Old June 16th, 2008, 04:18 AM   #67
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you are right... I am not sure if you want me to elaborate or expand on what I have said already. Help me here.
You are on your own, sorry
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Old June 16th, 2008, 04:32 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by MARACUCHisimo View Post
How arrogant can we latinamericans be? For sure, Panama is having a nice development last years but It does not make it a first world country and It definetly don't make the Panama City latinamerica capital city... but if someday Bolivars dream come true I'm 100% sure that the capital would be Sao Paulo or maybe Buenos Aires but sure not Panama City.

I recomend you panameños just to enjoy your growth not tring to look better, cuz you are not.
Well right now, that´s the way many magazines are seeing Panama as, the new discovery of Latin America, I´m not talking of first world, we are still far away from it , I think this only has to do with the boom and the hype Panama is having, I just don´t understand why some people get so angry with a comment based on what a magazine has to say about Panama, is only a comment is not the absolute true, or is degrading to other Latin American cities, is just the way some people (investors) are seeing the city right now, if you only read the article you will now what is the real meaning when Panama is called the new Capital of Latin America, is just the title of an article talking about the advantages of Panama, and that´s it, is like saying is the new city were many eyes are looking at, that´s all, not to think it will reallly become or is the REAL capital of Latin America, because that city doesn´t even exist, some people just don´t get it, that´s a shame to misintereprate this comments, and to think we are showing off or something, is just sad let me tell you, and is not the intention of this thread, but if you see the comments all ofensive comments come from other Latin forumers, that´s just very awful.
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Old June 16th, 2008, 05:13 AM   #69
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Well right now, that´s the way many magazines are seeing Panama as, the new discovery of Latin America, I´m not talking of first world, we are still far away from it , I think this only has to do with the boom and the hype Panama is having, I just don´t understand why some people get so angry with a comment based on what a magazine has to say about Panama, is only a comment is not the absolute true, or is degrading to other Latin American cities, is just the way some people (investors) are seeing the city right now, if you only read the article you will now what is the real meaning when Panama is called the new Capital of Latin America, is just the title of an article talking about the advantages of Panama, and that´s it, is like saying is the new city were many eyes are looking at, that´s all, not to think it will reallly become or is the REAL capital of Latin America, because that city doesn´t even exist, some people just don´t get it, that´s a shame to misintereprate this comments, and to think we are showing off or something, is just sad let me tell you, and is not the intention of this thread, but if you see the comments all ofensive comments come from other Latin forumers, that´s just very awful.
Did you write your signature? It says Panamá 2020 First World Country and "King Of Heights" in all Latin America.

Is nice to enjoy this projects, because if some of them were built in my city I would be completely amazed and showing off... but you are saing that you are the best while the truth is that you are not even close to be the best. Remember some years ago when Panama wasn't so famouse even for latinamericans, "A Kingdom cannot be build in 10, 20 or 30 years, It takes time" and so many countries in America have lot more time building a Kingdom like Colombia, Argentina, Mexico, Venezuela, Brazil, Peru, Chile and more.

Don't lose the focus
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Old June 16th, 2008, 06:46 AM   #70
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Did you write your signature? It says Panamá 2020 First World Country and "King Of Heights" in all Latin America.

Is nice to enjoy this projects, because if some of them were built in my city I would be completely amazed and showing off... but you are saing that you are the best while the truth is that you are not even close to be the best. Remember some years ago when Panama wasn't so famouse even for latinamericans, "A Kingdom cannot be build in 10, 20 or 30 years, It takes time" and so many countries in America have lot more time building a Kingdom like Colombia, Argentina, Mexico, Venezuela, Brazil, Peru, Chile and more.

Don't lose the focus
Is just a signature man, that doesn`t mean is going to happen in 12 years, I`m not Nostradamus, but neither you, maybe it could happen in 20 or 30 years, for example Singapore wasn`t developed in the 60`s, and is now considered a developed country, and you are right at something, a Kingdom can`t be build in 10 or 30 years, but we didn`t start now, as any other country underdevelopment, the process started many decades ago.
Is just a way to be positive, don`t make such a big deal of what my signature says, I think is not bad to think your country could be developed at some moment in the future, I couldn`t be more focused on what I want for my country, and what problems need to be solved in order to take us to the first world, maybe you should do the same for your country instead of complaining so much for what I think about mine.
Oh and one more thing, nobody is saying that Panama is the best country ever, (you are interpreting that), I'm just saying that is having it's moment, and if my signature says "king of heights", this just represents the phenomenon we are seeing right now, I don`t know in 2020 who is going to have the highest skyscrapers, neither you, It could be Panama or it could be any other Latin country, but what's true is that having the highest buildings doesn't mean a country is better than other, I know that, I hope you too,
because it seems that's what you think, not me.
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Old June 16th, 2008, 07:46 AM   #71
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Mi amigo! It seems you are either young, or did not ready my prior post in which I mentioned that Panama for many DECADES AGO has been perhaps the most relevant business and trade center in Latin America. I remember two decades ago when most of the countries of LATAM were just "F*%&$ with high inflation, wars, extreme poverty (including the now so called "more developed" Chile, Mexico and Brazil) Panama was way more stable as opposed to them, people, companies from all over the world coming to invest and live in Panama because of the USD and peace, not to mention the beauty of the country! So IT IS NOT NOW THAT PANAMA IS FAMOUS! How about when the Panama Canal was build! which city in LATAM do you think was the focus in the world? YOU ARE SO RIGHT..in the sense that now FOR THE SAME REASON: THE EXPANSION OF THE PANAMA CANAL... The country once again is resounding all over the WORLD.

I live in Dubai and Abu Dhabi, and can tell you....even here....the arabs and your compatriotas...ONLY COME TO ME..TO EXPRESS ME HOW IMPRESS THEY ARE OF PANAMA DEVELOPMENT AND REAL ESTATE BOOM (the RE boom is certainly new and has surprised even myself)....

But don't get me wrong my friend, and I have told people in the Panama's forum to keep their feet on the ground and don't loose focus as you said! They are many better cities than Panama, I agree Sao Paolo, Rio de Janeiro, Buenos Aires, and many of the Colombian cities...in regards to culture and perhaps an nicer weather, but talking strictly about business....PANAMA has the best potential...and it is FRUSTRATING to see that the Panamanian government has not fully exploited that potential...PANAMA IS SO EASY TO SELL..AND THEY BASICALLY SCREWING IT (The Government)..as either they are selling it too cheap, or just to the wrong investors!

I do think (and please..I am thinking as professional investor, which I am)..that Panama, given it's gepgraphical position (in the very middle of both south and north and Atlantic and Pacific, plus a long-established reputation as a busienss/banking/shipping center (gained for more than a century) is the best place to establish A LATIN AMERICAN BUSINESS HUB!, which Panama already it is to a certain extent..but it could do SO MUCH BETTER!!!!!!!!!!!!

THE POINT: PANAMA HAS BEEN FAMOUS IN THE BUSINESS, AND EVEN REAL ESTATE FIELD FOR MANY YEARS...(I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN..PANAMA IS A NEW PHENOMENON, YOU ARE WAY WRONG!!!!!) JUST LOOK AT THE EXISTING SKYLINE IN PANAMA CITY AND YOU WILL SEE...NOT TO MENTION THAT IN 5 YEARS..PANAMA'S SKYLINE WILL SIMPLY BE THE BEST, THE LONGEST, MORE DENSE, MODERN, MORE BEAUTIFUL TO SEE SKYLINE IN LATIN AMERICA (which it is already btw! IT IS JUST THAT IN 5-8 YERS..IT WILL BE AMAZING!...I am not necessarily saying that will have the better designed buildings, though).


Quote:
Originally Posted by MARACUCHisimo View Post
Did you write your signature? It says Panamá 2020 First World Country and "King Of Heights" in all Latin America.

Is nice to enjoy this projects, because if some of them were built in my city I would be completely amazed and showing off... but you are saing that you are the best while the truth is that you are not even close to be the best. Remember some years ago when Panama wasn't so famouse even for latinamericans, "A Kingdom cannot be build in 10, 20 or 30 years, It takes time" and so many countries in America have lot more time building a Kingdom like Colombia, Argentina, Mexico, Venezuela, Brazil, Peru, Chile and more.

Don't lose the focus
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Old June 16th, 2008, 08:16 AM   #72
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So long as here are corrupt people in Latin America and drug dealers seeking to hide booty, a Panama will exist.

As far as a center of stability ....are we forgeting the US invasion not too long ago?
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Old June 16th, 2008, 09:03 AM   #73
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NO...WE ARE NOT FORGETTING ABOUT ANY US MILITARY ACTIONS IN PANAMA OR NORIEGA, OR DICTATORSHIP WE HAD ABOUT 20 YEARS AGO...YET......AND I REPEAT..YET..COMPARED TO MOST LATIN AMERICAN COUNTRIES (MAINLY THOSE THAT NOW SAY THE ARE THE BEST)..THAT WAS LIKE A BREEZE!

REGARDING YOUR COMMENT ABOUT DRUG DEALING..(I GUESS YOU ARE YOU IMPLYING THAT PANAMA'S BOOM IS THE RESULT OF MONEY LAUNDRY)...I DON'T KNOW..THAT MIGHT WELL BE THE CASE...AS IT IS IN DUBAI, OR MANY OTHER PLACES IN THE WORLD TO A CERTAIN DEGREE! But are you implying that all those investors from Spain, USA, Israel, France, UK and other countries that are establishing projects in Panama are involved in money laundry? and how about the VENEZUELAN that are currently one of the biggest groups of investors in Panama? ARE THEY ALSO CORRUPT AND INVOLVED IN MONEY LAUNDRY? OR..FINALLY ..ARE YOU SAYING THAT ALL THE COLOMBIAN INVESTORS IN PANAMA ARE CORRUPTED AND INVOLVED IN MONEY LAUNDRY? (WHICH, OF COURSE CANNOT POSSIBLY BE THE CASE)?.......

The boom that is going on in Panama is the result of people appreciating a country that offers a great mix of natural beauty, safeness, good prices, strategic geographic position, great infrastructure and facilities (schools, hospitals, etc).....and a long history of immigrants coming to Panama and making it big! Just ask the Arabs, the Jewish, the Indians, the Chinese and the Americans living in Panama!

Finally, I make it clear that I am not denying that there might be instances of money laundry and corrupt Panamanians involved in all this real estate boom, but having seen SO MUCH WORST in Dubai and Abu Dhabi (where I have lived for more than 2 years)...then I feel more than comfortable with what MIGHT be going on in Panama)...

Please don't feel attacked or think that we are being arrogant (though I think you will have a very hard time trying to find a Panamanian that is not self- secure that we have a great country and that we have nothing relevant to ask even to developed countries).........it is just that is simply very suspicious that many latin American countires are always trying to bring Panama down....Common look at our size, even the size of the economy and see how much noise we are making around the world (and it's just the beginning) and rethink your position! I am sure that if it were big countries such as Brazil, Mexico and Argentina having this sort of attention that would not be a problem! but because Panama is such a small country then...it is suspicious and it is wrong!

And finally, I let you know..that the boom that Panama is having is just a fraction of what it could be! The potential is SO HUGE...that I just think that the Panamanian Goverment is just "SLOW" at marketing the country!!!!!!!! For you!
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So long as here are corrupt people in Latin America and drug dealers seeking to hide booty, a Panama will exist.

As far as a center of stability ....are we forgeting the US invasion not too long ago?

Last edited by CarlitosPanama; June 16th, 2008 at 11:14 AM.
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Old June 16th, 2008, 09:10 AM   #74
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Just one curious comment! The Capital of Latin America Sao Paulo?????? (where Spanish is not even spoken) or Buenos Aires (when they don't even want to be, or (apparently) consider themselves part of Latin America). LOL LOL LOL ..I have lived and worked in both cities...and hell..those are great cities....better than Panama in many senses...but Capital of Latin America...I don't think so!

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Old June 16th, 2008, 09:19 AM   #75
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So long as here are corrupt people in Latin America and drug dealers seeking to hide booty, a Panama will exist.

As far as a center of stability ....are we forgeting the US invasion not too long ago?
I´m tired of arguing with people like you that live in the past (in the 80's apparently), that think they know something about Panama for what they read on a novel, that can't deal with the fact that Panama has many legal reasons to invest, and if there is money laundry involved I can't neither denie it or prove it, but what I know is that is not the motor of this boom and growth of the country, and about stability, yes, Panama is very well known for having a stable and strong democracy, is really a very stable country since many years ago, Panama even abolished his army almost 2 decades ago.
Please keep it coming, I want to know what else you think about Panama, seems you love my country.
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Old June 16th, 2008, 09:48 AM   #76
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Trump Ocean Club and Pearl Tower updates (6/15/08), thx Panaboom

Trump Ocean Club
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Pearl Tower
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Old June 16th, 2008, 09:55 AM   #77
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Los Faros de Panamá updates (6/15/08)

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To see the renders of the buildings go to the first page of this thread.
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Old June 16th, 2008, 12:41 PM   #78
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LOL LOL LOL Just an afterthought! For many decades some jealous people were saying that Panama was dependant on the US for its subsistence! LOL LOL LOL HOW FUNNY!!! AND EMBARRASED THOSE PEOPLE SHOULD BE TO BE SO JEALOUS ...Now that the Americans fully left OUR COUNTRY (though US secretly always wanted Panama to be part of the US, because of the Canal and, again, OUR super strategic geographical position)...then now..the great development that we are experiencing without the Americans, and without having commodities (i.e. oil, gas, etc)..then our development is due to MONEY-LAUNDRY!! LOL LOL LOL... HILARIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old June 16th, 2008, 12:48 PM   #79
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No, I mean Sao Paulo, in the past few years Sao Paulo´s government has tried to introduce this city to the world as a tourist friendly, cosmpolitan, very culturized city, with museums, world class restaurants, luxury hotels, etc, even has a commercial that you can see on cable tv were all this I´m telling you appears,
http://www.cidadedesaopaulo.com/ingles/index_eng.asp
so yes, it has tourist sites, and also business sites.
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=fWd1DXjBsmI
Sorry, but every mid-sized city in Euope and the US has more and better museums than Sao Paulo. And honestly, I wouldn't cross the Ocean 11,000 km to go to Sao Paulo and visit museums and restaurants (in Frankfurt, the cuisine is represented by 160 nations, Sao Paulo 55 from what I read in a city guide) when there are things that are far more interesting for European tourists like the North East, Iguazu Falls and the Amazon.... The hotels and museums may be a nice thing to go if you are there for business, but not for a tourist!!!
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Old June 16th, 2008, 12:54 PM   #80
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São Paulo is the 19th richest city of the world and is expected to be the 13th richest in 2020.[28] According to data of IBGE, its Gross domestic product (GDP) in 2005 was R$ 263,177,148,000.00 (US$ 156,280,780,941.00), equivalent to approximately 12.26% of the Brazilian GDP and 36% of all production of goods and services of the State of São Paulo.[29]

One of the biggest financial centres of Brazil and the world, São Paulo's economy is going through a deep transformation. Once a city with a strong industrial character, São Paulo's economy has become increasingly based on the tertiary sector, focusing on services and businesses for the country.

Many analysts point to São Paulo as an important global city, even though this assignment can be criticized considering its serious problems of social exclusion and spacial segregation.[30] Although being the most important financial centre of the country, São Paulo's economy also presents a high degree of informality.[31]

The São Paulo Stock Exchange (BM&F Bovespa) is Brazil's official stock and bonds exchange. The BM&F Bovespa is the largest stock exchange in Latin America and third largest in the world.[32]

The GDP for the city was R$ 263,177,148,000 (2005).[33]

The per capita income for the city was R$ 24,083 (2005).[34]

from Wikipedia -


If Sao Paulo was a country in CENTRAL AMERICA, it would be the richest, and I am just talking about the city of Sao Paulo, not the state.

You can be proud of your small country because it is growing and building cool buildings, but saying that Panama is the capital of LATIN AMERICA is nonsense. Maybe the capital of CENTRAL AMERICA.
The city with the 19th largest GDP, not the 19th richest. Since the city is the 5th biggest city in the world, it is a very small economy though, not to forget the income disparity is awful and of the worst in the whole country! Nad it would not be the RICHEST country, since per capita it is still behind some other countries in Latin America. Mexico City has a higher GDP per capita, sorry! And not such a huge income gap!
And it cannot be the 19th richest, cause Frankfurt, a city with 650,000 inhabitants for example cannot have a total GDP the size of Sao PAulo which is x times larger. But per capita it is more than 90,000€! So which one is richer? In my opinion still Frankfurt - and even with a much smaller disparity. Same goes for some other smaller cities on your continent. I consider Brasilia or Santiago richer although their total GDP is smaller. But per capita they have a far higher income.
And the fact how big or not an economy is has nothing to do with being developed or not! In Sao Paulo 40% of the population do not even have decent housing from what ILO and Unhabitat say. more than 60% aren't even connected to the sewage system of the city and more than 30% have dirty tap water. If think that this is developed,....
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