daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Forums > Stadiums and Sport Arenas

Stadiums and Sport Arenas » Completed | Under Construction | Proposed | Demolished



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


View Poll Results: Which stadiums are better?
EURO2008 21 17.07%
EURO2012 102 82.93%
Voters: 123. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread

 
Thread Tools
Old June 8th, 2008, 12:59 AM   #21
michał_
Registered User
 
michał_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Krk | Stw
Posts: 1,633
Likes (Received): 71

Quote:
Originally Posted by marrio415 View Post
i like the planned stadia for 2012 and they are big for a euro championships but are they gonna be finacially sustainable in the long term.will the clubs be able to fiancially maintain them.It aint cheap.Also will the clubs occupying these stadia after be able to fill them week in week out.
It's not up to the clubs. The stadiums are built by authorities nad will only be leased by the clubs. But to make it profitable for both sides cities have already began cooperation with clubs. Wrcoalw has just gained a huge sponsor (Groclin) able to make Slask a successive club that will be able to fight in the European cups within 1-2 years. They've just advanced to the Ekstraklasa and would have already played in UEFA Cup this year, but supporters said they wouldn't want the club to work as a franchise and so they decided not to.

Plus, elite companies like PriceWaterHouse Coopers or Earnst & young are working on the sustainability of the stadiums, so I wouldn't be much afraid about that. In the end, for Poland it's only 4 new big stadiums for a 40million country that has got barely one (and not really modern). There's a lot of activities to make them work just fine. I hope
Don't know about Ukraine though.
michał_ no está en línea  

Sponsored Links
Old June 8th, 2008, 03:54 AM   #22
VelesHomais
Registered User
 
VelesHomais's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 18,962
Likes (Received): 5029

Don't know if everyone had seen this one of the Donbas Arena (Shakhtar, Donetsk)


And if you weren't following and think this is a far away vision ...


Quote:
Originally Posted by marrio415 View Post
i like the planned stadia for 2012 and they are big for a euro championships but are they gonna be finacially sustainable in the long term.will the clubs be able to fiancially maintain them.It aint cheap.Also will the clubs occupying these stadia after be able to fill them week in week out.
Ukrainian league is growing, popularity of football rises and the clubs that are involved partially (with government help) or fully, will definitely be able to maintain them, they're quite rich.

In fact, EURO 2012 or not, Arsenal Kyiv (rather small clubs in ukrainian league) has announced building a 60,000 seater with a retractable roof.
__________________
Операція И - 19.3.15
VelesHomais no está en línea  
Old June 8th, 2008, 04:20 AM   #23
Carrerra
Registered User
 
Carrerra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pohang
Posts: 1,452
Likes (Received): 22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burislav View Post
In fact, EURO 2012 or not, Arsenal Kyiv (rather small clubs in ukrainian league) has announced building a 60,000 seater with a retractable roof.
Olympic stadium will get a major renovation for the Euro 2012 but Arsenal Kyiv will build a 60K seater with a retractable roof with or without it? Does that mean that the club won't use Olympic stadium any more? I haven't heard of it. If you have any news or renders about the 60K stadia, why don't you them share with us?
Carrerra no está en línea  
Old June 8th, 2008, 06:16 AM   #24
VelesHomais
Registered User
 
VelesHomais's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 18,962
Likes (Received): 5029

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carrerra View Post
Olympic stadium will get a major renovation for the Euro 2012 but Arsenal Kyiv will build a 60K seater with a retractable roof with or without it? Does that mean that the club won't use Olympic stadium any more? I haven't heard of it. If you have any news or renders about the 60K stadia, why don't you them share with us?
Yes, Olympic will be entirely reconstructed. Dynamo will probably build a new stadium for themselves too. And Arsenal announced a huge arena for themselves as well (although I don't think that they need it).

Arsenal Kyiv stadium. capacity 60k-75k


I'm not sure whether or not it will be affiliated with Euro 2012 in any way or not. The club has recently got a new very rich owner
__________________
Операція И - 19.3.15
VelesHomais no está en línea  
Old June 8th, 2008, 10:37 AM   #25
Carrerra
Registered User
 
Carrerra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pohang
Posts: 1,452
Likes (Received): 22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burislav View Post
Yes, Olympic will be entirely reconstructed. Dynamo will probably build a new stadium for themselves too. And Arsenal announced a huge arena for themselves as well (although I don't think that they need it).

Arsenal Kyiv stadium. capacity 60k-75k


I'm not sure whether or not it will be affiliated with Euro 2012 in any way or not. The club has recently got a new very rich owner
If arsenal really intend to build their own stadium it must have no running tracks, mustn't it? Olympic stadium has running tracks so they don't need another stadium with running tracks. Burislav, would you link the article about 60K stadium and sum it up in English if you don't mind?
Carrerra no está en línea  
Old June 8th, 2008, 02:29 PM   #26
railcity
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,494
Likes (Received): 58

Of course, stadiums in Poland and Ukraine are more glorious.

I really hope EURO 2012 will be a big success and was very happy that Ukraine and Poland got it. I know the two countries quite well.

I don't think that infrastructure or security will be an issue for the majority of the fans.

For me the biggest Questions Mark is the development of the Leagues and if some stadiums are not too big for them. Of course, there are some big cities involved and for a special event like EURO, it will be not a problem to fill the stadia. But if the Leagues will be really booming that much remains to be seen.

Current average attendance in the 1st Division of the 2008 & 2012 host countries is:

Switzerland: 11'000
Austria: 9'000
Ukraine: 8'000
Poland: 7'000

And Austria is planning to reduce the capacity of at least 2 of its comparably small stadiums after the Euro again!

Austria & Switzerland have together 16 Mio inhabitants, Poland & Ukraine have 84 Mio. Considering this factor, the attendance in their leagues is very low. On the other hand, it also means, there is much potential - new stadia will attract new segments of spectators - the question is: how many?
railcity no está en línea  
Old June 8th, 2008, 03:23 PM   #27
michał_
Registered User
 
michał_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Krk | Stw
Posts: 1,633
Likes (Received): 71

Quote:
Originally Posted by railcity View Post
Of course, stadiums in Poland and Ukraine are more glorious.

I really hope EURO 2012 will be a big success and was very happy that Ukraine and Poland got it. I know the two countries quite well.

I don't think that infrastructure or security will be an issue for the majority of the fans.

For me the biggest Questions Mark is the development of the Leagues and if some stadiums are not too big for them. Of course, there are some big cities involved and for a special event like EURO, it will be not a problem to fill the stadia. But if the Leagues will be really booming that much remains to be seen.

Current average attendance in the 1st Division of the 2008 & 2012 host countries is:

Switzerland: 11'000
Austria: 9'000
Ukraine: 8'000
Poland: 7'000

And Austria is planning to reduce the capacity of at least 2 of its comparably small stadiums after the Euro again!

Austria & Switzerland have together 16 Mio inhabitants, Poland & Ukraine have 84 Mio. Considering this factor, the attendance in their leagues is very low. On the other hand, it also means, there is much potential - new stadia will attract new segments of spectators - the question is: how many?
I must say, very fair comment.
But when analyzing the attendances, pleace take a look at how it changes:

2002/3 2003/4 2004/5 2005/6 2006/7 2007/8

Austria 5 285 7 216 6 757 7 664 8 022 9 338

Poland 5 142 5 492 5 230 5 522 6 707 7 321

As you can see Polish football had a big stagnation since the nineties, but since 2 years it's changing rapidly. And note that the biggest stadium in Poland last season didn't even hold 20 000 (Lech's stadium did for some time and for Silesian derby national stadium was used). Ekstraklasa is now breaking records of attendances that were established some 15 years ago. We're on the rise and this year big clubs from Wroclaw and Gdansk (Euro cities after all) again join the league.

Interest for top games in Krakow was estimated at over 50 000, the rise between 2007 and 2008 is 50%. Poznan are an inspiration for the rest of the league, they've introduced "western" policies that made them the most popular club in terms off attendance within a year (in 2007 they had a 77% increase in attendance). As for Wroclaw and Gdansk, the clubs aren't supposed to fill the Euro stadiums from the start, but it seems authorities and clubs have some ideas how to make it work. I'm not sure about National Stadium and Silesian Stadium (maybe it will be taken over by Ruch football club?), but I'm sure they can make it up with non-football events.

And most importantly, now almost every Ekstrakalsa and 2nd league club is thinking of changing their stadium, not counting on hosting Euro:
- Legia Warszawa should (let's hope so) start construction of their 34,5k stadium this year
- Gornik Zabrze that has just gained Allianz as sponsor is planning "Allianz Gornik Arena" for over 30 000, works should start next year
- The city of Rzeszow plans 2 stadiums for its clubs, one at 20k and the other of similar size
- Bialystok will build a classy 25k
- Lublin is to start work on it's 17,8k this year
- Zaglebie Lubin is building a new one now (16,5k)
- Cracovia will have a new 15,5k
- Arka Gdynia another 15k
- Polonia Warszawa has just made their stadium the only fully covered (seats, not pitch) ground of the 2nd league this season and are thinking of expanding the stadium to up to 20 000.
and the list goes on. It is a boom (even if it ends at some 5-7 being built in the end), so I expect that after 2010 our attendances will get much higher.

As for Ukraine, I would be very calm about them...
michał_ no está en línea  
Old June 8th, 2008, 04:02 PM   #28
Basel_CH
Registered User
 
Basel_CH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,502
Likes (Received): 40

Quote:
Originally Posted by railcity View Post
Of course, stadiums in Poland and Ukraine are more glorious.
Poland and Ukraine have more citizens/people, thats the only point.
By the way, there are whispers that the UEFA delegation is not happy with the development for the EURO2012 (build up the stadiums, infrastructure, transport systems...), could it be, that Platini cancel this wonderful EURO2012 in Poland and Ukraine and would give it to other country(ies), because they are incapable to hold a so great and important event, like other smaller countries can manage it, like Austria and Switzerland?
Basel_CH no está en línea  
Old June 8th, 2008, 04:11 PM   #29
michał_
Registered User
 
michał_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Krk | Stw
Posts: 1,633
Likes (Received): 71

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basel_CH View Post
Poland and Ukraine have more citizens/people, thats the only point.
And what does this have to do? OK- size. But not aesthetics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basel_CH View Post
By the way, there are whispers that the UEFA delegation is not happy with the development for the EURO2012 (build up the stadiums, infrastructure, transport systems...), could it be, that Platini cancel this wonderful EURO2012 in Poland and Ukraine and would give it to other country(ies), because they are incapable to hold a so great and important event, like other smaller countries can manage it, like Austria and Switzerland?
Funny, cause I could swear no delegation is here And the one that was in March has publicly said there is no problem. In fact, everybody seem very pleased (surprisingly). Of course there are some issues (a lot) and we surely won't beat Euro 2008 in terms of infrastructure, but everything seems on course. Speaking of other smaller countries- compare budgets and ecnomic condition...
I know you lost yeaterday (though didn't deserve to), but no need for the irony.
michał_ no está en línea  
Old June 8th, 2008, 04:22 PM   #30
Basel_CH
Registered User
 
Basel_CH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,502
Likes (Received): 40

Polish level, no further comment...

Basel_CH no está en línea  
Old June 8th, 2008, 04:24 PM   #31
cichy87
No more half measures
 
cichy87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Polska
Posts: 3,178
Likes (Received): 1327

Attendance in polish league is low, because great part of polish 1st division clubs is placed in small town and they have small stadiums. All the EURO 2012 stadiums will be build in big cities and there should be no problem with filling it.

Eg, in Poznań, there is stadium with capacity up to 30,000 (now it's about 18.000 because of reconstruction). And there is always problem with buying league match ticket (in last season Lech Poznań sold above 10,000 season tickets). I'm sure, that after reconstruction there will be no free seat.

At the other stadiums it should be similarly. Our clubs are richer, they gain bigger sponsors, stadiums will be beautiful, comfortable and - first of all - very safe. It cause that more people will be eager to watch football matches
cichy87 no está en línea  
Old June 8th, 2008, 04:27 PM   #32
cichy87
No more half measures
 
cichy87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Polska
Posts: 3,178
Likes (Received): 1327

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basel_CH View Post
Polish level, no further comment...

Not Polish level, but some idiots from "polish" tabloids. It makes difference
cichy87 no está en línea  
Old June 8th, 2008, 04:29 PM   #33
AUTO
Registered User
 
AUTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Warsaw
Posts: 2,620
Likes (Received): 1478

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burislav View Post
Yes, Olympic will be entirely reconstructed. Dynamo will probably build a new stadium for themselves too. And Arsenal announced a huge arena for themselves as well (although I don't think that they need it).
Is Arsenal more popular than Dynamo?
In Warsaw there are also two clubs: Legia and Polonia.
Legia is more popular so they are going to build 35k stadium. Polonia new stadium will be for about 15k spectators. Are you sure that Kyiv's clubs are so popular to heve so big stadiums (especialy Arsenal)?
Dynamo could play in new olimpic stadium IMO.
AUTO no está en línea  
Old June 8th, 2008, 05:04 PM   #34
michał_
Registered User
 
michał_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Krk | Stw
Posts: 1,633
Likes (Received): 71

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basel_CH View Post
Polish level, no further comment...

Well, maybe your level. Most Poles found out about the yellow press covers after western media noticed them. And what is funniest here, one of the tabloids that led the ugly campaign is German (Polish version of Axel Springer's Bild).

Last edited by michał_; June 8th, 2008 at 05:10 PM.
michał_ no está en línea  
Old June 8th, 2008, 05:36 PM   #35
www.sercan.de
Galatasaray SK
 
www.sercan.de's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 27,950
Likes (Received): 2718

Come on
we saw the swiss yellow press before the SUI-TUR game 2 years ago
"Ümit Özat is the son of an anatolian wolf mum"
__________________
International titles of Galatasaray SK
UEFA Europa League (1): 2000
UEFA Super Cup (1): 2000

ULEB Eurocup (1): 2016

FIBA EuroLeague Women (1): 2014
FIBA EuroCup Women (1): 2009

IWBF Champions Cup (5): 2008, 2009, 2011, 2013, 2014
IWBF André Vergauwen Cup (1): 2017
IWBF Intercontinental Cup (4): 2008, 2009, 2011, 2012

EJU Golden League (1): 2014
www.sercan.de no está en línea  
Old June 8th, 2008, 05:36 PM   #36
VelesHomais
Registered User
 
VelesHomais's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 18,962
Likes (Received): 5029

Quote:
Originally Posted by AUTO View Post
Is Arsenal more popular than Dynamo?
In Warsaw there are also two clubs: Legia and Polonia.
Legia is more popular so they are going to build 35k stadium. Polonia new stadium will be for about 15k spectators. Are you sure that Kyiv's clubs are so popular to heve so big stadiums (especialy Arsenal)?
Dynamo could play in new olimpic stadium IMO.
No, Dynamo is much more popular, they're 2nd in Ukraine in 2007-08, while Arsenal usually was at the very end. Though it's gaining popularity. For important games we gather 50,000 spectators, but on average it's quite small considering the clubs at the end of the league with small attendances.

I said "I don't think that they need it" - which means that I don't think they're popular enough, especially Arsenal, to need such huge stadiums. But they probably know better than me.

Dynamo has a small stadium of their own (17k capacity) and for more or less important games use the Olympic stadium.

Arsenal is a new club, founded in 2001 and a year ago it got a new rich owner who advertises it strongly, building a new, big stadium is part of the team promotion for him.
__________________
Операція И - 19.3.15
VelesHomais no está en línea  
Old June 8th, 2008, 05:40 PM   #37
VelesHomais
Registered User
 
VelesHomais's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 18,962
Likes (Received): 5029

Average attendance for Ukraine:

1992 ~~~5,650
2004-05 7,302
2005-06 7,919
2006-07 9,052

It's rising and will continue to rise, Euro and new stadiums will give it an extra boost as well.
__________________
Операція И - 19.3.15
VelesHomais no está en línea  
Old June 8th, 2008, 06:03 PM   #38
VelesHomais
Registered User
 
VelesHomais's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 18,962
Likes (Received): 5029

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carrerra View Post
If arsenal really intend to build their own stadium it must have no running tracks, mustn't it? Olympic stadium has running tracks so they don't need another stadium with running tracks. Burislav, would you link the article about 60K stadium and sum it up in English if you don't mind?
The article is here http://www.ua-football.com/ukrainian/news/4847cb41.html

It says 10,000 parking spaces, total area of 320,000 sq/m, capacity 60k-75k, retractable roof, designed by a ukrainian team. But we heard his intentions about a big new stadium for a long time now

__________________
Операція И - 19.3.15
VelesHomais no está en línea  
Old June 8th, 2008, 06:40 PM   #39
Carrerra
Registered User
 
Carrerra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pohang
Posts: 1,452
Likes (Received): 22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burislav View Post
The article is here http://www.ua-football.com/ukrainian/news/4847cb41.html

It says 10,000 parking spaces, total area of 320,000 sq/m, capacity 60k-75k, retractable roof, designed by a ukrainian team. But we heard his intentions about a big new stadium for a long time now

Burislav, what is this? Is this a rendering of the new Arsenal stadium or a real life image of other exsting stadium?
Carrerra no está en línea  
Old June 8th, 2008, 06:52 PM   #40
www.sercan.de
Galatasaray SK
 
www.sercan.de's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 27,950
Likes (Received): 2718

thats allianz arena
__________________
International titles of Galatasaray SK
UEFA Europa League (1): 2000
UEFA Super Cup (1): 2000

ULEB Eurocup (1): 2016

FIBA EuroLeague Women (1): 2014
FIBA EuroCup Women (1): 2009

IWBF Champions Cup (5): 2008, 2009, 2011, 2013, 2014
IWBF André Vergauwen Cup (1): 2017
IWBF Intercontinental Cup (4): 2008, 2009, 2011, 2012

EJU Golden League (1): 2014
www.sercan.de no está en línea  


Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu