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Old August 7th, 2015, 12:48 AM   #341
yishbarr
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Originally Posted by Robi_damian View Post
Hip, modern junction... What are the new service patterns going to be. Only suburban trains will run the via Ashkelon route to Beersheva and express ones the regular via Lod?
Yes.

Anyways.

Bombardier won the tender for the 62 electric locos.
IR started putting rails on the TA-Jerusalem railway.
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Old August 10th, 2015, 10:29 AM   #342
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Bombardier won the tender for the 62 electric locos.
The article in RailwayGazette mentions these locos are going to be 6 MW, whereas a 'standard' TRAXX AC3 is 'just' 5.6 MW. Typo or are they really going to be more powerful?
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Old August 10th, 2015, 10:48 AM   #343
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The article in RailwayGazette mentions these locos are going to be 6 MW, whereas a 'standard' TRAXX AC3 is 'just' 5.6 MW. Typo or are they really going to be more powerful?
According to IR Announcement, these TRAXX AC locos will indeed powered with 6 Mega Watt system capable to push-pull up to 8 double-deck coaches or up to 12 single-deck coaches with max speed of 160 km/h.
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Old August 10th, 2015, 12:03 PM   #344
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According to IR Announcement, these TRAXX AC locos will indeed powered with 6 Mega Watt system capable to push-pull up to 8 double-deck coaches or up to 12 single-deck coaches with max speed of 160 km/h.
What's amazing is that these locos can reach 160 km/h in 2 minutes while pulling 8 carriages. I'm pretty sure that the trains to Jerusalem will be replaced by EMUs once we get them, while the locos are moved to other lines.
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Old August 10th, 2015, 02:03 PM   #345
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A quick and dirty calculation for a 526t train (1x58t driving trailer, 7x55t intermediate carriages, 1x83t locomotive) reveals that 6 MW takes you to 160 km/h in about 118 seconds, 5.6 MW takes about 126 seconds and 6.4 MW (BR101) will take roughly 112 seconds.

The most limiting is actually low speed traction, because up to about 75 km/h all the extra power is still useless, because you're still approaching the theoretical adhesion limits.
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Old August 10th, 2015, 04:27 PM   #346
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The most limiting is actually low speed traction, because up to about 75 km/h all the extra power is still useless, because you're still approaching the theoretical adhesion limits.
It would be interesting to factor in the weight of the locomotive in that
calculation... With a heavier loco, you can get (proportionally ?) better
tractive effort; but it also requires more force to pull the train. Which effect
wins ? Not considering the well know negative effects of heavy rolling stock
on the track, and all that kind of things, of course.
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Old August 11th, 2015, 08:46 AM   #347
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The weight is already factored in. I asumed 300 kN for a 83t locomotive. That's a mu of 0.37. Any higher and you will be really fighting for traction.

But just for fun I swapped the loco number for a ACS-64 (99t, 6.4 MW, 320 kN) and came up with 114 seconds. That's theoretically actually slower then a BR101, but in reality the ACS-64 will probably win the sprint under any not 100% perfect track condition. The BR101 has a feature to combat this, where the front axle intentionally has wheelspin to clean the rails. This makes a loud screaching sound. Works fine for passenger service, but for freight service nothing beats a heavier locomotive.
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Old August 17th, 2015, 06:48 PM   #348
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Valley line has 20 km of rails missing before it's complete. The train station is at Bet She'an. It looks like they copied it off Paatei Modiin, except the LED lights on the frames. This railway is really significant, since Bet She'an's closest intercity Bus station is in Afula, and now they can use the train instead.






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Old August 17th, 2015, 09:55 PM   #349
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Will it open next year? Also, what kind of services will operate on it? Suburban to Haifa or intercity to Tel Aviv?

Anyhow, spectacular progress by Rakevet Israel over the past decade.
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Old August 18th, 2015, 12:05 PM   #350
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Will it open next year? Also, what kind of services will operate on it? Suburban to Haifa or intercity to Tel Aviv?

Anyhow, spectacular progress by Rakevet Israel over the past decade.
Yes. Trains will travel between Bet Shean and Atlit. This is the last railway to be constructed without electrification priorities.
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Old August 18th, 2015, 03:03 PM   #351
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Meanwhile, piano was placed in TA-Hagana station lobby



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Old August 18th, 2015, 06:36 PM   #352
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Meanwhile, piano was placed in TA-Hagana station lobby
Sometimes I just don't understand what they're trying to do with putting musicians in the building. It's nice, but I think it's a rip off of other places, like the Tube in London, or whatever, which is not the same kind of train where people are coming in and out all the time.

Another note about trains in Israel is that the people here expect the trains to be stuck in the middle of urban areas, because they're comparing minor stations in Israel to major terminal stations overseas, so the media portrays it as "inexperienced planning of placement", even though, that's how all national railway systems work, and if they want an urban train (which Israel does need in some places), it doesn't do the job. The only places that have a station stuck in the middle of the town is Tel Aviv, because of the Ayalon line, Beer Sheva because it's the southern terminal and Modiin and eventually Jerusalem because they're eastern terminals. But people expect things like this everywhere, which will not work out.
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Old August 18th, 2015, 07:49 PM   #353
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Yes. Trains will travel between Bet Shean and Atlit. This is the last railway to be constructed without electrification priorities.
Atlit? Why not Binyamina like most other suburban services?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yishbarr View Post
Another note about trains in Israel is that the people here expect the trains to be stuck in the middle of urban areas, because they're comparing minor stations in Israel to major terminal stations overseas, so the media portrays it as "inexperienced planning of placement", even though, that's how all national railway systems work, and if they want an urban train (which Israel does need in some places), it doesn't do the job. The only places that have a station stuck in the middle of the town is Tel Aviv, because of the Ayalon line, Beer Sheva because it's the southern terminal and Modiin and eventually Jerusalem because they're eastern terminals. But people expect things like this everywhere, which will not work out.
But this is a major shortcoming. Priority should be given to making stations as central as possible. Where this cannot be done, they should be planned in areas where future development is earmarked, thus bringing the people close to the station if moving the station close to the people is not possible.
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Old August 18th, 2015, 10:20 PM   #354
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Atlit? Why not Binyamina like most other suburban services?



But this is a major shortcoming. Priority should be given to making stations as central as possible. Where this cannot be done, they should be planned in areas where future development is earmarked, thus bringing the people close to the station if moving the station close to the people is not possible.
I don't really know why they don't extend it to Binyamina.

Yes, that's what's being done actually. Stations are built actually in good locations, or in places with future development, but people expect it to be a 5 minute walk from where they live. It's stupidity. The only station with a really problematic location is Dimona which was built on a freight line in a far distance away from the actual city with 4 trains a day, but the current transportation ministry is going to build one in the place itself. Other stations are quite fine. The media is just extremely subjective here.

Last edited by yishbarr; August 18th, 2015 at 10:25 PM.
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Old August 19th, 2015, 02:30 PM   #355
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Other stations are quite fine.
As far as I could judge, the new station of Beit She'an is located quite
far away from the city centre too. The only thing reasonnably close to this
station is a very excentred shopping mall. Most people will have to drive or
take a bus to go to the station.

And I'm not even speaking of the station of Jerusalem, just in the middle of
nowhere. Even finding a taxi can be difficult when you arrive there !
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Old August 19th, 2015, 04:21 PM   #356
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As far as I could judge, the new station of Beit She'an is located quite
far away from the city centre too. The only thing reasonnably close to this
station is a very excentred shopping mall. Most people will have to drive or
take a bus to go to the station.

And I'm not even speaking of the station of Jerusalem, just in the middle of
nowhere. Even finding a taxi can be difficult when you arrive there !
The Bet Shean station is in a future development area. Don't ask me why. But for the record, Bet Shean is so small, it doesn't matter, and it's not worth it. I guess you're just looking at the photo, but Bet Shean isn't that big, and it's not such a distance. Usually, in built up places, it's a lot harder to stick a station in the middle without breaking up the entire infrastructure, so most new stations are placed in highway junctions. Rishon Letzion will eventually have a link between the west and eastern stations with 2 in the middle to get through to the future Rishon - Modiin Line.

Malcha station is on the old line, and they're probably not expecting too many users, unless you're in Malcha. And no, it's not too hard to find if you know the area, or even if you don't, it's quite noticeable enough, but it wasn't really meant to attract people. It will continue working, so Bet Shemesh people will still be able to go to Jerusalem without going through Gush Dan once Hauma station opens which is meant to attract people.

At the end of the day, you get many stations like that everywhere, not just in Israel. They're probably not as noticeable as they are located in the suburbs, but it's the same thing really.

Last edited by yishbarr; August 19th, 2015 at 05:19 PM.
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Old August 19th, 2015, 04:30 PM   #357
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Regarding Malkha Station, moreover, IR added extra trains to JRS this summer...

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Old August 20th, 2015, 05:49 AM   #358
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Another note about trains in Israel is that the people here expect the trains to be stuck in the middle of urban areas,
Well, for example the gush dan (the biggest metropolitan area in israel) needs a good subway sistem. the fundamental mission of IR should be connect cities, not the conections inside a urban area. ( Metro, BRT, and buses are for that )

Quote:
because they're comparing minor stations in Israel to major terminal stations overseas, so the media portrays it as "inexperienced planning of placement", even though, that's how all national railway systems work, and if they want an urban train
In my opinion IR is making a good job expanding the infraestructure to the north and south, the social returns of this proyect is gigant.


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(which Israel does need in some places),
The gush dan need a real subway sistem, Jerusalem more light rail, and haifa too, and maybe beer sheva. URGENTE !
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Old August 20th, 2015, 10:29 AM   #359
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The gush dan need a real subway sistem, Jerusalem more light rail, and haifa too, and maybe beer sheva. URGENTE !
Unfortunately, the Tel Aviv light rail is going to have level crossings, so it won't be classified even as a light metro. However, if the platforms and tunnels are big enough, and certain other factors (or a lot more), I don't think it will be too hard to convert it to a heavy metro.

About Jerusalem, they have 2 lines that would probably be done by the next decade. Jerusalem is too mountainous for a metro, so if citypass refuses to make trams more frequent, we're in a problem, since about 140,000 people use it daily.

About Haifa, they have a new BRT, and an old underground funicular. I haven't visited the place properly, so I don't know what to say. Same with BS.

Anyways, I'm not disappointed with the old cancelled Tel Aviv subway, since the technology for digging in coastal areas is probably going to do a better job.

I am disappointed that the gov only decided to start working on the railways recently, because the attitude of some people towards trains here isn't helping. The recent government is the only one taking this seriously.

Also, in general, not all mainland railways are interurban. You get extremely extensive urban railways using the national rail infrastructure, like Sydney Trains, but we obviously aren't getting there necessarily.
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Old August 23rd, 2015, 04:38 PM   #360
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...I never, ever take the train in Israel.
Heard the news? Well, X-rays prevent people with kalashnikovs from boarding a train in Israel.
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