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Old June 19th, 2008, 11:23 PM   #41
woutero
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Anyways back on topic here, it's scary how the Metro Leger Charleroi had all the stations nearly completed, and then canceling the entire project. Any plans in continuing what they left off?
I'm not the expert on this (any Walloons here with more expertise?). From the Wikipedia article I do get the sense that parts of the system are being expanded and some parts will get used. But some parts will remain unused.

The cause lies not only in a change of government, but more in a change of the futere of Charleroi. The plans were made in a time where heavy industries were booming. The plans were constructed and canceled in a time where the decline of these industries could no longer be ignored.

I recommend looking at this article. Especially the gallery (link at the bottom of te article) is VERY impressive. It's a gallery of the Chatelet Line. Lots of pics of deserted metro stations. Including rails, logos and escalators!

This is the network that was planned:


This is the current network:


This is a summary:

blue is in operation
green is constructed, but not in operation
purple is planned
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Old June 20th, 2008, 12:48 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
Thanks for the linking to the gallery link; albeit still uncomfortably, I'm now perfectly gob-smacked......except for, might that hell of a discard have come about due to political tensions between the (pardon my ignorance here) French- and Flemish-speaking Belgian folks?
No, it was not. These tensions only caused way too many tram vehicles being built for both the Flemish coastal tramway and the Charleroi ("French") pre-metro.
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Old June 20th, 2008, 01:38 AM   #43
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Nearly the same as in Charleroi happened in Antwerp, a city in the Flemish-speaking part of Belgium, but not só bad as Charleroi. In Antwerp, the only digged some tunnels, but no surface lines, like Charleroi (however we have a surface tram system with 12 lines en 5/12 lies are partially underground.
A picture of an not-used section (but it wil work over a few years)

A non-used station that wil NEVER be opened:

A station that wil go open in 2010 (wishful)

Some pics of working stations:


Our new trams:

The map:

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Old June 20th, 2008, 09:40 AM   #44
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well, there aren't subways in Zagreb... but we have a canceled route that drove to Mirogoj cemetery...

tram line drive uphill to cemetery, but was canceled after fatal accident in 1954 in which 19 people died...

here are some old photos...




and picture of accident... apparently brakes went down, tram accelerated to some say around 100km/h and went off track sliding downhill on side...


and some new photos of what is left today...








and place of crash...


the line was restored in 1964, and definitely canceled in 1967 when tracks were removed...

Last edited by DJZG; June 20th, 2008 at 09:48 AM.
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Old June 20th, 2008, 06:11 PM   #45
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Such a shame.
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Old June 21st, 2008, 09:24 AM   #46
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Should we really put tram lines in this thread as there are so many cities around the world that lost their trams it would flood this thread. I suggest a seperate one for trams and we concentraite on metro's or rail here.
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Old June 21st, 2008, 12:43 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by AshAshAsh View Post
Pretty much every big city in Britain had a tram network at one point, with all but one being closed (Blackpool).

Some cities have managed to get newer replacements in the last ten years or so.
Great Yarmouth, a once very large fishing port in East Anglia, England had a nice tram system until the fools pulled it all up. It also had three or four railway stations Vauxhall (which is still being used), Southtown (which I used to play on when it was closed), a line that went to the port and I believe there was one more close to the seafront. The town desperately needs a tram system but the people running the town hall and county council are just not pro public transport sadly.
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Old June 21st, 2008, 02:15 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X38 View Post
Nearly the same as in Charleroi happened in Antwerp, a city in the Flemish-speaking part of Belgium, but not só bad as Charleroi. In Antwerp, the only digged some tunnels, but no surface lines, like Charleroi (however we have a surface tram system with 12 lines en 5/12 lies are partially underground.
That is simply madness!! Do Belgians have too much money or what??!!
It is unbelievable how they can build all this nearly finnish, and just leave it unused. I'm silmply choked!
Especially when you think of the costs to dig tunnels, build stations etc. And the Charleroi situation is even more unbelievable, especially when you look at all the pictures. How can they place tracks and even install escalators for crying out loud, and don't have money to run it??!! The expensive part is to build it, and to install it. When you have it, how expensive can it be to run it. And to offer that much money to build it, and then just leave it... I simply can't believe it!!
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Old June 22nd, 2008, 02:35 PM   #49
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That is simply madness!! Do Belgians have too much money or what??!!
It is unbelievable how they can build all this nearly finnish, and just leave it unused. I'm silmply choked!
Especially when you think of the costs to dig tunnels, build stations etc. And the Charleroi situation is even more unbelievable, especially when you look at all the pictures. How can they place tracks and even install escalators for crying out loud, and don't have money to run it??!! The expensive part is to build it, and to install it. When you have it, how expensive can it be to run it. And to offer that much money to build it, and then just leave it... I simply can't believe it!!
So do I... Belgian politicians are stupid *******s and as intelligent as a mule. (a mule is even more intelligent)
But the eighties were a black period for Belgium overall.
But: during the building of these tunnels, it was a priority of the stat. In 1988, the responsibility of this huge project switched to the regional control, and they didn't find the premetro a priority anymore.
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Old June 22nd, 2008, 02:59 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Urbanus View Post
That is simply madness!! How can they place tracks and even install escalators for crying out loud, and don't have money to run it??!! The expensive part is to build it, and to install it. When you have it, how expensive can it be to run it. And to offer that much money to build it, and then just leave it... I simply can't believe it!!
When they started to build this semi-metro, prediction where that the city would grow to more than 500.000 inh.
And than the coalmines where closed and the steelindustry collapsed. Charleroi is now more or less a ghost town. It is much more expensive to run a metro than a bus line, even with the infrastructure being build.. So just when this branch was finished they decided not to use it. The other finished branches are also not very heavely used. The trams en stations are quite empty and it doesn't run after 8 pm.
The Wallonian goverment decided to close the ring line (on groundlevel) to reopen the tramline to Gosselies. (this line is today only used by tram underway to the depot) Also the Gilly line will be expanded. The allready finished but never used Chatelet line on the other hand will remain closed.

The Charleroi metro is without any doubt the most stupid infrastructure investment ever made in Belgium and probably in the world!

Charleroi is a little bit recovering at the moment, but it's still a long way to go...
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Old June 22nd, 2008, 07:56 PM   #51
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In Seville (Spain), a metro line was partly built between the 70's and the 80's. Suddenly, the government gave up the project because they thought it might damage the historical buildings of the old city...

Fortunately, in 2003, a new light-rail project was approved and will be inaugurated (if there aren't delays) next September. This new line will use almost all the tunnels and stations built 25 years ago, but not the ones situated on the historical part of the city. Instead, a tram line has been built to link the LRT line with the old-city. The LRT line uses low-floor trams, but is totally segregated to road traffic, it always runs on tunnels (in Seville and the densest areas of its neighbouring cities) or on viaducts (in the neighbourings cities of San Juan de Aznalfarache, Mairena del Aljarafe and Dos Hermanas).

There are also three more lines planned.

A map of the former network:


And information about the new project (Includes map):

http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/sev/sevilla.htm
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 09:39 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woutero View Post
I'm not the expert on this (any Walloons here with more expertise?). From the Wikipedia article I do get the sense that parts of the system are being expanded and some parts will get used. But some parts will remain unused.

The cause lies not only in a change of government, but more in a change of the futere of Charleroi. The plans were made in a time where heavy industries were booming. The plans were constructed and canceled in a time where the decline of these industries could no longer be ignored.

I recommend looking at this article. Especially the gallery (link at the bottom of te article) is VERY impressive. It's a gallery of the Chatelet Line. Lots of pics of deserted metro stations. Including rails, logos and escalators!

This is the network that was planned:


This is the current network:


This is a summary:

blue is in operation
green is constructed, but not in operation
purple is planned
Wow, that -- along with Antwerp's discard -- makes a lot of shunned metro lines
around Belgium. Look at all that green!
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 09:57 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woutero View Post
Part of Charleroi's (Belgium) subway network was abolished even before it was ever used. The city had ambitious plans for constructing a large subway network, but during construction it became clear that the costs of operation would be too high. Some lines were nearly finished (including tracks, overhead lines and stations) but were never used. These structures still exist today, overgrown and covered in graffiti.
Some more pics from trams-trolleybus.be:

















And some of my photo's of the operating network, taken last year.

































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Old June 23rd, 2008, 10:12 PM   #54
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Thanks for coming, Benonie.
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Old June 24th, 2008, 03:22 AM   #55
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hmm abolished subway networks i would say the NYC second system that they were going to put but it didn't got built fully?

i don't know why it wasn't completed though?
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Old June 24th, 2008, 11:11 PM   #56
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The city of Monotrilho de Poços de Caldas in Brazil had a 6km monorail line, with 11 stations, which opened in 1990. It had only a single track, with the intention of doubling it if increased capacity was required. However, demand was so low that it stopped operating during the week, with tourists on weekends being its only source of traffic. By 2004 the system had closed entirely, possibly due to structural failures of the track.
Now one train is abandoned in the central station, and parts of the track have collapsed.

See the monorail society page on the system at http://www.monorails.org/tMspages/Pocos.html
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Old June 25th, 2008, 12:06 AM   #57
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Such a sin.
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Old June 25th, 2008, 03:12 AM   #58
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I'm suprised no-one has posted anything about the Cincinnati subway. There are several miles of abandoned, nearly finished subway tunnels and stations under central Cincinnati.

http://www.cincinnati-transit.net/subway.html
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Old June 25th, 2008, 06:24 AM   #59
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Should we really put tram lines in this thread as there are so many cities around the world that lost their trams it would flood this thread.
At one point you could ride from Wisconsin nearly to New York City using only city trams, the only gap was in upstate New York. Now all of them are gone
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Old June 25th, 2008, 02:34 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by milwaukee-københavn View Post
I'm suprised no-one has posted anything about the Cincinnati subway. There are several miles of abandoned, nearly finished subway tunnels and stations under central Cincinnati.

http://www.cincinnati-transit.net/subway.html
That is really terryfic.
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