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Old September 23rd, 2009, 10:11 PM   #81
jmecklenborg1
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Thanks to the appearance of 1932 and 1956 maps at www.historicaerials.com, the surface route and surface stations of Cincinnati's subway can be viewed. The surface routing was rebuilt as expressways, so the remaining subway tunnel cannot be used as originally planned. It can, however, still be used for light rail and would have if the 2002 sales tax had passed.

The Cincinnati Subway was to be full heavy metro in a sixteen mile loop. Construction stopped after seven miles of construction, including a two mile, three station subway tunnel. This tunnel was to have been extended to three miles, and there were to have been a dozen more short tunnels, of which three were built but two have been filled in.

It was a "canal" subway, as were Rochester's and Newark's, although those were both designed for PCC streetcars. Cincinnati's was designed as heavy rail with an electrified third rail, and addition to city trains driving in endless sixteen mile circles, various interurbans would have leased trackage rights and carried passengers directly downtown via the city-owned subway.
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Old September 23rd, 2009, 11:30 PM   #82
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The Old Caracas' Tramway (or Trolley?...i don't know really )

Date: Around 1900















THE MAP:

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Old September 27th, 2009, 11:41 AM   #83
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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the Minneapolis and Saint Paul TCRT streetcars. It was an EXTENSIVE system that was replaced by buses because apparently streetcars are inferior to buses.

here is a map just to show you how huge of a system this really was


[IMG]http://pro.******************/IH138750.jpg?size=67&uid=5545EB7E-825C-4FA0-BD7C-67D9931E5198[/IMG]



all that's left of it is less than a mile of track that still runs as a historic trolley only during the weekend:


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Old September 28th, 2009, 09:53 AM   #84
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Sydney, Australia used to have one of the largest tram networks in the world, but during the later half of the 20th century they were all removed and replaced with buses. In 1997 a private operator re-built a single light-rail line in the city but since then there have been no other lines built.



Wikipedia article on Sydney's Trams:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trams_in_Sydney

most of Australia's other cities had trams, Melbourne was the only city to keep its network operating (now is the worlds largest network), and Adelaide all lines except 1 were replaced with buses. Every other tram system in the country was shut down and replaced with buses. At present most cities have made plans to rebuild them, but only Adelaide and Melbourne have made any progress.

Mor articles on other major tram networks in Australia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trams_in_Brisbane

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trams_in_Melbourne

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trams_in_Adelaide
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Old September 28th, 2009, 12:54 PM   #85
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I don't know how big it was, and I'd struggle to find pics (though I've seen them) but there was a British era tram in Karachi. It was at least 10 km. long.
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Old September 30th, 2009, 01:46 PM   #86
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KARACHI TRAM (1885-1975)

There was a time when citizens of Pakistan were accustomed to seeing Trams running all over the Karachi City center. It was one of the most popular means of conveyance in the city center. Today, only a handful of photos, a few landmarks and memories of Trams remain.

The history of Karachi tramway spans 90 years (1885-1975). It owes it origin to the Municipal Secretary and Engineer, James Strachan who first conceived the idea for a Karachi Tramway. In 1881, Mr. Edward Mathews of London submitted the tender for building this tramway network. It took until 1883 to complete all the formalities and to get Government’s permission to use Steam as the locomotive power for the trams. Actual construction work started in October 1884


The Inaugural Ceremony


On April 10, 1885 the first tram line in Karachi was opened for public traffic. The track extended from present day Jinnah (then Napier Mole) bridge to Kimari. An imposing ceremony was held on this occasion. The dignitaries who attended the ceremony included Commissioner Sindh, Henry Napier B Erskine, Commanding Officer of Sindh District, Brigadier General G. Luck and his daughter, Assistant Commissioner Dr. J. Pollen and His Highness Prince Shere Ali Khan, ex-Wali of Kandhar, Afghanistan, with his staff. All these people were transported to Kimari and then back to Scotch Church on a convoy of Steam Locomotives and using the tramway track which they were going to inaugurate. The marquees of the project had been erected at the Scotch Church. Refreshments were given to the attendees here and Commissioner Sindh in his speech pointed out that Karachi Tramway was the “first steam tramway in Western India.” He also pointed out that the tramway was going to be used for passenger as well as freight service.




The tramway was needed for freight service as Karachi Port was not deep enough in those days. Ships were anchored at present day Kimari area and from there freight was brought to Merewether Pier (Present day Jinnah Bridge/Native Jetty area) by small boats. For this purpose some tram rails were laid in the Godowns of Messrs. Ralli Bros. A. McHinh & Co., Volkart Bros., and others, and also along the jetty, so that grain might be transported directly from their warehouses to the boat’s side.




Tramway Map of 1893


The Map below shows Karachi of 1893. The Red rectangle towards left shows the first tramway track that was inaugurated. Also note how Karachi landscape has changed since then. Kimari is now part of the mainland as sea has receded a lot as well as land reclamation that has happened in the last 100 years. See where ‘bridge’ is written on a railway line towards bottom. This is where present day Boat-Basin is located.



Steam Locomotion got Replaced with Horses:



In 1886, steam powered trams got replaced by horse drived tramways. This was to the great satisfaction of city residents because the steam engines proved to be too noisy in the residential and commercial areas. The frequency of Steam trams was once every 15 minutes in busy areas and that made the residents quite uneasy because of the noise. After horse trams were introduced, Steam trams were relegated to shunting in depots only whereas light one-horse tram cars took their space on Karachi roads.



The photo is an earlier version of horse-driven Karachi tram which used two horses.
Horse trams were much cheaper to operate as compared to the steam locomotives fired with coke. The coke had to be shipped from England at a great expense, as Karachi could not afford any supplies, and in Bombay local demands required the whole output of the gas works. Present day Sindh including the city of Karachi were under Bombay Presidency until 1912.

To date, there are some remains of water troughs near Max Denso Hall area as well as in Saddar which were built to feed and provide water to the tram horses.

Last edited by sourierservice; September 30th, 2009 at 08:52 PM.
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Old September 30th, 2009, 01:55 PM   #87
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The East India Tramway Company

Very soon the horse driven tramways became bigger than ever. Some of carriages were converted to light railways and the tramway started moving not only passengers but also freight across the city by using petrol engines. The company was now titled as ‘The East India Tramways Company’. The chief engineer of the East India Tramway Company was John Brunton, whose name was long known in Karachi in connection with the Karachi-Kotri railway line which was constructed under his supervision.


The permanent way materials for the Karachi tram network was supplied by Messrs. Bolling and Lowe of London. The weight of the rails used in the tramway was 70 lb(32 kg) to the yard. The engines of the tramway were supplied by Messrs. Kitson and Co. of Leeds, the rolling-stock was supplied by the Starbuck Car and Wagon Company, of Birkenhead and the contractors who carried out the construction work were Messrs. Mathews and Crawford.




The photo below shows a section of the tram tracks laid on Bundar Road (now called Mohammad Ali Jinnah Road) near Max Denso Hall area. This photo is circa 1900.




Chronology of Karachi Tramway



1879: John Brunton devised a special grooved bridge rail of inverted U-shape for four foot gauge horse to be later used in the tramways in Karachi.



1881: Karachi’s Municipal Secretary and Engineer, Mr. James Strachan conceived the idea of Karachi Tramway around this year and Mr Edward Mathews, of London tendered for the construction of the line in 1881.



1883: Detailed plan for Karachi Tramway is made and settled. Permission is obtained from the Government for the use of steam powered trams in Karachi.


October 1884: Work starts on the construction of Karachi Tramway.


April 10, 1885: Steam Tramway was opened in Karachi.


1886: Steam tramway of Karachi got replaced by horse-drawn tramway.

1891-1900: During this period the Lawrence Road (now called Nishtar Road) route was opened. Also a short extension from Scots Kirk to Empress Market was opened. Exact dates are unknown


circa 1904: Light Steel-framed horse carts were introduced on the tramway.


March 23, 1905: Petrol Tram was inaugurated in Karachi.



1909: Horse drawn tramway of Karachi got shut down and was replaced by Petrol driven trams. Petrol trams had a capacity of 46 passengers each and could run up to speeds of 18 mph. Tracks were re laid for petrol driven trams.

The First two petrol-engined tramcars were built and tested in England and entered service in Karachi. These cars were the joint design of John Abbott and his son John Dixon Abbott, incorporating the Dixon-Abbott patent gearbox.

1911: Mainline Tracks were doubled.

September 30, 1911: Frere Street (now called Dr Daud Pota Road) Route was Opened.

February 1912: Horse traction was completely suspended by the petrol motor cars


1913: By the end of this year, the number of Petrol run trams in Karachi was 37

February 17, 1916: Soldier Bazaar Route was inaugurated via Mansfield Street (now called Syedna Burhanuddin Road).

1928: Kerbside loading introduced at the Boulton Market.

October 22, 1928: Chakiwara Route was opened.

1931: Temporary Extension was made Eastward from Soldier Bazaar, especially for the Indian Nationalist Congress meeting. The Rails were removed after the meeting ended.

1945: First New-Built Diesel cars were introduced. Diesel engines were introduced into some existing cars before 1939.

1949: Transfer of the whole system from the East India Tramways Company Limited to the Mohamedali Tramways Company (MTC). The tram company was bought by a Karachi resident Mr. Sheikh Mohammad Ali. MTC continued to operate the trams until its final closure in 1975.


1955: The number of Petrol Run Trams in Karachi had risen up to 64. These 64 cars were numbered from 94 to 157.

These were single deck 4-wheeled back-to-back cross bench cars.
These cars had 8 ft wheel base,
they were 28 feet long,
and 6 feet 8 inches wide.

These cars were built between 1924 and 1948. They were equipped with Perkins P.4 Diesel Engines and Simplex (Dixon-Abbott) Gearboxes.

Cars Number 145 to 157 were built as new Diesel Cars; The remained were converted from Petrol cars to Diesel Cars.




April 30, 1975: Karachi Tramway got closed down


References:

(1) Kurrachee, Past, Present, Volume II and Future by Alexander F. Baillie

(2) Karachi Travel Guide, 2000 by Yasmeen Lari

(3) PTV Drama: Mirza Ghalib Bandar Road Par

(4) Title Photo is from www.harrapa.com



Above material is taken from pakistaniat.com

Last edited by sourierservice; September 30th, 2009 at 08:47 PM.
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Old September 30th, 2009, 01:58 PM   #88
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The First Petrol Tram in the World - Karachi 1910. 46 seat —- type. 8 miles per gallon with petrol at 4 annas per gallon. Weight unloaded 3 tons. Designed by John Abbot, Chairman with J.P. Abbot Longfellow. Power unit —– valveless —– and Dixon Abbot patent Gearbox.

World First Petrol Tram

Last edited by sourierservice; September 30th, 2009 at 08:58 PM.
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Old September 30th, 2009, 02:12 PM   #89
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Old September 30th, 2009, 02:15 PM   #90
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1933

1950s
[
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Old September 30th, 2009, 09:58 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourierservice View Post
1933

1950s
[
Didn't change much
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Old September 30th, 2009, 10:06 PM   #92
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I posted same picture my mishtake
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Old October 4th, 2009, 09:41 PM   #93
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There's a virtual subway ride on the Liverpool Overhead Railway at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ocSv4y9uCU
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Old August 21st, 2011, 08:52 AM   #94
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wow. I didnt knw karachi had this.
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 12:30 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koolkid View Post
okay, so lurking around the forgotten-ny website, I managed to find this video of a ride on the third avenue el (demolished in the mid 50's).



If one didn't know any better, they'd think they're in Chicago!!
Here's the story on forgotten-ny...
http://www.forgotten-ny.com/SUBWAYS/...l/thirdav.html
I SO like this video
the lost New York
Wonderful!!!!
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 01:56 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samranali View Post
wow. I didnt knw karachi had this.
Hey good on ya for resurrecting this thread as I find the whole conversation quite interesting.
One line that has yet to be mentioned is the Jakarta Monorail. It was to be the beginnings of a rather large network but due to the Asia financial crisis of the late 90s it was put on hold and construction was halted. The large pylons are still there as the line was half finished.
At the time it was to be the largest urban transit monorail system outside of Japan. It really was one of the leading projects that resulted in what we now see as a large push for monorail as part of mass/rapid transit projects underway globally.
The successful Jakarta BRT system was developed and expanded instead but now with other large cities going forward and the city wanting to again start expanding rail system there has been a strong recent push to resurrect and finish the project.
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 01:59 AM   #97
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The 23 & 56 will come back between 2015-2023
The 50 & 60 might come back between 2023-2035
The 6 might come back between 2018-2023
The Waterfront LRT will come back between 2018-2025
There will also be a few suburban Trolley routes restored as part of the larger restoration to cope with the population growth....
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 08:44 AM   #98
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LA's entire streetcar system.

It's probably the biggest lost in entire history of transit. It's getting slowly rebuilt, but it's just not even close.

Compare this.(The streetcar system in 1920s)
http://www.erha.org/pe_system_map.jpg

To this: (The current rail system.)
http://www.metro.net/riding_metro/ma...s/rail_map.gif

I'm not sure if it was entirely bad thing though, because we did end up getting a full HRT subway.(Red and Purple Lines)
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 05:34 PM   #99
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Pittsburgh had more than 600 miles of streetcar (tram) track until the mid 1960's when almost all of it was abandoned and/or ripped up. Today there's a 25-mile remnant that's been upgraded to modern light-rail standards.

Image from Historical Maps of Pennsylvania:
1959 Pittsburgh Streetcar Map (3352 x 2172 px)

It's a shame it was dismantled so quickly and utterly, but de-industrialization and suburbanization hit Pittsburgh particularly hard. The segment that survived did so mainly because it had its own ROW. A new connector tunnel is currently being built to provide service to the stadiums on the north shore and there's talk of extending the same line west to the airport, and building a new line from downtown toward Oakland (east of downtown), where the University of Pittsburgh and CMU are.
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Old August 23rd, 2011, 01:31 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by State of the Union
LA's entire streetcar system.

It's probably the biggest lost in entire history of transit. It's getting slowly rebuilt, but it's just not even close.

Compare this.(The streetcar system in 1920s)
http://www.erha.org/pe_system_map.jpg

To this: (The current rail system.)
http://www.metro.net/riding_metro/ma...s/rail_map.gif

I'm not sure if it was entirely bad thing though, because we did end up getting a full HRT subway.(Red and Purple Lines)
LA street car fit LA when it was a city of population 600k. Alone it would never be able to cope with new the millions living there alone
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