daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Subways and Urban Transport

Subways and Urban Transport Metros, subways, light rail, trams, buses and other local transport systems



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old January 29th, 2012, 01:06 PM   #121
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,536
Likes (Received): 21249

This is good. It has another cool infrastructure nearby - the monorail.
[/quote]

But this is a piece of crap. Good riddance to have retired this thing from the streets of the otherwise great city of Sydney

__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old January 29th, 2012, 10:29 PM   #122
trainrover
:-x
 
trainrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,787
Likes (Received): 738

Quote:
Originally Posted by SydneyCity View Post
pro-road sentimentbrainwashing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
this is a piece of crap
Actually, its lone crappiness is its --as well as those of a multitude of others here-- altogether being dumped into the wrong thread, "...mass transit...":
MISC | Tram networks in the past
__________________
.
hee hee
.
trainrover no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2012, 11:18 AM   #123
Amix
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2
Likes (Received): 0

First, humanity building up trams in almost every city.. then they demolish it just to find out that it was bad and now uses hundreds of money to get it back all over the world.
Amix no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2012, 02:36 PM   #124
i_like_concrete
cockney sparrow
 
i_like_concrete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: London
Posts: 3,631
Likes (Received): 184

Not really a Mass Transit *Network*, but a maglev line that was once the future and was quickly abandoned and forgot about.

Quote:
M-Bahn



The M-Bahn or Magnetbahn was an elevated Maglev train line operating in Berlin, Germany in 1991. The line was 1.6 km in length, and featured three stations, two of which were newly constructed. The line was built to fill a gap in the public transport network created by the construction of the Berlin Wall, and was rendered redundant by the reunification of Berlin.

...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-Bahn
i_like_concrete no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2012, 10:40 PM   #125
trainrover
:-x
 
trainrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,787
Likes (Received): 738

Interesting! and to think it was semi-maglev, wherein its levitation was rated at 85%

__________________
.
hee hee
.
trainrover no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2012, 11:35 PM   #127
Falubaz
Registered User
 
Falubaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Zielona Gora, Polska
Posts: 14,799
Likes (Received): 2940

I dont believe they abolished the systemin Charleroi. It's impossible to have one and let it go... why is that?
__________________
Zielona Góra - Ziemia Lubuska

₪₪₪Zielona Góra moim okiem₪₪₪ Zielonogórskie autobusy₪₪₪Port Lotniczy ZIElona Góra₪₪₪ BRT₪₪₪ścieżki rowerowe w ZG
₪₪₪[Świat] „Przebłyski pamięci”₪₪₪Moja Ameryka - nie tylko Stany
Falubaz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2012, 11:51 PM   #128
trainrover
:-x
 
trainrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,787
Likes (Received): 738

Some suspicions, rationales follow -- zoom out of this now stretched-out post here so you needn't scroll from side to side repetitiously
Quote:
Originally Posted by woutero View Post
Part of Charleroi's (Belgium) subway network was abolished even before it was ever used. The city had ambitious plans for constructing a large subway network, but during construction it became clear that the costs of operation would be too high. Some lines were nearly finished (including tracks, overhead lines and stations) but were never used. These structures still exist today, overgrown and covered in graffiti.

Here's a wikipedia article (the ones in Dutch and French are better): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charleroi_Pre-metro

Quote:
Originally Posted by woutero View Post
I'm not the expert on this (any Walloons here with more expertise?). From the Wikipedia article I do get the sense that parts of the system are being expanded and some parts will get used. But some parts will remain unused.

The cause lies not only in a change of government, but more in a change of the futere of Charleroi. The plans were made in a time where heavy industries were booming. The plans were constructed and canceled in a time where the decline of these industries could no longer be ignored.

I recommend looking at this article. Especially the gallery (link at the bottom of te article) is VERY impressive. It's a gallery of the Chatelet Line. Lots of pics of deserted metro stations. Including rails, logos and escalators!

This is the network that was planned:


This is the current network:


This is a summary:

blue is in operation
green is constructed, but not in operation
purple is planned
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grunnen View Post
No, it was not. These tensions only caused way too many tram vehicles being built for both the Flemish coastal tramway and the Charleroi ("French") pre-metro.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hix View Post
When they started to build this semi-metro, prediction where that the city would grow to more than 500.000 inh.
And than the coalmines where closed and the steelindustry collapsed. Charleroi is now more or less a ghost town. It is much more expensive to run a metro than a bus line, even with the infrastructure being build.. So just when this branch was finished they decided not to use it. The other finished branches are also not very heavely used. The trams en stations are quite empty and it doesn't run after 8 pm.
The Wallonian goverment decided to close the ring line (on groundlevel) to reopen the tramline to Gosselies. (this line is today only used by tram underway to the depot) Also the Gilly line will be expanded. The allready finished but never used Chatelet line on the other hand will remain closed.

The Charleroi metro is without any doubt the most stupid infrastructure investment ever made in Belgium and probably in the world!

Charleroi is a little bit recovering at the moment, but it's still a long way to go...
__________________
.
hee hee
.
trainrover no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 31st, 2012, 01:13 AM   #129
Karnoit
Registered User
 
Karnoit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Charleroi & Brussels
Posts: 2,720
Likes (Received): 1564



The system is not exactly "abolished". It was just chosen to not complete the full network because the economic power of the city and of whole Wallonia had changed.

Several of the planned lines were never built and one line was partially built but never used (actually only 4 stations were built but never used). But the central line plus 2 other lines are built and used.
Today the central line has been transformed into a loop, one of the former line has been extended and a whole new line above the ground is gonna be finished. And it's more and more said that the "ghost line" to Châtelet could be the next big project coming soon.

Info and pictures about the latest works in this thread (in french and dutch): http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...348578&page=23
Karnoit no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 31st, 2012, 04:15 AM   #130
HARTride 2012
Registered User
 
HARTride 2012's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 13,855
Likes (Received): 1976

Quote:
Originally Posted by SydneyCity View Post
Sydney Tram Network (1861-1961). It was the second largest tram system in the world, however it fell victim of the anti-rail, pro-road sentiment during the 1950s.

Sydney re-instated light rail in 1997, with a very short (100m) section of shared street running, the rest being either through pedestrian areas or on an old freight alignment. It was extended in 2000, and another extention is currently under construction.

Sydney's old trams:

image hosted on flickr

Sydney tram, 1960 or '61 by Kevin Danks, on Flickr

Sydney's new light rail:

image hosted on flickr

Sydney Light Rail "Tram" by Squeakaz, on Flickr
image hosted on flickr

Sydney light rail by Roving I, on Flickr
That is exactly what happened with our streetcar system in Tampa, FL, USA. We used to have an extensive streetcar system from the late 1800s through the 1940s. Then the pro-car sentiment pretty much killed the system and all of the lines were replaced with bus routes.

In 2002, the streetcar was rebuilt, but only a small portion of what it once was. We got a short extension in 2011, but future extensions remain to be seen.

Map of the original system
http://www.flickr.com/photos/js_design/3493703777/

Map of the rebuilt system
http://www.tecolinestreetcar.org/abo...map_111311.pdf

Last edited by HARTride 2012; January 31st, 2012 at 05:02 PM.
HARTride 2012 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 31st, 2012, 11:18 AM   #131
Dahlis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 837
Likes (Received): 107

All of Stockholms inner city tram lines where shut down in 1967. Today trams are making a comeback though and new lines are planned and opened.

Some pictures from stockholmskällan:


Karl johans torg in 1915






Ringvägen under ground tram station in 1933. This station is served by the metro today and renamed Skanstull.


Trams at Telefonplan in 1964, the linme was replaced by metro. Trams of this type however is still used on the suburban Lidingö line.
Dahlis no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 31st, 2012, 06:18 PM   #132
trainrover
:-x
 
trainrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,787
Likes (Received): 738

Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
dumped into the wrong thread, "...mass transit...":
MISC | Tram networks in the past
__________________
.
hee hee
.
trainrover no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 1st, 2012, 09:10 PM   #133
Alargule
Res Uder et Siger
 
Alargule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 8,209
Likes (Received): 2092

Depends on your definition of 'mass'...
__________________
Nu op Wordpress: Rails in Amsterdam
Alargule no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 1st, 2012, 09:23 PM   #134
tampasteve
Registered User
 
tampasteve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Tampa
Posts: 2,395
Likes (Received): 258

I think Trainrover means that there is already a thread about old tram systems. The fact is that MANY cities used to have tram systems but no longer do - hence the separate thread. Any city in the USA with over 75,000 people in 1930 pretty much had a tram system at one time.

I think we should keep this thread about abolished metro and commuter rail systems.

Steve
__________________
There are only two days in the year that nothing can be done. One is called Yesterday and the other is called Tomorrow. Today is the right day.
tampasteve no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 1st, 2012, 09:58 PM   #135
trainrover
:-x
 
trainrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,787
Likes (Received): 738

For ages, I've been fed up with seeing mass transit being passed over for light rail by far too many planning authorities. It appears the authorities' brainwashing must be working, e.g., many forummers around here get muddled by the two modes of transport. Commuter rail isn't mass per se. Berlin's maglev's interesting because of its stand-alone, independent operation, even though its category was light.
__________________
.
hee hee
.
trainrover no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 1st, 2012, 10:50 PM   #136
tampasteve
Registered User
 
tampasteve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Tampa
Posts: 2,395
Likes (Received): 258

Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
For ages, I've been fed up with seeing mass transit being passed over for light rail by far too many planning authorities. It appears the authorities' brainwashing must be working, e.g., many forummers around here get muddled by the two modes of transport. Commuter rail isn't mass per se. Berlin's maglev's interesting because of its stand-alone, independent operation, even though its category was light.
I am not trying to get in an argument - and perhaps the comment was not aimed at me at all - but I most certainly am very versed in the notion of "mass transit" and know the difference between rapid mass transit and other modes of mass transit.

Now, if we are going to discuss the nuances and semantics of light rail, S-Bahn, urban rail, mass transit, street cars, trams, commuter rail.....the list goes on then I will sit that one out this time. That is a discussion that has been had ad nauseum on this and other forums.

Steve
__________________
There are only two days in the year that nothing can be done. One is called Yesterday and the other is called Tomorrow. Today is the right day.
tampasteve no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 1st, 2012, 11:07 PM   #137
trainrover
:-x
 
trainrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,787
Likes (Received): 738

I suspected you weren't quarrelsome, plus I concluded thanking you might seem being too fresh
__________________
.
hee hee
.
trainrover no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 2nd, 2012, 02:42 PM   #138
tampasteve
Registered User
 
tampasteve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Tampa
Posts: 2,395
Likes (Received): 258

Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
I suspected you weren't quarrelsome, plus I concluded thanking you might seem being too fresh


Best for pro-transit people to stick together.

Steve
__________________
There are only two days in the year that nothing can be done. One is called Yesterday and the other is called Tomorrow. Today is the right day.
tampasteve no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 2nd, 2012, 04:28 PM   #139
rheintram
yeah, whatever
 
rheintram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,601
Likes (Received): 924

The rest of the world doesn't care about what the US considers "heavy" and what "light". Your standards aren't the norm. We had this discussion here tons of times.
rheintram no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 2nd, 2012, 05:45 PM   #140
tampasteve
Registered User
 
tampasteve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Tampa
Posts: 2,395
Likes (Received): 258

Quote:
Originally Posted by rheintram View Post
The rest of the world doesn't care about what the US considers "heavy" and what "light". Your standards aren't the norm. We had this discussion here tons of times.
Clearly. The US defines transit in an odd way indeed. No need to get snippy though.

Steve
__________________
There are only two days in the year that nothing can be done. One is called Yesterday and the other is called Tomorrow. Today is the right day.
tampasteve no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
subway

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium