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Old April 27th, 2017, 07:57 PM   #2001
fantasyridge
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Originally Posted by In Fra Structure View Post
I spoke to the CEO and he says that they will not be making a decision for sometime. They have a lot more offers from Monorail Train Suppliers so they are keeping their options open. This CEO believes in JIT (Just In Time) delivery so they will place the orders depending on the quoted delivery time from the manufacturers. As for them being insane to spread the contract over two suppliers, this is exactly the same as for the existing BTS Green line (two suppliers) and the BEM Blue and Purple Lines (two suppliers). This gives them extra bargaining power but also solves the problem with the capabilities of the manufacturers to supply the number of units required in the delivery period.
Beyond BT and Hitachi, what other credible monorail provider is out there that can satisfy the ridership requirements of this project? They don't exist.

Also, I have serious doubts that this CEO (BTS?) understands lead times for rolling stock systems. Once they sign the contract next month, they have 3 years and 3 months to begin revenue service. The day they sign they are already a year behind.

Typically you need at the very least six months to test your trains (incredibly tight schedule) leaving less than 3 years to finalize design and manufacture the rolling stock that will need to be customized to project specifics. Frankly, I doubt BT or Hitachi can hit these deadlines, even utilizing their Chinese JVs.

You have bargaining power when you choose two high-floor rolling stock. You do not have the same flexibility when choosing monorails. The stations need to be built to the specifications of the trains, like door positioning for the critical platform screen door system. If you want two suppliers, their systems need to be interchangeable. Good luck with that.

Finally, the rolling stock and rail systems contract are tied together and expected to be the same vendor (regardless of the line). BRS cannot delay award. There is an exorbitant amount of work required to design, build, install, interface, commission, integration testing, etc. 3 years is a brutally short time span for a project of this caliber.

Sorry, I am finding it really hard to believe what your CEO friend is telling you.
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Old April 28th, 2017, 04:44 AM   #2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fantasyridge View Post
Beyond BT and Hitachi, what other credible monorail provider is out there that can satisfy the ridership requirements of this project? They don't exist.

Also, I have serious doubts that this CEO (BTS?) understands lead times for rolling stock systems. Once they sign the contract next month, they have 3 years and 3 months to begin revenue service. The day they sign they are already a year behind.

Typically you need at the very least six months to test your trains (incredibly tight schedule) leaving less than 3 years to finalize design and manufacture the rolling stock that will need to be customized to project specifics. Frankly, I doubt BT or Hitachi can hit these deadlines, even utilizing their Chinese JVs.

You have bargaining power when you choose two high-floor rolling stock. You do not have the same flexibility when choosing monorails. The stations need to be built to the specifications of the trains, like door positioning for the critical platform screen door system. If you want two suppliers, their systems need to be interchangeable. Good luck with that.

Finally, the rolling stock and rail systems contract are tied together and expected to be the same vendor (regardless of the line). BRS cannot delay award. There is an exorbitant amount of work required to design, build, install, interface, commission, integration testing, etc. 3 years is a brutally short time span for a project of this caliber.

Sorry, I am finding it really hard to believe what your CEO friend is telling you.

CEO is not BTS. His company will do the design and construction. I spoke to him last night. The contract between MRTA and BSR has not yet been signed so they cannot place an order for trains. They have quotations from a number of manufacturers. According to Monorails.org on 23/12/16 the contract was already awarded to Bombardier for 308 Innovia 300s, which is news to another of my friends who represents Bombardier Thailand. This is his offer along with the competitors. BSR will decide the supplier after the contract is signed. My feeling is that it is between Hitachi and Bombardier. However they also visited SCOMI, which CRRC is trying to by 100%. SCOMI could meet the specs with their latest design. And now there is BYD (backed by Warren Buffett) which to all intents and purposes is a copy of Bombardier's monorail system with similar capacities. and probably designed to run on the same track. Most of the essential parts are the same as used to manufacture the Bombardier units. They will decide which Monorail train manufacturer they will purchase probably in June if the contract is signed in May. But who knows when it will be signed, there always seems to be slippage when dealing with the MRTA (such as Blue Line missing link). I hope that it will be Bombardier but they seemed to prefer Hitachi. Let's see.
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Old April 28th, 2017, 06:33 AM   #2003
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In response by popular demands of those Farang and other foreign tourists who stay at Khao San road, BMTA has to offer another aircon bus service from Donmueang International Airport to Khao San road - effective 1 May 2017
http://manager.co.th/HotShare/ViewNe...=9600000042880


NEW SERVICE : Donmuang Airport Bus (EXPRESSWAY)
A3 : Donmuang Airport - Pratunam - Lumphini Park
A4 : Donmuang Airport - Khaosan - Sanamluang
Bus Type - BMTA EURO II Air-Conditioned Bus
Fare - 30 Baht / Trip / Person
Starting - Monday 1 May 2017
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater
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Old April 28th, 2017, 07:25 AM   #2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by In Fra Structure View Post
CEO is not BTS. His company will do the design and construction. I spoke to him last night. The contract between MRTA and BSR has not yet been signed so they cannot place an order for trains. They have quotations from a number of manufacturers. According to Monorails.org on 23/12/16 the contract was already awarded to Bombardier for 308 Innovia 300s, which is news to another of my friends who represents Bombardier Thailand. This is his offer along with the competitors. BSR will decide the supplier after the contract is signed. My feeling is that it is between Hitachi and Bombardier. However they also visited SCOMI, which CRRC is trying to by 100%. SCOMI could meet the specs with their latest design. And now there is BYD (backed by Warren Buffett) which to all intents and purposes is a copy of Bombardier's monorail system with similar capacities. and probably designed to run on the same track. Most of the essential parts are the same as used to manufacture the Bombardier units. They will decide which Monorail train manufacturer they will purchase probably in June if the contract is signed in May. But who knows when it will be signed, there always seems to be slippage when dealing with the MRTA (such as Blue Line missing link). I hope that it will be Bombardier but they seemed to prefer Hitachi. Let's see.


About that monorails.org article, I contacted the owner of the site who said it was based on hearsay, hence the question mark in the title.

Unfortunately he past away a few months ago.
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Old April 28th, 2017, 07:32 AM   #2005
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Hm are you sure CRRC and Hitachi are still working together? Last I heard they are in litigation. CRRC tried to market monorails based on Hitachi designs outside of China which they are not supposed to.

I also heard Scomi/Siemens (signalling) are still in contention.
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Old April 28th, 2017, 07:45 AM   #2006
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Hm are you sure CRRC and Hitachi are still working together? Last I heard they are in litigation. CRRC tried to market monorails based on Hitachi designs outside of China which they are not supposed to.

I also heard Scomi/Siemens (signalling) are still in contention.


Rumours on top of rumours.

Guess we won't know until we finally know.

Surprised Scomi would still be in it. Don't know that they make a train the meets requirements.
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Old April 28th, 2017, 08:30 AM   #2007
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Originally Posted by fantasyridge View Post
Rumours on top of rumours.

Guess we won't know until we finally know.

Surprised Scomi would still be in it. Don't know that they make a train the meets requirements.
SCOMI Monorail used in KL failed to meet the requirement for Yellow line monorail and Pink line monorail - four car formation with capacity to carry passengers as 3 car formation of BTS SKytrain
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Old April 28th, 2017, 09:57 AM   #2008
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SCOMI Monorail used in KL failed to meet the requirement for Yellow line monorail and Pink line monorail - four car formation with capacity to carry passengers as 3 car formation of BTS SKytrain

Then it may be only Bombardier for both lines.
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Old April 28th, 2017, 10:39 AM   #2009
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From Bangkok Post

http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/o...needs-a-future

The BRT has been saved. Now it needs a future
27 Apr 2017, 04:22



The Bus Rapid Transit or BRT, which links the Sathon-Ratchaphruek areas, is a cheaper alternative to the BTS Skytrain and the MRT Subway. It is one of the five routes that materialised and began operations in 2010. The brainchild of former city governor Bangkok Apirak Kosayodhin, the BRT has drawn some criticism for appropriating a traffic lane, but it has been well-received as an alternative transport option, especially during rush hours.

In February this year, the BRT was slated for closure by the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) which complained of an annual deficit of 200 million baht. It said daily passengers numbered only 15,000-25,000 users -- a shortfall from the 35,000 commuters it had projected. However, the BMA made a U-turn in the following month as suggested by the government

...
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Old April 28th, 2017, 11:47 AM   #2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fantasyridge View Post
Rumours on top of rumours.

Guess we won't know until we finally know.

Surprised Scomi would still be in it. Don't know that they make a train the meets requirements.
According to my inside sources today, the final decision has now been made. The contract award will be made on May 18th 2017 between MRTA and BSR. BSR have asked Bombardier to be present at the contract signing ceremony and therefore it is pretty sure that Bombardier will get a contract for the Monorails trains for the Pink, Yellow and Gold lines. Apparently the CEO of BTS Group is happy that they will be dealing with their existing supplier, Siemens, for the Monorail, since they are shortly likely to take over Bombardier Railway Division. I am also told that it is likely that they will ask the Chinese to design and build the monorail systems, since they have already erected a number of similar turnkey Monorail Systems.
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Old April 28th, 2017, 11:59 AM   #2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dimlys1994 View Post
From Bangkok Post

http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/o...needs-a-future

The BRT has been saved. Now it needs a future
27 Apr 2017, 04:22



The Bus Rapid Transit or BRT, which links the Sathon-Ratchaphruek areas, is a cheaper alternative to the BTS Skytrain and the MRT Subway. It is one of the five routes that materialised and began operations in 2010. The brainchild of former city governor Bangkok Apirak Kosayodhin, the BRT has drawn some criticism for appropriating a traffic lane, but it has been well-received as an alternative transport option, especially during rush hours.

In February this year, the BRT was slated for closure by the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) which complained of an annual deficit of 200 million baht. It said daily passengers numbered only 15,000-25,000 users -- a shortfall from the 35,000 commuters it had projected. However, the BMA made a U-turn in the following month as suggested by the government

...
Well, they considered BRT on the section from Kae Rai to Lam Salee to feed Purple line MRT along with Pink Monorail and Yellow Monorail - Sure they can do on the section from Kae Rai Intersection to the Mall Ngam Wongwan along with the section along Prasoed Manookit road [AKA Kaset - Nawamin road] along with Nawamin road ... However, the greatest bone of contention is the section from Kasetsart Intersection all the way to the Mall Ngam Wongwan due to high traffic intensity that demand at least Monorail.

For the BRT along Chong Nonsee canal and Rama 3 road, better convert to Monorail and extend to Surawongse road would be a godsend solution though.
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Old April 28th, 2017, 10:57 PM   #2012
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BEM has issued the schedule for Blue ring opening date after CK (owner of BEM) is about to sign 20 billion Baht contract to handle the Blue ring services:'

August 2017: Bangsue - Tao Poon to allow connection with Purple line MRT
September 2019: Hua Lamphong - Lak Song via Ratanakosin island
March 2020 - Tao Poon - Tha Phra section

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater
http://www.prachachat.net/news_detai...sid=1493350649

the graceful Sanamchai Subway station
http://www.thairath.co.th/content/913090
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Last edited by Wisarut; May 1st, 2017 at 05:00 PM. Reason: Addendum
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Old May 1st, 2017, 06:55 AM   #2013
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update MRT Blue Line Extension Lak Song- Tha Phra

update bangsue grand statioh
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Old May 1st, 2017, 10:52 PM   #2014
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I am also told that it is likely that they will ask the Chinese to design and build the monorail systems, since they have already erected a number of similar turnkey Monorail Systems.
You mean the physical infrastructure or the rail systems? It can't be the latter as many of the rail systems (e.g. signalling) are part of the Innovia package as it's a fully automated system. Can't have them supplied by someone other than BT.

Also, May 18th sounds oddly specific, especially considering the cabinet missed the April approval window.
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Old May 2nd, 2017, 03:44 AM   #2015
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You mean the physical infrastructure or the rail systems? It can't be the latter as many of the rail systems (e.g. signalling) are part of the Innovia package as it's a fully automated system. Can't have them supplied by someone other than BT.

Also, May 18th sounds oddly specific, especially considering the cabinet missed the April approval window.

Why is it oddly specific? In early April the Transport Minister announced that the contracts were ready to sign (reported April 6th Bangkok post). The contract signing was delayed because of Songkran. My reliable inside information (from BT) is that the contract signing will take place on May 18th. CRRC Nanjing Puzhen Co. Ltd is Bombardier's JV Monorail partner. Within the CRRC group they have considerable experience of construction of monorail systems. A Monorail System includes the whole package. STEC will do the civil works and basic services with design and possibly supervisory input from CRRC Puzhen/Bombardier. All the Automation will be by Bombardier which is the existing BTS Control Systems supplier. Siemens is likely to takeover Bombardier in the near future and merge their Railway Divisions.
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Old May 2nd, 2017, 11:11 AM   #2016
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Originally Posted by fantasyridge View Post
You mean the physical infrastructure or the rail systems? It can't be the latter as many of the rail systems (e.g. signalling) are part of the Innovia package as it's a fully automated system. Can't have them supplied by someone other than BT.

Also, May 18th sounds oddly specific, especially considering the cabinet missed the April approval window.
I do not see why the signalling system can't be supplied by others. Normally the vehicle management system can be configured. In my previous project the Bombardier Innovia Metro 300 (LRT) was using Thales signalling system.

For Monorails the most crucial part of the whole structure is the guideway beams. For LRT/MRT normally you have a guideway and you lay your tracks on it. For a monorail the guideway beams are your tracks. Anything out of tolerances has a direct impact to the ride quality. So whoever doing the civil constructions needs to be very experienced.
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Old May 2nd, 2017, 08:49 PM   #2017
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Siam Square Skywalk

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"Siam Square Skywalk" the newest Bangkok's most iconic landmark on Pathumwan Intersection connecting BTS Skytrain National Stadium station to Bangkok Art & Cultural Center, MBK Center, Siam Square and Siam Discovery, scheduled to complete by end of this year.













Photos by https://www.mangozero.com/update-skywalk-pathumwan/
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Old May 2nd, 2017, 09:06 PM   #2018
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BLocker & Lock Box

BLocker & Lock Box at mass transit stations.


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Old May 3rd, 2017, 12:39 PM   #2019
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They were postponed from last month because PM Prayut is on a mission abroad and could not be present to consider the approval at the meeting........
Instead the Pink and Yellow lines will be given to the Cabinet for approval next week (as a formality).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Three rail projects worth Bt300bn to go before Cabinet this month: Arkhom
May 02, 2017 19:49 By The Nation

The Transport Ministry will table three rail-track projects worth Bt300 billion combined before the Cabinet later this month, Transport Minister Arkhom Termpittayapaisith said on Tuesday.

They include the Purple Line southern route, featuring the Tao Poon-Ratburana section worth Bt131 billion, and the Orange Line western route, featuring the Taling Chan-Thailand Cultural Centre section worth Bt109 billion.

These two projects belong to the Mass Rapid Transit Authority of Thailand (MRTA).

The third is the State Railway of Thailand’s Bt60-billion double-track project from Den Chai to Chiang Mai.

Arkhom said he would also present for Cabinet approval next week the bid results of the Lat Phrao-Samrong section of the Yellow Line monorail project, and the Khae Rai-Min Buri section of the Pink Line monorail project.

BSR Joint Venture – comprising BTSG, Sino-Thai Engineering and Construction and Ratchaburi Electricity Generating Holding – recently won the bidding for these two lines.

The project was initiated under a public-private-partnership scheme by the MRTA.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news...urism/30314057
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Old May 3rd, 2017, 02:22 PM   #2020
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Thank you for the update.
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