Buffalo Development News

[AndrewJM3D]

Originally Posted by steel

No, That last thing Buffalo needs is a tower. What it needs is density and infill. That is what will create the lively streets that people like.

I disagree. I'm sure developers look at the downtown as a waste of time and resources. If a new office tower came online it would create excitement in the real-estate world and spark new interest in the downtown core. Buffalo never rebounded from the doughnut effect. If people saw a new beacon of prosperity then it could influence other developers to think about acquiring to cash in on a potentially fruitful urban market that has yet to happen. It's only a matter of time until people see the value of an urban lifestyle over a suburban one. Hopefully developments like the waterfront will help spark a new urban interest in your city.

I know way too much, or too little about Buffalo. I love you guys though and want to see the best for our closest American neighbor.

[steel]

Originally Posted by AndrewJM3D

I disagree. I'm sure developers look at the downtown as a waste of time and resources. If a new office tower came online it would create excitement in the real-estate world and spark new interest in the downtown core. Buffalo never rebounded from the doughnut effect. If people saw a new beacon of prosperity then it could influence other developers to think about acquiring to cash in on a potentially fruitful urban market that has yet to happen. It's only a matter of time until people see the value of an urban lifestyle over a suburban one. Hopefully developments like the waterfront will help spark a new urban interest in your city.

I know way too much, or too little about Buffalo. I love you guys though and want to see the best for our closest American neighbor.

A "beacon of Prosperity" in the form of an isolated tower would not influence developers to invest. On the contrary dense active streets would. A new tower here and there will do nothing to make active streets. The current development happening in Buffalo is exactly the kind that is needed. Step by step filling in the valuable historic buildings and reactivating the city. This will eventually lead to infill on the too common parking lots. A new tower will only result in a new parking lot near by to support it.

[fubo]

Originally Posted by AndrewJM3D

I disagree. .

How dare you disagree with THE expert from Chicago


Meanwhile in development news:

Developers line up for Millard Gates $1M award

With 16 possible contenders for a $1 million prize, Kaleida Health has extended the deadline until May 4 for final submissions of proposals on re-using the Millard Fillmore Gates Circle property.

The hospital will shut down March 28, one day after Kaleida completes the transition of all services shifted to Gates Vascular Institute and the adjacent Buffalo General Medical Center on the downtown Buffalo Niagara Medical Campus two miles away.

http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/news/

[AndrewJM3D]

Originally Posted by steel

A "beacon of Prosperity" in the form of an isolated tower would not influence developers to invest. On the contrary dense active streets would. A new tower here and there will do nothing to make active streets. The current development happening in Buffalo is exactly the kind that is needed. Step by step filling in the valuable historic buildings and reactivating the city. This will eventually lead to infill on the too common parking lots. A new tower will only result in a new parking lot near by to support it.

How would a new tower downtown be isolated? Infill is great I never said it wasn't but a new major structure could be what's needed to create a buzz in the market place. Infill is a great use of vacant properties but it ads nothing to the skyline and it can be tough to change peoples perceptions of a city when they see zero visible change. Also I'm not sure how they develop in Chicago, but in Toronto when a new tower goes up that never results in a new parking lot nearby to support it. That's what underground lots are for, a mandatory part of most new builds provide public parking in areas that need it. I'm sure a new building in Buffalo would result in the death of a parking lot.

[fubo]

Originally Posted by AndrewJM3D

How would a new tower downtown be isolated? Infill is great I never said it wasn't but a new major structure could be what's needed to create a buzz in the market place. Infill is a great use of vacant properties but it ads nothing to the skyline and it can be tough to change peoples perceptions of a city when they see zero visible change. Also I'm not sure how they develop in Chicago, but in Toronto when a new tower goes up that never results in a new parking lot nearby to support it. That's what underground lots are for, a mandatory part of most new builds provide public parking in areas that need it. I'm sure a new building in Buffalo would result in the death of a parking lot.

It's too bad the Adelphia Tower never got built on the Webster Block, it was going to be built to the curb and would definintly have added more to the street life than the surface parking lot that is there to this day.

Here is picture of it from an earlier thread: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...646809&page=83

[steel]

Originally Posted by AndrewJM3D

How would a new tower downtown be isolated? Infill is great I never said it wasn't but a new major structure could be what's needed to create a buzz in the market place. Infill is a great use of vacant properties but it ads nothing to the skyline and it can be tough to change peoples perceptions of a city when they see zero visible change. Also I'm not sure how they develop in Chicago, but in Toronto when a new tower goes up that never results in a new parking lot nearby to support it. That's what underground lots are for, a mandatory part of most new builds provide public parking in areas that need it. I'm sure a new building in Buffalo would result in the death of a parking lot.

Comparing development in Buffalo to Toronto and Chicago is silly. Those cities get 5 times the rent. But that said there are hundreds of towers in Chicago plopped on top of 10 story dull parking deck blobs. Every tower comes with parking - don't fool yourself. A city with dense lively streets is many times more appealing than one with towers and empty streets.

[desertpunk]

Originally Posted by steel

Comparing development in Buffalo to Toronto and Chicago is silly. Those cities get 5 times the rent. But that said there are hundreds of towers in Chicago plopped on top of 10 story dull parking deck blobs. Every tower comes with parking - don't fool yourself. A city with dense lively streets is many times more appealing than one with towers and empty streets.

Too much of anything has its headaches. But how many office towers could ever realistically be built in Buffalo? A couple does nothing to destroy the city's quality of life. As for "dense, lively streets", unless Buffalo becomes a tourist mecca like Savannah, those people milling around all Jane Jacobs style will need jobs and incomes. Businesses that locate to the CBD in office buildings can provide just that. Otherwise, you're hoping for reverse commuters that have to drive out to the suburbs where employers are. Which is it?

[steel]

Originally Posted by desertpunk

Too much of anything has its headaches. But how many office towers could ever realistically be built in Buffalo? A couple does nothing to destroy the city's quality of life. As for "dense, lively streets", unless Buffalo becomes a tourist mecca like Savannah, those people milling around all Jane Jacobs style will need jobs and incomes. Businesses that locate to the CBD in office buildings can provide just that. Otherwise, you're hoping for reverse commuters that have to drive out to the suburbs where employers are. Which is it?

So you are saying people can only work in office towers? That makes no sense to me. Give me 4 10 story buildings over 1 40 story building any day.

[homestar]

Originally Posted by steel

Give me 4 10 story buildings over 1 40 story building any day.

Bingo. And if instead of 4 10-story buildings we could have 13 3-story buildings then we could actually repopulate entire struggling sections of main st with people and street life.

New office towers will always be sexier though. But I think dressing up the old HSBC tower could go a long way to breathing some new life into the skyline without dumping all the new office space on one single site.

[Numminen27]

Have they started de-skinning the Donovan yet? Last time I saw it, it didn't look like that much was being done.

[desertpunk]

Originally Posted by steel

So you are saying people can only work in office towers? That makes no sense to me. Give me 4 10 story buildings over 1 40 story building any day.

Office towers are more efficient. Do you really want a suburban corporate campus of 10 story buildings downtown? Because unless you know of a firm that willingly takes hundreds of thousands of square feet in scattered locations off a single lease, I don't think such a configuration could compete with suburbs or with a single tall building. And certainly smaller firms can and should build more human-scaled offices. But if Buffalo had the kind of financial services firms as Charlotte, they would either end up in a huge suburban office campus or in a large office tower. And don't tell me that's a far-fetched scenario. Buffalo's banks remind me very much of where Charlotte's were 20 years ago.

The other advantage to taller office buildings is that they allow a concentration of employers without creating a downtown ghost town after 6 pm. Instead of shorter office buildings with blank or reflective glass streetwalls, developers can instead build more people-friendly structures with residential and retail between a few tall towers. I live in a city with nothing but crappy 10-15 story office towers. Except for our own version of Chippewa, our downtown is dead. And there aren't that many surface parking lots left in the core.

[steel]

Originally Posted by desertpunk

Office towers are more efficient. Do you really want a suburban corporate campus of 10 story buildings downtown? Because unless you know of a firm that willingly takes hundreds of thousands of square feet in scattered locations off a single lease, I don't think such a configuration could compete with suburbs or with a single tall building. And certainly smaller firms can and should build more human-scaled offices. But if Buffalo had the kind of financial services firms as Charlotte, they would either end up in a huge suburban office campus or in a large office tower. And don't tell me that's a far-fetched scenario. Buffalo's banks remind me very much of where Charlotte's were 20 years ago.

The other advantage to taller office buildings is that they allow a concentration of employers without creating a downtown ghost town after 6 pm. Instead of shorter office buildings with blank or reflective glass streetwalls, developers can instead build more people-friendly structures with residential and retail between a few tall towers. I live in a city with nothing but crappy 10-15 story office towers. Except for our own version of Chippewa, our downtown is dead. And there aren't that many surface parking lots left in the core.

Where have I ever written anything about wanting a suburban office park?? Get real. You really need to read up about architecture and urbanism a bit. Your concepts of what a tower can do are not realistic in any way. I am not arguing against towers I am arguing against the perception of what a tower can do. Buffalo does not need height. It needs density and street activity. Towers will not do that. Oh by the way I don't want crappy 10 story buildings either. I want good ones.

[fubo]

Hotel at the Lafayette will have room for history

"Collaboration" and "public-private partnerships" have been buzzwords for cultural organizations in recent years.

But Buffalo & Erie County Historical Society and Hotel at the Lafayette are taking them to a new art form.

The museum's collection of 19th-century artifacts -- including dinnerware, swatches and photographs -- are being integrated into the design of the renovated, soon-to-open historic hotel and accompanying Pan-American Grill and Brewery....

...Earl Ketry, co-owner with Rocco Termini of the hotel and restaurant...also suggested the Buffalo History Museum consider docent-led tours, possibly dressed in period cloths, which Brown thought was a great idea.

"I told Melissa, help me turn the Lafayette into the world's coolest 110-year-old hotel, and we will find a way to be helpful," Ketry said. "I want them to take ownership of the Lafayette, and help make it the property it was in circa 1900."

http://www.buffalonews.com/city/comm...icle775198.ece

[fubo]

Originally Posted by steel

Where have I ever written anything about wanting a suburban office park?? Get real. You really need to read up about architecture and urbanism a bit. Your concepts of what a tower can do are not realistic in any way. I am not arguing against towers I am arguing against the perception of what a tower can do. Buffalo does not need height. It needs density and street activity. Towers will not do that. Oh by the way I don't want crappy 10 story buildings either. I want good ones.

Why are you always so hostile and condescending (without the cred to back it up) against anyone that has a view different than yours? Is it just a massive insecurity?

[xzmattzx]

Originally Posted by fubo

Why are you always so hostile and condescending (without the cred to back it up) against anyone that has a view different than yours? Is it just a massive insecurity?

You and him both seem to have an edge when you post in here. How about everyone just keeps things civil and cordial in here, rather than letting your vendettas get in the way of rational discussion?

[fubo]

Originally Posted by xzmattzx

You and him both seem to have an edge when you post in here. How about everyone just keeps things civil and cordial in here, rather than letting your vendettas get in the way of rational discussion?

Noted, will do my part.

[desertpunk]

Originally Posted by steel

Where have I ever written anything about wanting a suburban office park?? Get real. You really need to read up about architecture and urbanism a bit. Your concepts of what a tower can do are not realistic in any way. I am not arguing against towers I am arguing against the perception of what a tower can do. Buffalo does not need height. It needs density and street activity. Towers will not do that. Oh by the way I don't want crappy 10 story buildings either. I want good ones.

Towers don't add density?

Contrary to popular opinion, suburban office parks aren't terrible places but they are just too anodyne (for a reason) to be plunked into a diverse urban setting. My point is that they do offer the kind of environment that the employers you need to create 'vibrant and lively' cities prefer. Or they locate in towers. What you had described is some kind of mixed use cluster of shorter buildings which may be a nice addition to the streetscape BUT wouldn't attract any significant employer. You can't have it both ways. You can't bring Buffalo back to vibrancy without jobs and the biggest employers don't locate in fractional office components of short, mixed use developments. Of course if it's all just a zero-sum game and you would rather densify the urban core to attract suburbanites who will then become reverse commuters, then I see your point.

[fubo]

Reverse commuters add zero to any metro areas economy or vibrancy. They are just taking their little piece of the pie and eating it at a different slightly different picnic table. As an analogy just ask yourself what adds more vibrancy to a neighborhood, a sit down restaurant or a drive through?

[desertpunk]

Originally Posted by fubo

Reverse commuters add zero to any metro areas economy or vibrancy. They are just taking their little piece of the pie and eating it at a different slightly different picnic table. As an analogy just ask yourself what adds more vibrancy to a neighborhood, a sit down restaurant or a drive through?

Exactly. And if you fail to entice employers with economic development tools such as Class A office space in quantity, those employers will locate in the 'burbs and you get the reverse commuters no matter how wonderfully precious your urban revitalized neighborhoods are. When Buffalo first grew, people walked to their jobs. How would they ever do that if employers can't find suitable space for their operations? Urban residents would have to drive to work in the suburbs. So they would still need cars...and places to park them.

[AndrewJM3D]

Originally Posted by steel

Comparing development in Buffalo to Toronto and Chicago is silly. Those cities get 5 times the rent. But that said there are hundreds of towers in Chicago plopped on top of 10 story dull parking deck blobs. Every tower comes with parking - don't fool yourself. A city with dense lively streets is many times more appealing than one with towers and empty streets.

If the parking is within the tower that sure as hell beats a surface lot. I fail to see how that's an issue. I was under the impression how you worded it that a new building would result in a new surface lot. Also I can name a few new buildings going up in T.O with zero parking except for Zip car share spots and bicycle spaces. I'm not sure how a new residential building would result in empty streets. I was also never comparing Toronto/Chicago to Buffalo, I was responding to your comment on parking lots.