Johannesburg Urban Landscaping Ideas

[Luf]

Originally Posted by eyrie

Harkeb I actually see Luf's relevance on landscaping.What's the use of have pretty landscaping when the "power to the people" mob throw crap all over the place? You can't just plant some grass and trees and say "deh, have fun" you need organizations who maintain the place for everyone.Otherwise this place will always be divided between those that sleep on the grass and those that would like to walk there dogs in pristine environments.You can call me whatever you want to but you guys out there know what I'm talking about....

Exactly mate.. that was what i was leaning towards. Whats the point in having a huge, beautiful park if its covered in litter and there in no law inforcement. You walk the streets of European and American CBDS and there is a cop on every corner, telling venders to move on.

The problem with our council is that they put up art/trees and think all the CBD problems will go away. Why put in place new pavements when they just get covered with paper and plastic in a few hours?

[Pule]

Took a walk yesterday morning and Luf, all that supposed to happen is that funds need to be raised to make sure that the whole CBD is a CID. The irritating things is when people put liquor next to rubbish bin instead of inside. But I would like to differ with you when you say that the litter situation doesn't change. But I guess we can have the debite after we and other Joburgers have had our next walk in the CBD.

Corner Sauer and Bree, where live evants normally take place.










Joubert Park

[Pule]

This is lekker, I mostly like the art. I think we in Jozi need to mix African art with somethings like this, even if its at a smaller scale.

[eyrie]

those are nice pics Pule and I see the place is quite tidy but it's going to take a while before you see a more intergrated crowd sitting on those park benches. I for one would feel nervous.Still I hope that can change and until then, we need to give medals to those that venture before us and say "jump in, the water's fine"...

[eyrie]

I mean, you Pule can walk there and take pics but you know that I, as a white man will statistically have a harder time promenading unnoticed in that park and one should understand it from that perspective. It's like saying to you that you'll have no problem walking around Orania and you're being silly and slightly prejudiced.
Doing a bit of landscaping will not bring the people together.This a sensitive issue about races and their differently perceived behavioral patterns...you can't possibly tell me that you don't know what I'm getting at...it is not my intention to offend anyone but merely to tell it like it is as nicely as possible

[Luf]

Agree with you mate but i think thats another discussion/issue all together.

@Pule, i give credit where credit is due. The council/private sector have made endless effort in the CBD and in many many areas its paying off very well (as you can see in the pictures you provide). My issue was that there was a major lack of law enforcement. Not seeing one cop in a 2hour drive along the majority of the CBD is not a good thing. If i didnt know better or was a tourist i would have felt very very uncomfortable there - and that is one of the Major issues the CBD is facing - trying to gain confidence that the area is improving in safety - how can you promise that when you see no cops walking the beat?

Walked around Newtown and it was spotless! +1 to the council - same goes with bank city and majority of Braam. Awsome work both the public and private sector are doing!
However alot of streets where packed with litter, bins that had not been cleared in i would say a week - that really needs to be addressed!

I agree with you Pule, its hard to debate this kind of stuff here, using pictures to back up our statements. I would really like to organise a walk/drive sometime this month/next month prefebly on a sunday when the streets are not to full and we can really take our time to see and debate.

[Pule]

@ eyrie, I get what you sayingbut I don't think its a race thing at all. There darkies like me who will never set their foot in those kind of places and some still think that Hillbrow its a hell hole and they will never go there and the amazing thing is that you see blacks and whites mixing together in those areas even though its not on a larger scale. I must admit that at first I didnt' feel secure but with time I was fine.

@Luf, I get what u saying buddy. We really have to have a walk.

[eyrie]

thanks for taking it the way you did

[Harkeb]

a beach pool in the park would be a nice addition too, sinlar to this in Berlin.

[Pule]

WOW, that would be nice.

[N.I.C.E.]

I think there is a great posibility of creating a park with cultural buildings and huge office blobs with spacicious attriums on the southern part of the cbd by Marshalls Town. I wonder what Neil Fraser would think of this!

[joburg]

I like that idea, but I'm just not so sure about the location. I think Standard Bank has quite an established presence in that area, and also I think it might be a bit too close to the light industry south of the motorway.

I have always thought a great idea for a park would be to sink the railway lines leading into Park Station, and then plant a park above it. This could also be used as a space for iconic landmarks, such as the Mandela bridge, the Queen Elizabeth bridge, the old station structure that sits in Newtown, and also new projects such as museums. It could also be used effectively as a fan park for sports matches. The park would end in a square leading up to Park Station, and could perhaps it could go even further to the other side of the Station, and link up with Joubert Park?

I think it'll be a good location because it would provide a nice link between Braamfontein and Newtown, which at the moment is rather seperated by these really horrible railway lines.

Here is my idea. Sorry NICE - i hope you don't mind that I borrowed your image and your colours.

[Luf]

Joburg i agree mate. I would love to see those railways covered and your proposal is great. Send it to the council/transnet!!

[Harkeb]

Superb. Thumbs up!

[SYDNEY]

I saw plans for a park covering the railway tracks back in the early nineties - it was a proposal for a massive casino complex, apartments, retail and parklands around lakes - it was FANTASTIC. A shame that it never saw the light of day

[N.I.C.E.]

NO problem Joburg.

I also like your idea. I thought about it also, but it will be very expensive and I think it will be sad to miss the dynamics that the trains gives the city.

Maybe it will be possible to narrow the train tracks and create a park on either "banks" of Braamfontein and Newtown and maybe create an elevated park near the station.

But I still think the central parts near the Carlton need green areas so I would still prefer a park in Marshals Town.

But it will all need proper analysis and a lot of hard work.

Here are my changes to "Joburgs" and my own ideas.

[joburg]

Originally Posted by ENIGMA

I saw plans for a park covering the railway tracks back in the early nineties - it was a proposal for a massive casino complex, apartments, retail and parklands around lakes - it was FANTASTIC. A shame that it never saw the light of day

Yup I remember you telling us about that. Indeed a shame that it didn't see the light of day.

NICE, yeah it would be really expensive to implement a project like this, especially if one were to sink the railway lines. I think what one would need to do is move the shunting yards to a location further away from the city, and then to only keep those tracks necessary to carry trains into Park Station. Then, as you say, one could create 'park banks' on each side, connected via iconic pedestrian bridges across the railways.

I think project on this magnitude could do so much for Joburg. We need projects that make our city more liveable, and it's very difficult to do in a city that doesn't tend to have the natural beauty of Durban or Cape Town.

[SYDNEY]

Originally Posted by joburg

Yup I remember you telling us about that. Indeed a shame that it didn't see the light of day.

NICE, yeah it would be really expensive to implement a project like this, especially if one were to sink the railway lines. I think what one would need to do is move the shunting yards to a location further away from the city, and then to only keep those tracks necessary to carry trains into Park Station. Then, as you say, one could create 'park banks' on each side, connected via iconic pedestrian bridges across the railways.

I think project on this magnitude could do so much for Joburg. We need projects that make our city more liveable, and it's very difficult to do in a city that doesn't tend to have the natural beauty of Durban or Cape Town.

It can be done sweety - just look at Melbourne, a really shitty setting (by world standards) but they have turned it into a fantastic urban environment - to hell with mountains etc. some cities don't need them Jozi has the money to create spectacular settings.

[clive3300]

Originally Posted by SYDNEY

It can be done sweety - just look at Melbourne, a really shitty setting (by world standards) but they have turned it into a fantastic urban environment - to hell with mountains etc. some cities don't need them Jozi has the money to create spectacular settings.

True - but Melbourne got wealthy first - CBD was pretty grim until very recently by all accounts. They have done the river very well, but the CBD has virtually no open space at all - it aint that nice to have lunch in - you have to go to the other side of the river, to surrounding inner suburban parks or docklands - virtually not worth it on a lunch break.

Back to joburg - hard to justify extensive landscaping when most people (apparently) dont care and there are so many other draws on funding (eg. cleaning and policing). Its not yet clear to me that this sort of landscaping will have a direct effect on urban renewal.

I think they should be looking at smart+cheap ways to do limited landscaping. Moving the railway lines is never going to happen - far too much disruption.

Knock down crappy, low value buildings and create green space there. Paved squares dont look that good in Joburg IMO - the surrounding buildings are invariably too mismatched. Squares look better in European cities where heights and designs are continuous.

Just some random thoughts!

[joburg]

Yep you're right Clive, but I do think that it's something that Joburg City should consider in the future. In the meantime, Joburg should indeed focus on empty/derelict spaces - and two spring to mind immediately. The first is the space next to the Barbican that currently serves as a parking lot. The second is the space behind the Rissik Street Post Office where the Oppenheimer impalas used to be. One could very easily plant a park there - not a paved square as, besides not looking good in Joburg, can be quite unfriendly in character. What they did at the Civic Theatre could be done in that space next to the Post Office.

That said - Joburg City Parks should be commended for the work they have done in the city. They really are fantastic. Check their website out - http://www.jhbcityparks.co.za/ It's informative, and they have done a heck load in greening areas in Joburg that previously never saw the greenery that the rest of Joburg enjoyed.