Aye or Nay Poll - Graffiti

[urban 2.0]

I couldn't figure out how to add a poll to an existing thread - but on the suggestion of DrT - here's SSC first Aye or Nay Poll.

The Motion reads:

"Tagging is scribbles. Graffiti is art. Fine the hell out of taggers, but graffiti artists should work together with property owners and the city so that private and city property is not defaced without permission."

[algonquin]

I say nay. Graffitti is something that can never be 'regulated'... it's an oxy-moron.

The best graffitti happens in areas where it reaches a critical mass, like the alleys along Queen West (between Spadina and Bathurst). A property owner would be seriously delusional to either not expect it, or to try to stop it. It's part of the urban fabric.

Also, graffitti is an artform in constant flux. Working together with property owners and city = murals. Again, not graffitti... very different.

[DrT]

This is fun.
We can be "The SCC Shadow City Council" and advise the real City Council on citizen sentiment.
If only our numbers were bigger.

[Filip]

Nay, call me anal retentive, but I don't believe people should be drawing on walls, no matter what the situation.

[monkeyronin]

It works fine as is now: Writing on a wall without permission is vandalism and therefore illegal, but if the property owner consents to having whatever they want on their wall (whether they've commissioned an artist, or just don't mind people scribbling on their walls) then that is their decision and should be respected.

[Jaye101]

The poll question isn't really that clear.

[Jaye101]

Originally Posted by Filip

Nay, call me anal retentive, but I don't believe people should be drawing on walls, no matter what the situation.

I was walking through graffiti alley when these two hot Swiss guys were painting the mural below. They said they had done over a dozen all over the city. Now would you rather see that, or the blank wall beneath it. I'm happy I live in a city that has an abundance of these pieces for me and others to enjoy. If I wanted to see blank walls I'd stay inside.

[gei]

"hot" swiss guys???

um... anyway, obviously if it's something tasteful like above most people would say it's fine. but when it's blatant vandalism, not so much

[Filip]

Hot Swiss guys? Doing graffiti?

Swiss+Graffiti=? I haven't seen a shred of graffiti in Geneva, not even a tag.

[Grey Towers]

Aye to the poll question, but, once again, I wonder how effective it is to fine people who will just dodge such a penalty. Short jail terms, however heavy-handed that seems, would send a stronger message. You can't squeeze money out of peripatetic teen vandals, but putting them behind bars for a month might give them pause to reconsider their antisocial acts.

Graffiti artwork that has been okayed by owner of wall =
The illicit scribbling of gang slogans or monikers = an urban blight.

[Rumors]

I kind of like it.

[InTheBeach]

Speaking of Swiss, I an going to abstain from this vote (but this is because the question is not something for which I could say aye or nay).

[Waterloo_Guy]

I don't care how "artistic" it is, if someone spray paints someone's property or public property without permission, he belongs in prison.

[DrT]

Originally Posted by Filip

Nay, call me anal retentive, but I don't believe people should be drawing on walls, no matter what the situation.

C'mmon Filip, what about what it used to be called when previous generations did it, WITH PERMISSION: tromp d'oleil.

[Jaye101]

Originally Posted by Waterloo_Guy

I don't care how "artistic" it is, if someone spray paints someone's property or public property without permission, he belongs in prison.

We need to lock this person up right away.

(Taken with my iPhone, sorry about the quality. Behind the east side of the Bathurst Streetwall just north of College)

[Filip]

Originally Posted by DrT

C'mmon Filip, what about what it used to be called when previous generations did it, WITH PERMISSION: tromp d'oleil.

I used to draw on walls, and got punished severly for it. Did I mention I was 3?

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Jaye101

I was walking through graffiti alley when these two hot Swiss guys were painting the mural below. They said they had done over a dozen all over the city. Now would you rather see that, or the blank wall beneath it.

The blank wall, no question. That is a repulsive and stupid eyesore. Who the fock do they think they are assaulting people's eyes with that shite, and using other people's property to do it? You may not like the way I look and dress, but I don't force you to look at me every time you walk past a certain street. Do I? No.

The reason the argument over this is circular is because it's simple: graffiti is vandalism, end of story. Oh, sure, once in a blue moon you get that precious Montreal guy who does zippers at crosswalks at which the urbanistas positively coo in delight, but even that gets old, and at the end of the day (if you have half a brain) you invariably come to the realization that graffiti, in effect, is the result of a dickhead with spraypaint who has decided that you, dear urban dweller, must look at these squiggles he has painted on a wall.

Look at me. Look at me! I am an infantile moron who outgrew my colouring book! Blank walls are tyranny! This is a city! It's urban! The heyday of graffiti may have been late 1970s early 1980s New York City subway and the style has not fundamentally progressed since then, but, but...it's art and this is the city!

Look at me!

[DrT]

Originally Posted by rousseau

The blank wall, no question. That is a repulsive and stupid eyesore. Who the fock do they think they are assaulting people's eyes with that shite, and using other people's property to do it? You may not like the way I look and dress, but I don't force you to look at me every time you walk past a certain street. Do I? No.

The reason the argument over this is circular is because it's simple: graffiti is vandalism, end of story. Oh, sure, once in a blue moon you get that precious Montreal guy who does zippers at crosswalks at which the urbanistas positively coo in delight, but even that gets old, and at the end of the day (if you have half a brain) you invariably come to the realization that graffiti, in effect, is the result of a dickhead with spraypaint who has decided that you, dear urban dweller, must look at these squiggles he has painted on a wall.
Look at me. Look at me! I am an infantile moron who outgrew my colouring book! Blank walls are tyranny! This is a city! It's urban! The heyday of graffiti may have been late 1970s early 1980s New York City subway and the style has not fundamentally progressed since then, but, but...it's art and this is the city!

Look at me!

rousseau, I like the way you think.

[HousBinPharteen]

rousseau, hear hear..agree completely.

It all boils down to respecting other people's property. You cannot turn this into an argument of whether someone likes blank walls or art because that is subjective and depends on people's likes/dislikes.

How many of these graffiti artists would like me dropping and painting their house or their person? I highly doubt I'd get a positive response.

[iliamo]

No one forces anybody to look at the wall, the thing is that if you choose to go through some dark alleyway (in which graffiti usually resides) then you'll most likely see some spray paint. Graffiti does not bother me whatsoever, and if I were to live downtown, in a less commercial, but still urban area, such as Kensington Market, I'd be fine, and even glad to have a beautiful piece of graffiti on the side of my building, better than a worn out brick wall anyway. Sure, not all property owners feel the same way I do, so I think the solution that would satisfy most people here was if the artist came to the front door, rang the doorbell, and asked, "Hello, my name is ______ and I am a graffiti artist, would you mind if I drew a mural, no gang representation, on the side of your building?" They say no, then no, they say sure, then sure. Not only does it become legalized, but also organized. Don't complain that you don't want to see that "shite." The second image posted by Jaye, taken with the iPhone is spectacular, I'd expect to see that in a museum. I'd prefer one of those in my room above the Mona Lisa, if price weren't an object.

Moreover, don't call these guys "infantile morons who outgrew their colouring books." I mean really... Do you have any idea how much talent it takes to draw something like that? All the colors, details, shadowing. You call that an eyesore? Let's see you make an eyesore. I think its beautiful.