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Old May 6th, 2006, 04:29 AM   #141
malec
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luv2bebrown
no, im trying to say that malls, like many businesses in Dubai both do well and fail. i have seen countless restaurants open and close... if I were to analyze the finances of just those closing down, would it be fair for me to say the restaurant industry dubai is not profitable?

find out from your friend what malls he works with.

assuming you are correct... lets say malls in dubai are not profitable.
why are MORE and MORE being built? whatis your explanation?
Not just why are they being built but how come the developers manage to lease all the space. For example, here's the latest news from an outdoor shopping area in the jumeirah beach residence:



http://gulfnews.com/business/Development/10037975.html
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Old May 6th, 2006, 04:35 AM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomarandlee
blah blah blah
Why does every thread turn out exactly the same. People have heard about the workers' problems for the millionth time now. Why not just have one big thread about the issue and post everything there. I asked you this before but I'll say it again, why do you bother persisting with these arguments. You should just accept that not everyone will agree with you and just leave it.

Now back to the airport:
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Old May 6th, 2006, 04:35 AM   #143
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Quote:
luv2bebrown]

Of course, id LOVE to visit Cuba to see what the reality is and make up my mind for myself, but my government prohibits me from travelling there.
go through Canada or Mexico. Tens of thousands of Americans do it every year.

If everyone loves the system in Cuba though then why don't they have elections to show that F.Castro has the mandate of the Cuban people?
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Old May 6th, 2006, 04:43 AM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malec
Why does every thread turn out exactly the same. People have heard about the workers' problems for the millionth time now. Why not just have one big thread about the issue and post everything there. I asked you this before but I'll say it again, why do you bother persisting with these arguments. You should just accept that not everyone will agree with you and just leave it.

Now back to the airport:

blah blah blah? Good to know that the conditions in Dubai are so "blah blah blah" to you malec.

Why do I persist in arguments with people who deny and downplay the role of workers in Dubai? You don't ask who are not bothered by it or downplay it to shut up and accept the fact that others do find it deplorable.

Very ironic and troubling that you ask those who show concern about the workers to remain silent over those who are denial and downplay them.
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Old May 6th, 2006, 04:43 AM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey
I don't think Dubai is a joke. However I agree that this project has some planning problems. It looks boring and the residential properties are too close to the runways.
It looks boring because this is only a masterplan, the details of every single building hasn't been worked out yet. It's like on google earth where you see a big box for a building when in fact it looks totally different.

This airport may be too big a but it's planned to take 20 years to build. They will start with a small portion and add more and more as time goes on.
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Old May 6th, 2006, 04:46 AM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomarandlee
blah blah blah? Good to know that the conditions in Dubai are so "blah blah blah" to you malec.

Why do I persist in arguments with people who deny and downplay the role of workers in Dubai? You don't ask who are not bothered by it or downplay it to shut up and accept the fact that others do find it deplorable.

Very ironic and troubling that you ask those who show concern about the workers to remain silent over those who are denial and downplay them.
I'm only saying blah blah blah because I've heard you say the exact same thing a thousand times already. I'm not telling you to stay silent. Everyone already knows your views on the whole thing so there's no need to say it again. If you care so much why don't you go do something about it?
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Old May 6th, 2006, 01:13 PM   #147
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it is just annoying u pop in in every Dubai thread, pointing out your views again and again (no matter if they are right or wrong, and, of course, the thread starts to become completely off topic, nomarandlee.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey
They argue that the residential properties on this poorly planned masterplan are more than 6km from the runways when it's bloody obvious from looking at the plans that they're much closer than that. Just swing one of those 4.5km runways on its axis and you can hit most of the residential areas.

it is CLEARLY stated in the article that they are 6km away from the runways.
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Old May 6th, 2006, 01:15 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luv2bebrown
assuming you are correct... lets say malls in dubai are not profitable. why are MORE and MORE being built? whatis your explanation?
The same reason why Burj Dubai is being built. The same reason that Kuwait and Bahrain suddenly have proposals for 1000m+ towers to eclipse even Burj Dubai. The same reason that Sharjah simply must have an airport even though no-one wants to fly there. It's driven by ego. None of these scrapers will be profitable. The malls are built by rival families trying to outdo each other. Some can justify their expense as loss leaders to make the residential properties in the same complex more desirable and prestigious but, in and of themselves, the upmarklet malls are mostly loss makers.
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Old May 6th, 2006, 01:16 PM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubaiflo
it is CLEARLY stated in the article that they are 6km away from the runways.
Where? I read the original article that launched this thread and nowhere does it say the residentials are at least 6km from the runways:
http://today.reuters.com/news/articl...AI-AIRPORT.xml



Dubai unveils $33 bln airport city

DUBAI (Reuters) - Gulf tourism and trade hub Dubai said on Tuesday it plans to invest $33 billion in building what it said would be the world's largest airport and city in Jebel Ali, home to the region's biggest free-trade zone.

A statement by organizers of the state-run project, Dubai World Central, said the multi-phase 140 sq km (54 square mile) development around the planned international airport will include a cargo city, residential and commercial quarters and a Golf course.

Dubai is pouring hundreds of billions of dollars into infrastructure and real estate developments, making it home to an estimated 17 percent of the world's cranes.

"Dubai World Central International Airport (JXB) ... when complete will be the world's largest with a capacity equal to that currently of Chicago's O'Hare and London's Heathrow (combined)," it said.

"Dubai World Central will be a new city where eventually some 750,000 people will live and work," it said, adding the project was designed to support Dubai's aviation, tourism, commercial and logistics requirements until 2050.

The airport will have a capacity of 120 million passengers and 12 million tonnes of cargo per year. It will have six 4.5 kilometer runways capable of receiving all aircraft, including the double-decker Airbus 380.

The three-terminal airport will dedicate one of its hubs to low-cost airlines, it said. It will be linked to the Dubai International Airport via an express rail system.

Passenger traffic at Dubai International Airport increased 14 percent in 2005 to 24 million people compared with 2004.

The airport expects 28 million passengers and 1.5 million tonnes of freight in 2006.

On Monday, Dubai announced plans to build the world's largest hotel as part of a $27 billion resort project to spearhead its drive to become a global tourism hub.
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Old May 6th, 2006, 01:20 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey
The same reason why Burj Dubai is being built. The same reason that Kuwait and Bahrain suddenly have proposals for 1000m+ towers to eclipse even Burj Dubai. The same reason that Sharjah simply must have an airport even though no-one wants to fly there. It's driven by ego. None of these scrapers will be profitable. The malls are built by rival families trying to outdo each other. Some can justify their expense as loss leaders to make the residential properties in the same complex more desirable and prestigious but, in and of themselves, the upmarklet malls are mostly loss makers.
Most of the supertall towers are built by individual developers and if they don't sell they don't break ground (has happened before that a tower is cancelled if it doesn't sell). The burj dubai is a different story but almost all the other towers, like the res towers in the marina, burj al alam, etc are not just built for the fun of it.
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Old May 6th, 2006, 01:22 PM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malec
Most of the supertall towers are built by individual developers and if they don't sell they don't break ground (has happened before that a tower is cancelled if it doesn't sell). The burj dubai is a different story but almost all the other towers, like the res towers in the marina, burj al alam, etc are not just built for the fun of it.
Some of the towers may be commerical but the Burj Dubai is clearly not. The 1000m+ proposed towers in Kuwait and Bahrain look even less commercial.
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Old May 6th, 2006, 01:30 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey
Where? I read the original article that launched this thread and nowhere does it say the residentials are at least 6km from the runways:
http://today.reuters.com/news/articl...AI-AIRPORT.xml
In another article maybe?
6km is impossible, it has to be less than that.

Anyway, I don't care. In Chicago our window was 5 metres from the train tracks and I did not give 2 shits
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Old May 6th, 2006, 01:35 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey
Some of the towers may be commerical but the Burj Dubai is clearly not. The 1000m+ proposed towers in Kuwait and Bahrain look even less commercial.
not some, almost all. Emaar is the biggest developer in the world so they can afford to do something like this
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Old May 6th, 2006, 04:01 PM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey
The malls are built by rival families trying to outdo each other. Some can justify their expense as loss leaders to make the residential properties in the same complex more desirable and prestigious but, in and of themselves, the upmarklet malls are mostly loss makers.
Correct, but even if the mall as a entity would not make money, their biggest tenants franchises are also owned by the mall owner, so they do make money.
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Old May 6th, 2006, 04:10 PM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malec
In another article maybe?
6km is impossible, it has to be less than that.
Why is impossible? Has any of us seen any plan to scale of the development? Monkey's ass umption is based just on a artist impression of the development and on the size of the runways that as per him will be 4.5 km long.

Even if the artis impression render and the runway length would be correct, you still have to consider that 4.5km is the PAVED length of the runway used for take-off and landing, while there are hundreds of meters more to one side to allow the taxiing and turning of the planes, as well as a very long unpaved buffer zone at the end of the runway, as a safety precaution in case a plane can't stop while landing or can't take off. The same unpaved part can be used later on for lengthening the runway if a even bigger plane then A380 get build.

Bottom line; what looks like the runway in the render, is longer then 4.5 km.
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Old May 6th, 2006, 04:19 PM   #156
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Wait if there are residentials nxt to the runway i wouldnt wanna live there..dont u think that the sounds of planes etc will be irratating? i dont have much info on this project by the way...
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Old May 6th, 2006, 04:42 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AltinD
Why is impossible? Has any of us seen any plan to scale of the development? Monkey's ass umption is based just on a artist impression of the development and on the size of the runways that as per him will be 4.5 km long.

Even if the artis impression render and the runway length would be correct, you still have to consider that 4.5km is the PAVED length of the runway used for take-off and landing, while there are hundreds of meters more to one side to allow the taxiing and turning of the planes, as well as a very long unpaved buffer zone at the end of the runway, as a safety precaution in case a plane can't stop while landing or can't take off. The same unpaved part can be used later on for lengthening the runway if a even bigger plane then A380 get build.

Bottom line; what looks like the runway in the render, is longer then 4.5 km.
I'm saying this because if the whole thing is 140km^2 so that's roughly 12*12km (or maybe 10*14km in reality). The res areas would have to be at the very edge of the masterplan. Look at this map below:



The res area to the bottom left (on the left of the golf course) is the only res area that's within this distance. There is also a res section over on the bottom right. That's much closer.

I don't think it matters though since the runways are placed so that planes won't be flying over houses. The res districts are not in-line with any runways.

I would live there. If I can stay 5 metres from a train track (without getting pissed off) then I'd say I could handle this
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Old May 6th, 2006, 04:46 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural Bahraini
Wait if there are residentials nxt to the runway i wouldnt wanna live there..dont u think that the sounds of planes etc will be irratating? i dont have much info on this project by the way...
Have you looked at the rendering (page 1 of the thread)?
There are no residential areas next to the runways. There is a whole cargo facility and industrial complex inbetween. The residential areas would be lucky to hear a whiff on a windless night. Looking at the plan, noise polution in the residential areas is not an issue.
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Old May 6th, 2006, 06:07 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malec
I'm saying this because if the whole thing is 140km^2 so that's roughly 12*12km (or maybe 10*14km in reality). The res areas would have to be at the very edge of the masterplan. Look at this map below:



The res area to the bottom left (on the left of the golf course) is the only res area that's within this distance. There is also a res section over on the bottom right. That's much closer.

I don't think it matters though since the runways are placed so that planes won't be flying over houses. The res districts are not in-line with any runways.

I would live there. If I can stay 5 metres from a train track (without getting pissed off) then I'd say I could handle this
Yet you shouldn't have to live close to an airport to have access to a railway! I bet you also won't like taking a train crowded with bags and luggage and the like, but would rather have a seperate commuter train. Thats one thing that seems to have been forgotten: public transport even if thats just been realised.
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Old May 6th, 2006, 06:20 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_taylor
Yet you shouldn't have to live close to an airport to have access to a railway! I bet you also won't like taking a train crowded with bags and luggage and the like, but would rather have a seperate commuter train. Thats one thing that seems to have been forgotten: public transport even if thats just been realised.
I don't get yiour point, but JXB will be connected with DXB via dedicated high-speed express train lines (Blue Line), one for passangers and one for the lugagges, while Dubai Metro's red line will connect it with the rest of Dubai. What more do you want?

Is sickening hearing all these "experts" bashing Dubai for "lack" of services and facilities, when in reality non only those same things are planned, but are even being implemented as we speek.
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