General Discussions

[BabuCS]

I thought the 15 million expatriates have been doing a good job over a period of two decades for the state of Kerala ... sending back their valuable earnings to banks in Kerala. I wonder what else they could have done better for the welfare of the people of the state. So our problem has been poor planning .. and that is showing up in TVM.

[Tri Man]

Originally Posted by Ajaypp

- Thanks AKS. What we need right now are pragmatic solutions which can be implemented within the constraints of the existing system. Else, we will end up waiting forever for the perfect fix.

Ajay,I fully agree with you.Since the actual city plan (along with the modifications in drainage systems are not available in complete form with the government/corporation),the root cause of the problem cannot be identified from desk.Earlier there was 4-5 approach roads which acted as storm drain and some paddy fields acted as the sump......to trace out these missing links,we may have to take the help of people who had worked at that time.

Today,there are sophisticated GIS / Fluid Dynamics softwares which can give an instant solutions to the hydology/flooding problems once the satellite map/topography of the area is loaded.
link
Software Links

[sanjay4]

Originally Posted by BabuCS

I thought the 15 million expatriates have been doing a good job over a period of two decades for the state of Kerala ... sending back their valuable earnings to banks in Kerala. I wonder what else they could have done better for the welfare of the people of the state. So our problem has been poor planning .. and that is showing up in TVM.

Yes I have the same opinion. The biggest contribution for development from the NRIs(NRK) is sending money back home and investing in real estate or other Industries etc. The NRI contribute in a big way for the devleopment of Kerala and India . Most of the NRIs prefer to send their savings and investments back home rather than investing in the country that provides us food , shelter and good living. So it is natural for people to get frustrated and complain. Even after all these complaints and frustrations, we dont stop sending money or stop investing .Gujjus and Biharis may not have the level of awareness that mallu has . Last time when the honorable Central mininster (NRI) came here , some people complained about the inadequacy in the infrastructure and the complexities for NRIs to setup Business . With all these shortcomings, people are ready to invest in Kerala/India. Because it is called "HOME".

[Ajaypp]

- There is no doubt that the remittances from the diaspora prop up the local economy, but how much real investment has there been? Very little, if any. Buying a bunch of flats and villas and either leaving them vacant or renting them out has little positive impact on the wider economy.

Kerala is as investment friendly as any State, once you take the trouble to find out the details. We have the best law and order situation in the country, the best social infrastructure and the best human resources. Yet, how much inbound investment has there been into Kerala?

One of the primary reasons that States like Gujarat, AP, Maharastra, TN and WB get investments is due to their diaspora. The figures are very clear on this. It is not that Modi is the only one who conducts GIMs, it is that there is a clear and continuous interest to support from the expats.

No one expects NRKs to abandon their interests and flood the State with money. That is nonsense. But the bare minimum that can be done is to provide effective representation of Kerala abraod.

Amid the storm of "star nites" and "award functions", how many events to educate the world-wide investor community have been held? Let's ask ourselves, whether the last time someone asked us about whether to invest in Kerala, we replied with a confident "Yes" or with a tirade of how bad the Government is? If we don't market our State, who will....the Gujarathis?

Case in point. Despite getting nearly 300 Cm of rain a year, only a few areas of Trivandrum flood during torrential showers. Perhaps less than 1% of the city area, that too for a few hours at most. Most of Mumbai, Kolkata, Chennai and Patna flood annually in much smaller showers. Yet, our media raise such a hue and cry that one would think the whole city went under. Yes, the area in question includes the main transportation hubs but the situation has surely improved over the past 3 years. And I am sure that the situation will improve even more when the proposed flood control measures are completed.

We seem to have started comparing Trivandrum and Kerala with the standards set abroad. Let's not forget that this state is part of India and not an extension of the US of A or the Emirates. We should be rooted in developing world reality and not in developed world utopia when we comment about the progress that we see. As I always say, leaping forward for step changes usually lands us on our faces.

No offence meant to anyone, but I am sure all of us agree that it is easy to sit back and criticise, but it is tough to go out and make a change. Tough but very rewarding.

[BabuCS]

We must understand that mallu diaspora is a bit different from Gujarati or AP; there are only very few institutional investors among mallus. Most of the high earning mallu guys are professionals; they have very little time to go back to Kerala and manage a business. So in the absence of a vehicle for individual investment in the state, things would he hard for such a guy to invest. I guess that is one of the reasons people look for investments in real estate because that is well regulated and hassle free for the investor.

Let the Govt. create public/private models in the form of small companies and I am sure there will be a huge flow of NRI investment into it.

There is no doubt that each and every mallu NRI is an ambassador(both cultural and investment) for the state of kerala; and every one is doing their bit.

Gujarat is a different story. One of the most socially conscious business houses in the whole world recently relocated to that state .. so there must be something !!

[AAJACOB]

Originally Posted by Ajaypp

- There is no doubt that the remittances from the diaspora prop up the local economy, but how much real investment has there been? Very little, if any. Buying a bunch of flats and villas and either leaving them vacant or renting them out has little positive impact on the wider economy.

Kerala is as investment friendly as any State, once you take the trouble to find out the details. We have the best law and order situation in the country, the best social infrastructure and the best human resources. Yet, how much inbound investment has there been into Kerala?

One of the primary reasons that States like Gujarat, AP, Maharastra, TN and WB get investments is due to their diaspora. The figures are very clear on this. It is not that Modi is the only one who conducts GIMs, it is that there is a clear and continuous interest to support from the expats.

No one expects NRKs to abandon their interests and flood the State with money. That is nonsense. But the bare minimum that can be done is to provide effective representation of Kerala abraod.

Amid the storm of "star nites" and "award functions", how many events to educate the world-wide investor community have been held? Let's ask ourselves, whether the last time someone asked us about whether to invest in Kerala, we replied with a confident "Yes" or with a tirade of how bad the Government is? If we don't market our State, who will....the Gujarathis?

Case in point. Despite getting nearly 300 Cm of rain a year, only a few areas of Trivandrum flood during torrential showers. Perhaps less than 1% of the city area, that too for a few hours at most. Most of Mumbai, Kolkata, Chennai and Patna flood annually in much smaller showers. Yet, our media raise such a hue and cry that one would think the whole city went under. Yes, the area in question includes the main transportation hubs but the situation has surely improved over the past 3 years. And I am sure that the situation will improve even more when the proposed flood control measures are completed.

We seem to have started comparing Trivandrum and Kerala with the standards set abroad. Let's not forget that this state is part of India and not an extension of the US of A or the Emirates. We should be rooted in developing world reality and not in developed world utopia when we comment about the progress that we see. As I always say, leaping forward for step changes usually lands us on our faces.

No offence meant to anyone, but I am sure all of us agree that it is easy to sit back and criticise, but it is tough to go out and make a change. Tough but very rewarding.

Comparisons should be made if there is parity . It sounds unfair when a comparison is made between Gujarat, AP, Maharastra, TN Vs Kerala in terms of investment friendliness. Even i feel sad saying this . But realities are always bitter .While working in Kerala i always thought why Veli industrial estate turned out to be a grave yard of sick industries inspite of having such a prestigious institution like VSSC nearby. A massive complex of small scale industries can survive on the orders from VSSC , this itself shows how favourable is our position.

Unlike Gujarathis / Marathis especially Parsis from Mumbai who comprise of businessmen , Malayali diaspora abroad consists of mainly working class rather than a business community. Apart from the real estate boom thats created with NRI money malayalis are investing in the sunrise sectors of Kerala , mainly in hospitality sector ....For eg : LE Meridien Cochin , Upcoming Intercontinental hotel at cochin - Holiday Inn by Indroyal - capital retreat @ Tvm - Poovar island resort @ Tvm - 5 star resort @ thevally Kollam plus soo many self financing professional colleges which have come up with NRI money / TVm international School / ASB. Can anybody ignore the fact that CIAL , the first private airport in India is made with NRI funds.Can anybody forget the fact that the so called big purchasing power of Keralites is not beacause of any funda back home .It's this NRI money which complemented this malayali magic of not producing anything home and still be rich . & it's not the NRIS but the local media which highlights the infamous " Thampanoor Flooding"

[sudheeshnairs]

'Producing need not be goods alone, it can be services.

Kerala is a big in services, perhaps due to the high consumption pattern due to specific reasons. Banking, Insurance, Telecom, Tourism etc does very good business here. And I do not know how many of you know that the percapita GDP of Kerala is higher than TN OR Karnataka. And this doesnot include remittances from abroad.

Originally Posted by AAJACOB

malayali magic of not producing anything back home and still be rich .

[AAJACOB]

Originally Posted by sudheeshnairs

'Producing need not be goods alone, it can be services.

Kerala is a big in services, perhaps due to the high consumption pattern due to specific reasons. Banking, Insurance, Telecom, Tourism etc does very good business here. And I do not know how many of you know that the percapita GDP of Kerala is higher than TN OR Karnataka. And this doesnot include remittances from abroad.

I think you differ in perspective of the issue . The issue was about NRK contribution to Kerala economy.

Even the consumption pattern as you said is czz of the purchasing power of the people --- mostly by means of the petro currencies from abroad----- i believe that even the potential of Kerala to be a great software hub & Tourism hotspot is the contribution of NRK's .
So many airports in Kerala were made with an eye on the NRI traffic , and now it's complementing other sectors too , as air connectivity is the back bone of tourism & IT. See the tier 2 cities in Tn and karnataka are struggling czz of this reason.

[sunilananda]

Originally Posted by Ajaypp

- There is no doubt that the remittances from the diaspora prop up the local economy, but how much real investment has there been? Very little, if any. Buying a bunch of flats and villas and either leaving them vacant or renting them out has little positive impact on the wider economy.

Kerala is as investment friendly as any State, once you take the trouble to find out the details. We have the best law and order situation in the country, the best social infrastructure and the best human resources. Yet, how much inbound investment has there been into Kerala?

One of the primary reasons that States like Gujarat, AP, Maharastra, TN and WB get investments is due to their diaspora. The figures are very clear on this. It is not that Modi is the only one who conducts GIMs, it is that there is a clear and continuous interest to support from the expats.

No one expects NRKs to abandon their interests and flood the State with money. That is nonsense. But the bare minimum that can be done is to provide effective representation of Kerala abraod.

Amid the storm of "star nites" and "award functions", how many events to educate the world-wide investor community have been held? Let's ask ourselves, whether the last time someone asked us about whether to invest in Kerala, we replied with a confident "Yes" or with a tirade of how bad the Government is? If we don't market our State, who will....the Gujarathis?

Case in point. Despite getting nearly 300 Cm of rain a year, only a few areas of Trivandrum flood during torrential showers. Perhaps less than 1% of the city area, that too for a few hours at most. Most of Mumbai, Kolkata, Chennai and Patna flood annually in much smaller showers. Yet, our media raise such a hue and cry that one would think the whole city went under. Yes, the area in question includes the main transportation hubs but the situation has surely improved over the past 3 years. And I am sure that the situation will improve even more when the proposed flood control measures are completed.

We seem to have started comparing Trivandrum and Kerala with the standards set abroad. Let's not forget that this state is part of India and not an extension of the US of A or the Emirates. We should be rooted in developing world reality and not in developed world utopia when we comment about the progress that we see. As I always say, leaping forward for step changes usually lands us on our faces.

No offence meant to anyone, but I am sure all of us agree that it is easy to sit back and criticise, but it is tough to go out and make a change. Tough but very rewarding.

World class is not a bad word in city development.It is always advisable to have standards set up for development on international basis.And the city certainly deserves the best.Otherwise why should we have aairport of international standards designed by an international architect group.Or an international transhipment port with international participation.Or a Software park of international standards.Or for that matter a railway station of international standards.Is the standards for local requirement different from a requirement for international use.If the above mentioned projects are a requirement, then the citizenery of Trivandrum certainly can ask for civic amenities of world standards.There cannot be double standards for development.We have the right to ask for the best which has sadly been denied to us.

[AAJACOB]

Originally Posted by sudheeshnairs

. how many of you know that the percapita GDP of Kerala is higher than TN OR Karnataka And this doesnot include remittances from abroad.

This sounds funny . What do you mean to say ?? Is it the GDP or the per capita that you are referring to .If it's GDP then you are wrong

2005 report

Rank State/Union Territory GSDP
(Rs. Millions)
1 Maharashtra - 4,324,130
2 Uttar Pradesh - 2,737,850
3 Andhra Pradesh - 2,691,730
4 Tamil Nadu - 2,462,660
5 West Bengal - 2,360,440
6 Gujarat - 2,166,510
7 Karnataka - 1,750,930
8 Kerala - 1,327,390

[sudheeshnairs]

Man, you read first clearly..the word 'percapita' is there..

And only a fool will compare on basis of 'Gross Domestic Product' of a tiny state like Kerala with other states which are much bigger.

[sunilananda]

Case in point. Despite getting nearly 300 Cm of rain a year, only a few areas of Trivandrum flood during torrential showers. Perhaps less than 1% of the city area, that too for a few hours at most. Most of Mumbai, Kolkata, Chennai and Patna flood annually in much smaller showers. Yet, our media raise such a hue and cry that one would think the whole city went under. Yes, the area in question includes the main transportation hubs but the situation has surely improved over the past 3 years. And I am sure that the situation will improve even more when the proposed flood control measures are completed

.




Please do not deny the inhabitants of the area the right to live without the fear of floods.Though we ,are presently based abroad, we are in touch with the realities of the happenings back home through the electronic media.We have seen the sufferings of the residents and commuters in the area during the last rainy season.There was no perciptable change in the condition even after all the investments have been made during the past few years.There is no use blaming the media for highlighting the situation because they are only reporting the facts which are not palatable to the establishment. The residents and users of these area are not lesser souls.Their voices of distress needs to be heard.

[AAJACOB]

Originally Posted by sudheeshnairs

Man, you read first clearly..the word 'percapita' is there..

And only a fool will compare on basis of 'Gross Domestic Product' of a tiny state like Kerala with other states which are much bigger.

Then better delete that GDP and plz let that "per capita" stay alone ....it's percapita income.......if thats the fact think how a state with less GDP can have a higher Percapita . It's definitely not the domestic product but non-resident money that makes surplus.

[sudheeshnairs]

Even if you have lower Gross Domestic Product (due to lower resources available) when compared with bigger states, you can have higher per capita income. Those states having higher GDP, are having a much higher population to feed, so their Per capita income will be low.

For example, it is simple as 10 people and Rs. 100 versus 30 people and Rs. 200.

And for your information, NRI money is not accounted for calculation of domestic product by the Govt. Please go through the pages of 'Indian Economy Thread'. Somewhere Sun had posted the abstract numbers.

Finally there is a term called 'Per Capita GDP'.

Originally Posted by AAJACOB

how a state with less GDP can have a higher Percapita . It's definitely not the domestic product but non-resident money that makes surplus.

[sudheeshnairs]

A related news item

Originally Posted by Suncity

Manufacturing jobs added from 1998-2005 in major states:

TOI from economic censuses

[AKS Nair]

Let me add on what Ajay said. Inherently, Malayalis have the habit of finding fault or criticizing what ever they come across- especialy at home. But at the same time they harbour an illogical respect on what others do.

Please remember that USA, despite its so called technical supremacy struggled to publish the results of their elections - the previous time- due to what they simply called "technical snag". But with all the so called inherent shortcomings, we conduct and publish the results hassle free. That is definitely contributed to the high standards of the human element here. Further, when there was an infamous power break down in the US, they took almost a week to locate the fault and rectify it. Still NRIs and NRKs rever them as if they are on the top of the technical mount.

What you find here at Home is a great force. Few realise it. If we try a simulation of the fundamental equation of force = Ma, ie mass x acceleration, , we can say what others possess is some advancement in the the acceleration part, where as in our case the mass is so huge and assured that even a small advancement in acceleration will put us in par with the other developed economies, especially in education and living standards.
So what is in store is definitely encouraging - a sequential increase in the acceleration part - in the yeas to come.

Please be reminded that the so called negative trends like trade unionism etc are all corrective steps, like criticism, so that we won't be facing any sudden collapse of the fragile systems and economies which we witness across the world. May be the so called breaks put on the Indian Government was instrumental in avoiding huge falls.

Be confident on our system, our people, their power to criticize, correct and realize, which may all be blessings in disguise. After all it is mere stupidity to contemplate that things will go northward always. There will always be corrections for the good !!!

[Ajaypp]

Thanks, AKS and Sudheesh for adding your perspectives to what I said.

Originally Posted by AAJACOB

Can anybody ignore the fact that CIAL , the first private airport in India is made with NRI funds

I am sick and tired of hearing this myth propagated all over the place. Just to put the record straight, 26% of CIAL is owned by the Govt. of Kerala which is the largest shareholder. Another 26% is owned by HUDCO. Air India holds 10%, while Federal Bank and State Bank of Travancore hold large stakes. Most of the remainder is held by just 4 persons - all Gulf-based businessmen. Only a very minor stake is held by the general public. At best, CIAL is a PPP type project, it is definitely not private - not when the majority stake is held by the Govt. or by PSUs. Indeed, it is officially called a "joint-sector" project.(Link)

As for the whole discussion, let me state once more that I have no grudges against our expats, I just wish that they took as much interest in Kerala as you gentlemen.

And yes, New Orleans got dunked by Katrina and Mumbai gets dunked annually, I doubt whether those events are shining examples of efficiency. I am all for flood control, just that I believe it is not an overnight solution.

[vinod/kakka]

I guess the problem that people have with Thampanoor flooding is that it should not be that difficult to fix, money and focus is there on the problem, but still doesnt get fixed. And if not a overnight, dont we atleast deserve an overdecade solution? Its not as if money is not being spend on it ..

On the CIAL thingy: If it were so much of a Norka success ( I am a NORK myself), why did the GoI have to budget money for CIAL s Golf course? (I do not have a link handy, but P.I. B. had a release on it).

And about Norks in general, I cannot find any logic why the GoK "invited" 4 specific "NoRKs" to be share holders of InKeL. Not against it, but if anyone could enlighten me on the logic of the selection, that would be great..

[Thadiyan]

Hello All,

My that has been a lively discussion.
I remember when I used to have a m/bike I used to dread Thampanoor on account of it's flash floods. There was a [Pattor - Pallimukku] stretch of road which was first started to widen whilst I was still in school. And while in school and later in my university [college] years I had to run after KSRTC buses to reach my classes in time.
Now decades later, each time I visit home on holiday after reading all the stories from media about the TRDP/CRDP or the inumerable International [be it airports, harbours,convention centres etc, etc, this list can go on] it is hearbreaking to realise that things are almost still the same with only cosmetic improvements here and there. The city has literally grown vertically, haphazard widening of roads, geometric progression in the number of vehicles, and fatalities of road accidents ever increasing daily. These fatalities are a national loss, especially the loss of young lives who could have contributed a lot to the country with their productive lives.
I agree I am now used to the comfort zone of living abroad, and am an armchair critic, but only after moving overseas have I realised of the way things can be just with a little planning some provisions for future growth.
To think the only "world class roads" still in Tvm is stil the Museum - V/ayambalm stretch thanks to the foresight of a benevolent monarchy. And to date planners can only think of uprooting the greenery rather than proper routing or alternatives to accomodate traffic.
Basic needs lime, health, transport, housing and hygiene are not the privilege of the wealthy but should be available to any citizen. Sadly one has to live or work overseas to realise how better things can be.
I think this is what prompts us to comment on these - as when we see the progress of countries abroad and realise that the same standards can be acheived back home - " IF ONLY "
So please bear with us folks and let us have a moan,,,,,,,,

Cheers

[BabuCS]

Dear Ajay, I very well know that you do not have any bad feelings towards expatriates ... I was just trying to convey the message that expatriates are equally interested in the overall development of the state, be it in tourism or in investment. I never encountered a NRI/K malayali who propagates bad things about our home state .. but, among ourselves, it is a different story. We are proud of the values inherent in our democracy.