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Old June 30th, 2008, 11:47 AM   #41
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Old June 30th, 2008, 02:38 PM   #42
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I think it depends how one views it - did any of the stadia in this thread, especially those that are deemed to have character by the majority, have character when they were first built? At the time when they were originally built, they would have looked little different than any other ground at the time. If at some arbitrary point in the future, it is decided that current stadium design is no longer 'safe', the way terracing was deemed, then I'd say that stadia like the Walkers Stadium would suddenly find character again as parts of the stadium were changed over time.

Ultimately, the character that we talk about, especially in the UK and Ireland is something that is a product of time and time alone. When many stadia in these countries were first built, they followed two general rules - either an oval of terracing (Old Trafford, Wembley, Hampden, Ibrox, Celtic Park, Windsor Park, Stamford Bridge, or various terraces and probably one stand crammed in amongst housing or on sites not suited to sports played on rectangular fields (Lansdowne Road, The Den) or perhaps a combination of the two (St. James Park, Anfield). Very few of these stadia, at the time, would have been considered to have 'character' - perhaps with the exception of Wembley, they were all built in the easiest and most cost effective way possible - I'd also wager, although I cannot say with certainty, that they were built with the most cost effective materials available.

Personally, I'd say that no new build stadium can be built with character - I've been quite vociferous about this in the New Anfield thread. I find that stadium a poor imitation of one that has character that is totally devoid of the tradition of newly built stadia in England. Perhaps more worryingly, I can only assume that New Anfield is a product of the fact that the club's owners feel that the club can afford it. That final condition is simply not an option for clubs like Leicester City or Southampton, to whom the most economical design and materials are optimal.

I guess this is a very pleonastic way of agreeing with you, but I dislike the ethic behind the post (and I mean that non-specifically - the comment, and it comes from many, annoys me rather than your question itself) - but I don't feel this is the product of the design of stadia like The Walkers Stadium or a problem that only exists currently - in their respective times, there was little difference between many newly built stadia - those that stand out are the ones that have evolved over many years.

Most stadia we consider to have character have changed over time, as safety concerns and how clubs maximise revenues have changed, with stands built over a number of years and even decades and that follow the the previous rules of a club's capacity demands and most economical design. If these demands and concerns change as drastically as they have in the last 50 years or so then I'd say we'll see similar transformations of stadia like The Walkers or St. Marys.
It's a very good point, personally I believe character to be involved in the entire matchday experience, of which the stadium is key. For instance at my club, Gillingham F.C., our ground was built originally on what was the edge of town, but extensive migration of people out of London to Medway led to the expansion of terraced houses surrounding our ground, til eventually it was tucked away. It had one main stand, and three sides of terracing. It's location was not too far from a number of pubs, in terms of parking it's pretty much pointless. We had to park about a mile away and walk in, which meant we all walked together in the direction of the floodlights, only a couple of thousands Gills fans i'll have you, but still there was something about it.

The ground itself has been extensively rebuilt in the last couple of years, with three new seated stands, and traditionalists have lambasted it's lack of character, however as the stands were built when i was relatively young, i've begun to question that character is more of how willing people are to accept it, for I did, and still do love Priestfield stadium.

Which brings me onto the topic of new stadiums, it seems that as you said, when grounds we being built for the first time, they followed a set pattern (a pattern you can still see at sound grounds, like Barnet's Underhill and the Old Belle Vue of Doncaster) that was one main stand, and terracing everywhere else. Old Trafford was the same. These stadiums most likely were built in what was probably free space of the time, aka edge of town arenas in todays knowledge.

I guess what i'm trying to say is, despite not agreeing with the tendancy now to make Identikit bowls, it seems to just be a natural progression of stadium development, and character is a matter of acceptance that develops over time.

Saying that however, i believe there are a few key aspects of grounds that can influence the development of this atmosphere. I've always said this, you need one main stand as a focal point, two tiered. It's where the players come out from, the Chairmen and big wigs sit. Then you need a single tiered "kop" at one end of the ground for the most vocal areas of the home support. The opposing end could be given completely to the away fans or just partially but this should also be a single tier. The remaining stand is basically filler, and isn't going to be a centre for the vocal lot...at priestfield its the gordon road, and it's full of old people, so a single tiered stand all the way along would be alright.

Thats basically my dream ground, and it may shock you to realise, but i've just described Priestfield, home of the Mighty Gills lol. Apologies for the essay! Congratulations to those who actually read it!!
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Old June 30th, 2008, 03:00 PM   #43
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Cant wait for the new season up at Edgeley Park what with Leicester and Dirty Leeds about its gonna be exiting stuff, theres some great stadia in League 1 this term and im exited as county normally do well in the big arenas ( wembley ). for a ground with a cap of less than 10k the noise we can gererated from the cheadle end ( the big stand ) is absolutley awesome so the singing and banter when the big boys visit this year will be world class (!!!)
I take it you'll be chanting the unique "We all hate Leeds scum" next season, even though theres no history between the clubs but just seem to want to join in with the rest of the tin pot clubs who'll have there biggest crowd ever for a league game.

Thought so, i'll probably be a Edgeley Park depending if I can get a ticket.
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Old June 30th, 2008, 04:42 PM   #44
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I take it you'll be chanting the unique "We all hate Leeds scum" next season, even though theres no history between the clubs but just seem to want to join in with the rest of the tin pot clubs who'll have there biggest crowd ever for a league game.

Thought so, i'll probably be a Edgeley Park depending if I can get a ticket.

Not at all arrogant are we?

I've met a couple of Leeds fans in person and the majority are pretty decent people, aware of the fact they're in League 1 for a reason. Unfortunately it seems a large percentage who make their way onto internet message boards etc seem to want to portray Leeds fans are arrogant, holier than thou fans.

Oh and before you say, Leed's didn't relegate us the last game of the season, as even if we had won we we were already relegated because of Cheltenham beat Doncaster. So stick that "Poetic Justice" up your arris!
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Old June 30th, 2008, 10:43 PM   #45
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Not at all arrogant are we?

I've met a couple of Leeds fans in person and the majority are pretty decent people, aware of the fact they're in League 1 for a reason. Unfortunately it seems a large percentage who make their way onto internet message boards etc seem to want to portray Leeds fans are arrogant, holier than thou fans.

Oh and before you say, Leed's didn't relegate us the last game of the season, as even if we had won we we were already relegated because of Cheltenham beat Doncaster. So stick that "Poetic Justice" up your arris!
praise be brother, up the Gills!!!!( thats a one off for you matthemod ) were in league one for our holidays from league 2, dirty leeds are there for trusting a power hungry slimeball with a hole in his pocket with their cash..simple

In responce to the earlier comment, I wont be singing tin pot anti Yorkshire rhymes...I'll leave that to my kids....well prehaps an odd reference to those wooly hill dwellers of the pennines !!!!!

Anyway back on subject ...matthemod I completley agree with your idea for a stadium concept absolutley brilliant..would there be room at the back of each stand for clapped out programme stalls and 'owd wooden pie n' Bovril shacks lol
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Old June 30th, 2008, 11:44 PM   #46
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Ha that'd be nice! In all truthness though, thats an example of what i mean by the character and atmosphere of a ground. It's the little things that all add up to the feeling you get from a place. I've been to a good number of these league 1 grounds over the last couple of seasons, and even though a lot of them were utter rubbish in contrast to modern new grounds, it's nice to experience some of their little foibles, like Luton's leg crippling away stand accessed via somebody's back garden lol.

So yeah bring on the Bovril!
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Old July 1st, 2008, 12:46 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matthemod View Post
Not at all arrogant are we?

I've met a couple of Leeds fans in person and the majority are pretty decent people, aware of the fact they're in League 1 for a reason. Unfortunately it seems a large percentage who make their way onto internet message boards etc seem to want to portray Leeds fans are arrogant, holier than thou fans.

Oh and before you say, Leed's didn't relegate us the last game of the season, as even if we had won we we were already relegated because of Cheltenham beat Doncaster. So stick that "Poetic Justice" up your arris!
I'm not really being arrogant, I know Leeds are now shit. but our support has been fantastic. I don't really mind if we didn't technically relegate you, nor would I be that sad to even brag about it, I mean since when have Leeds or Gillingham had any sort of rivalry? They haven't same goes with Stockport.

No arrogance at all, just funny sometimes how 99% of the teams in the championship and league 1 sing songs like

"We all hate Leeds scum" and the funniest is "You're not famous anymore"

For example, the year we got relegated from the championship, Hull had this obsession with Leeds. 'Surprisingly' they sang "You're not famous anymore" just as they were singing it "Tonights attendence is (Whatever is was), the biggest 'EVER' crowd seen at the KC Stadium"

But now it seems a must for these random teams to which come have never played Leeds before to sing these songs and act like they've been Leeds most bitter rivals for decades. No doubt the promoted teams will be like the Cod heads and sing the same songs, yet still have their highest ever attendences.

Anyway, I hope you enjoy the upcoming season, and I hope to god that we get promoted, last season was fantastic and I thoroughly enjoyed it, from having a -15 point deduction to the play off final in one season is pretty good. Shame we had a bad patch, otherwise we could of gone up automatically. But anyway i'm looking forward to visiting a few more stadiums I haven't visited before. Then again i'll probably miss most if I get in the army.
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Old July 1st, 2008, 12:52 AM   #48
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You Leeds boys may as well have a rivalry with Gillingham/Stockport.

Man United fans only remember you as one of our feeder clubs. You're not even rivals for our reserves anymore.
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Old July 1st, 2008, 12:52 AM   #49
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You Leeds boys may as well have a rivalry with Gillingham/Stockport.

Man United fans only remember you as one of our feeder clubs. You're not even rivals for our reserves anymore.
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Old July 1st, 2008, 01:23 AM   #50
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You Leeds boys may as well have a rivalry with Gillingham/Stockport.

Man United fans only remember you as one of our feeder clubs. You're not even rivals for our reserves anymore.
oh dear HOI your for it now pal the reds have turned up!!!!!!

the only rivalry county/leeds have is the lanc/yorkie divide..always worth shouting about ...but i'll not go near the 20/20 if you wont haha
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Old July 2nd, 2008, 04:30 PM   #51
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You Leeds boys may as well have a rivalry with Gillingham/Stockport.

Man United fans only remember you as one of our feeder clubs. You're not even rivals for our reserves anymore.

Thats why you still sing about us. Then again you're probably from Essex and has never actually been to Old Trafford before.

And why would we have a rivalry with Stockport or Gillingham, seeing as there is no history between Leeds and the two stated clubs, oh but you wouldn't know that would you, because you're a complete plastic ****. Obviously Leeds' rivalries with Man Utd have died down seeing as we aren't in the same league, but then again we weren't in the same league for parts in the 80's but the rivalry was still there.

Oh and feeder club? Hardly.
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Old April 9th, 2009, 01:41 PM   #52
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pls, when was renovated Yeovil Town F.C. stadium (Huish Park)??? thx for answer...
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