The City Of Liverpool Cruise Liner Terminal

[yoshef]

Originally Posted by Evertonian

He's making an assumption based on how he thinks Peel would operate, assuming that Manchester would get something quicker than us.

That's fine and he's entitled to his suspicions, but he can't proove that that would be the case, since Manchester has got nothing to do with Cruise Liner terminals.

Liverpool can't operate turnarounds because it hasn't got it's arse into gear and paid back the money it needs to.

It has surpluses. Get it done. Stop moaning about other cities and what they do.

Peel don't see a prospective cruise liner terminal as anything other than a land development opportunity, that is what they are about. They have significant landholdings in both Liverpool and Manchester, but as yet they have only developed land in Manchester. It is a very pertinent point, whether you agree with it or not.

[Joe the red]

Originally Posted by Evertonian

Quick check of the daily post website says LCC has cash reserves of 88million.

Well that's a bit of a come down from tens of billions that you cited last week.

Also LCC has to make savings of £140+ million to essential services over the next three years. So it's not quite as straightforward as you would like to paint it.

[Evertonian]

Originally Posted by Joe the red

Well that's a bit of a come down from tens of billions that you cited last week.

It is yeah. I got the figure very wrong.

Also LCC has to make savings of £140+ million to essential services over the next three years. So it's not quite as straightforward as you would like to paint it.

Didn't say it was. In order to reduce deficits though sometimes you have to invest. £9 million would be a relatively small investment, for a very big payoff. I think we were all agreed on that until I piped up with an opinion. The additional income the city would get from having such fascilities and expanding on them would increase tax revenue.

Might change my username to Liverpudlian and see if I have any better luck with you pedants.

[Evertonian]

Originally Posted by yoshef

Peel don't see a prospective cruise liner terminal as anything other than a land development opportunity, that is what they are about. They have significant landholdings in both Liverpool and Manchester, but as yet they have only developed land in Manchester. It is a very pertinent point, whether you agree with it or not.

I'm not their biggest fan and I suspect they have a land grab strategy too.

However it took years for them to get their Manchester developments off the ground. In Merseyside they are proposing the two largest schemes in the country (I believe the recent WW application dwarfed the Olympic site and was the largest masterplan approved since Canary Wharf), so that will take years too.

Give them a chance.

As far as favouritsm: They are businessmen who aren't interested in where the green stuff comes from, Liverpool or Manc. They have plowed a lot of time money and effort into L&WW already. All they are interested in is profit, like any other businessmen.

[golden66]

Referriing to post 711 who says "manc is undeniably the capital of the north".
This is shockingly subservient to our ruling classes.
A capital city in nearly all cases is the seat of government of the nation decided by the ruling classes of that nation. So in our nation the ruling classes decided L'don would be the nation's capital city for thier own convenience. It is not our capital city but theirs!
L'don has no relevance to me so it is certainly not my capital city.
L'pool is my capital city because it means most to me. I was born there;live and work here.

Manc can only be a capital city/place only to people who feel that that place has the strongest relevance to themselves.i.e. either born,work or live there.

People in this nation need to consider what place is most important in their own lives and accept that that is their capital place.
The ruling elites agenda is only for themselves ,it's not for your benefit!

[Tom Hughes]

Originally Posted by Evertonian

He's making an assumption based on how he thinks Peel would operate, assuming that Manchester would get something quicker than us.

That's fine and he's entitled to his suspicions, but he can't proove that that would be the case, since Manchester has got nothing to do with Cruise Liner terminals.

Liverpool can't operate turnarounds because it hasn't got it's arse into gear and paid back the money it needs to.

It has surpluses. Get it done. Stop moaning about other cities and what they do.

I think you made the assumption that I was Manchester obsessed.... I simply observed that ALL of Peels largest developments to be completed to date are in Manchester/Salford. They have created more on Salford's (comparatively tiny) port than they have on one of the largest Port estates in the world.... that's not an obsessive assumption, just a fact!

As far as not being parochial or needing to be mindfull of other great ports.... I can also assure you as a merchant seaman I have visited most of the world's great ports and more than my fare share of cruise liner berths, and have seen what can and has been done with them..... other than a simple comparison of Peel's activities I have no interest in Manchester.

[Evertonian]

Originally Posted by Tom Hughes

I think you made the assumption that I was Manchester obsessed.... I simply observed that ALL of Peels largest developments to be completed to date are in Manchester/Salford. They have created more on Salford's (comparatively tiny) port than they have on one of the largest Port estates in the world.... that's not an obsessive assumption, just a fact!

As far as not being parochial or needing to be mindfull of other great ports.... I can also assure you as a merchant seaman I have visited most of the world's great ports and more than my fare share of cruise liner berths, and have seen what can and has been done with them..... other than a simple comparison of Peel's activities I have no interest in Manchester.

How can a fair comparrison be made though when they've only just got planning permission for ONE of their projects?

They can't build shit until the councils agree. So it's a bit unfair, at the moment, to compare like for like. Your allegation/suspicion/"feeling" is completely unsubstantiated.

No offence was intended Tom, I respect your contributions to this forum. I just find it incredible that Manchester can be brought up in a thread about cruise liners.

[Tom Hughes]

Originally Posted by Evertonian

How can a fair comparrison be made though when they've only just got planning permission for ONE of their projects?

They can't build shit until the councils agree. So it's a bit unfair, at the moment, to compare like for like. Your allegation/suspicion/"feeling" is completely unsubstantiated.

No offence was intended Tom, I respect your contributions to this forum. I just find it incredible that Manchester can be brought up in a thread about cruise liners.

The cruise terminal should be prioritised, and needn't require anything like the same planning consent as the other major projects. This stuff should be this city's bread and butter..... a simple formality.

I'm not sure how it is incredible at all, considering it is a Manchester based company, which appears so far to have only managed to build anything in its hometown. Which hardly needs substantiating....

[guenuk]

Originally Posted by yoshef

Peel don't see a prospective cruise liner terminal as anything other than a land development opportunity, that is what they are about. They have significant landholdings in both Liverpool and Manchester, but as yet they have only developed land in Manchester. It is a very pertinent point, whether you agree with it or not.

and untill they actually get on with building anything of note in Liverpool and the surrounding area then they should be seen with suspicion and scepticism. Believe it when I see it.

[guenuk]

Originally Posted by Evertonian

How can a fair comparrison be made though when they've only just got planning permission for ONE of their projects?

They can't build shit until the councils agree. So it's a bit unfair, at the moment, to compare like for like. Your allegation/suspicion/"feeling" is completely unsubstantiated.

No offence was intended Tom, I respect your contributions to this forum. I just find it incredible that Manchester can be brought up in a thread about cruise liners.

Lets compare Grosvenor with Peel then, one works with the council, puts the money on the table and gets a major project off the ground and built within a few years, the other gives a 50 year date on the project which might as well be never and threatens to flounce off taking business to the Wirral instead, playing the Wirral and Liverpool off against each other, bullying tactics and needlessly confrontational with no track record of building anything of note in Liverpool.


As far as Peel are concerned I agree with Tom Hughes.

[Evertonian]

....and again they have only just been given planning permission.

You want them to start building before aving received this or something?

Have some patience.

[Evertonian]

They don't have the permission to build ANYTHING in Liverpool yet. So how any favouritsm can be guaged just yet I don't know.

[buggedboy]

Also, Grosvenor built Liverpool One during the craziest and never to be repeated era of credit being available, for a project that is less than 20% of the size. Liverpool One hasn't finished yet (site 21/22 still to go) and it was first announced back in 1999, so I think the timescales aren't actually that disproportionate.

[Babaloo]

I never felt that L1 was pie in the sky whereas Liverpool (and Wirral) Waters clearly is - there isn't any economic demand for such development no matter how much it's talked up.

The chances of something occurring along the Northshore would, of course, be massively increased if, say, the state gifted us with the equivalent of the Lowry Centre, the War Museum, and several hundred million pounds worth of investment courtesy of the state broadcaster setting up shop. Peel could hardly fail to deliver something with a leg-up of half a billion quid - gratis. You never know it might even get round to building a cruise terminal - something it has thus far failed to do even though the economic case is obvious (and in the meantime Thompson and Saga have dumped us as a potential starting point for their cruises resulting in the loss of tens of millions of pounds to the local economy).

Maybe Peel is in talks with the UN, the World Bank, UNESCO or an equivalent body of the kind that would be needed to kickstart development along Northshore

[Evertonian]

I don't like the idea of the state propping up of Liverpool.

I'm happy that Liverpool's recent rennaisance was largely private money funded and I would prefer it if Liverpool and the Wirral attracted private capital for L&WWs from overseas.

I'm not in the slightest bit envious of Manchester being "gifted" the BBC, an organisation that will be slowly be undermined and stripped back over the next 20 years and will probably become totally irrelevant in the next generation of TV's, when they bcome more like computers running apps and streaming STB's. British TV is on it's arse with an ever increasing amount of content from overseas and when the likes of Simon Cowell will be able to sidestep ITV and put an X-Factor app directly on your TV's home screen, traditional broadcasters will be a thing of the past.

As for any bias, Peel have spent years and millions of pounds on these 'waters' schemes already. Let's withold such accusations for a few years at least and see what happens before automatically coming out with the usual "if it were Manchester!" stuff.

I personally couldn't care less what Manchester, Birmingham or London do. I don't even see Livepool as being part of the UK at times. I'm more interested in what we can do for ourselves, looking outwards for investment, as others have correctly said.

A good first step would be releasing the 9 million as an investment to get this trade running ASAP, then ruthlessly and with real aggression, steal as much of the south's cruise liner industry as possible, utilising both sides of the river as berths for multiple liners to pull up at. they want us to abide by competition law. Fine, we'll become competitive and fuck you over big time due to our waterfront and proximity to Liverpool, Cheshire and yes....Manchester.

I can't see what the wait has been for, UNLESS they are just making sure that politically at a national level, no-one can step in and fuck us over. Perhaps they are boxing clever and waiting for approval from government and/or hoping to see favourable terms on paying back the Euro money.




Everything i've written above is positive, NOT self pitying or envious of others and hopefull for a future Liverpool more connected to the rest of the world and self-sufficient instead of dependant on state apparatus for jobs and investment/infastructure.

Let's see how the usual suspects spin this.

[bluesnapper]

Originally Posted by Evertonian

I personally couldn't care less what Manchester, Birmingham or London do. I don't even see Livepool as being part of the UK at times.

Neither does our Government most of the time.

About 8 years ago I asked in a letter to a Government department 'why isnt Liverpool mentioned in the options listed (Manchester, Leeds and Newcastle) in a White Paper'.

Answer sent back was 'its because Liverpool does not have permanent Government offices'.

You only have to look at the proposals for the High Speed Rail link to see nothing has changed.

[guenuk]

A good first step would be releasing the 9 million as an investment to get this trade running ASAP

who would be releasing the cash?

[Evertonian]

Originally Posted by guenuk

A good first step would be releasing the 9 million as an investment to get this trade running ASAP

who would be releasing the cash?

Liverpool City Council out of it's large reserves.

[Evertonian]

Originally Posted by bluesnapper

Neither does our Government most of the time.

About 8 years ago I asked in a letter to a Government department 'why isnt Liverpool mentioned in the options listed (Manchester, Leeds and Newcastle) in a White Paper'.

Answer sent back was 'its because Liverpool does not have permanent Government offices'.

You only have to look at the proposals for the High Speed Rail link to see nothing has changed.

Fuck them then, they are not going to do anything for us.

What's better: Whinging on about it and getting nowhere, or pressing on with our own plans/looking further affield?

The latter, to me, is more positive.

[Gutterfighter]

Peel has some pretty sizeable strategic assets outside of the NW. They have developed these so assuming they can make a profit on LWWW then why will they not progress these schemes?