The City Of Liverpool Cruise Liner Terminal

[Cast Iron Shaw]

Originally Posted by EuxTex

Definitely a wrong statement. There are quite literally thousands of Romanians (and many more other east Europeans) aboard cruise ships. Most are waiters, bedroom attendants, bar waiters/waitresses. Most are well educated with a great command of the English language.

The major UK cruise line is P&O. They almost exclusively use Indian and Goanese nationals as service staff.
Fred Olsen and Saga, the other two main UK brands primarily use other Asian nationals.
RCCL and Celebrity, on their ex UK cruises tend to be far more extensive on their choice of nationals and i have come across the occasional East European
Be interested to know which Lines, in your experience employ 'thousands' of Romanians?

[Awayo]

Idiot vs. idiot. Btw, Goa has been in India for some time.

[Martin S]

Originally Posted by Cast Iron Shaw

Martin
I cautiously agree with you.
However a lot of people on here have accused me of negativity.
There are reasons for this, one of them is the fact that as I travel extensively, I am continually battered by the criticism of Liverpool not being able to stand on its own two feet, reliant on grants etc etc.
Unfortunately, in SOME (often high profile) cases this is true. However these occasions then deflect from the genuine progress being made in the majority of investment schemes in the area.
Yesterday I saw a precise of a confidential report on the Boat Show fiasco.
I have to say I didnt realise quite how much public money had been pumped into this failed event, which included a six figure sum from LCC itself just weeks before the organisers pulled the plug
The organisers claimed the event was undermined by important exhibitors pulling out as a consequence of a 'disastrous' London Boat Show but the five largest yacht builders in the country were all keen to progress.
It is interesting also to note that a recent commercial boat show in the UK posted record figures so you may wonder how much of the detail emanating from the £750k PR budget spent on promoting the Liverpool Boat Show could actually be trusted.
There is some suggestion that some of the marketing people involved in the Boat Show fiasco are involved in the cruise terminal promotion.
Lets hope their figure work is better this time round or this could further impact on Liverpool's reputation

I honestly don't know the answer to this Shaw. There are so many opinions on the competence (or lack of it) of our elected leaders and I am too far removed from these people to make any worthwhile judgement.

I have to rely on basic principles. For example, is the fact that Heathrow Airport is by far the busiest in Britain down to the fact that they have super-competent managers? If these people were to be transferred up to Durham Tees Valley, would that start sprouting runways and terminals and tens of millions more passengers? I think the answer to both questions is 'no'.

It is the old estate agent mantra 'location, location and location' and our cruise liner terminal is at the focal point of a high profile city, with a very populous hinterland and hundreds of miles from the nearest rival. So I think that Liverpool scores on all three. So, unless the people responsible are super-incompetent we should make a success of it.

[EuxTex]

Originally Posted by Cast Iron Shaw

Be interested to know which Lines, in your experience employ 'thousands' of Romanians?

RCCL, Carnival, MSC, Costa, Celebrity, HAL, Silver Sea, P&O Princess, Seabourn, Crystal, Windstar, Cunard, Azamara. I have encountered Romanians, and many other east Europeans, on ships of all the forgoing. I cannot prove my encountering Romanians, you will have to take my word for that, but I can prove that I have sailed aboard ships of all those cruise lines.

[MarineMan]

Originally Posted by pagey17

Im sick of this you lot, you vote Labour yet Cameron is brown nosing you with museums, vast ocean liners up the mersey, first class garden festival housing and Liverpool Waters & Wirral enterprise zones. No doubt he will be getting the yanks to build you a world class stadium soon! Whatever happened to working class Liverpool!!!

Idiot Cameron has been in power a year. All, that precedes him.
Liverpool has it class levels like all others. The working class? Where are they? Why others only identify Liverpool as being working class?

[Cast Iron Shaw]

Originally Posted by EuxTex

RCCL, Carnival, MSC, Costa, Celebrity, HAL, Silver Sea, P&O Princess, Seabourn, Crystal, Windstar, Cunard, Azamara. I have encountered Romanians, and many other east Europeans, on ships of all the forgoing. I cannot prove my encountering Romanians, you will have to take my word for that, but I can prove that I have sailed aboard ships of all those cruise lines.

Eux Tex
I do take your word for it.
I ask the question of you as an experienced traveller, for my own information, not to question the validity of it

btw interested in your experience of Windstar

[Cast Iron Shaw]

Originally Posted by Awayo

Idiot vs. idiot. Btw, Goa has been in India for some time.

Whilst Goa has been part of India for about 50 yrs or so, it has a Portuguese culture so the people looks upon themselves as different to the largely British influenced India

Bit like Scotland, Wales and Ireland

So the Goanese like to portray themselves as separate to India even though they have relatively recently been subsumed into the Indian nation.

I don't see that as being particularly idiotic but obviously respect your view as someone who obviously knows a lot about the subject

[Cast Iron Shaw]

Originally Posted by Awayo

Idiot vs. idiot. Btw, Goa has been in India for some time.

Whilst Goa has been part of India for about 50 yrs or so, it has a Portuguese culture so the people looks upon themselves as different to the largely British influenced India

Bit like Scotland, Wales and Ireland relative to the UK

So the Goanese like to portray themselves as separate to India even though they have relatively recently been subsumed into the Indian nation.

I don't see that as being particularly idiotic but obviously respect your view as someone who obviously knows a lot about the subject

[Cast Iron Shaw]

Originally Posted by Martin S

I honestly don't know the answer to this Shaw. There are so many opinions on the competence (or lack of it) of our elected leaders and I am too far removed from these people to make any worthwhile judgement.

I have to rely on basic principles. For example, is the fact that Heathrow Airport is by far the busiest in Britain down to the fact that they have super-competent managers? If these people were to be transferred up to Durham Tees Valley, would that start sprouting runways and terminals and tens of millions more passengers? I think the answer to both questions is 'no'.

It is the old estate agent mantra 'location, location and location' and our cruise liner terminal is at the focal point of a high profile city, with a very populous hinterland and hundreds of miles from the nearest rival. So I think that Liverpool scores on all three. So, unless the people responsible are super-incompetent we should make a success of it.

Martin
You are a reasoned poster and your argument relects this.
However the same was said of the Boat Show.
The same was said about the expected development of the current cruise terminal ie up to 50 calls in 5 yrs when there are only 16 this year.
It would be nice to see a proper commercial proposal not just fine words

[MarineMan]

Originally Posted by Cast Iron Shaw

Martin
You are a reasoned poster

Because he agrees with you and few others do.

The same was said about the expected development of the current cruise terminal ie up to 50 calls in 5 yrs when there are only 16 this year.

A world-wide depression came along. But cruises starting in the UK are up. That is what we want.

It would be nice to see the terminal doing cruise starts and screw constricted grant terms. A grant for a terminal and only ships can stop for a day? How ridiculous.

[EuxTex]

Originally Posted by Cast Iron Shaw

btw interested in your experience of Windstar

Had three good experiences and one bad one. The cruise line is/was, as you are probably aware, a carnival Cruise Line member but has since been sold on. The ships and service were the usual (catering to a NA clientèle) and the food was the same. To be honest, the experience was, with just a little deviation, normal cruise fare. Less formal of course but with the usual opportunity for the ladies to put on their finery. All in all, a typical cruise offer with the added novelty of computer generated simulated sail experience. I say simulated because most of the time when the sails were set we were still under engine power.

If you wish a true sail experience and have some knowledge of sail handling, I would suggest "Bare Boating" out of the BVI. You can go it alone or be crewed by an experienced captain and crew. The holiday is affordable if you join with a number of friends. Try a sixty footer with three or four other couples.

[Cast Iron Shaw]

Originally Posted by MarineMan

Because he agrees with you and few others do.

Actually he doesnt agree with me but at least argues in a reasonable way unlike you who appear to have a reputation for posting drivel under a number of psuedonyms

A world-wide depression came along. But cruises starting in the UK are up. That is what we want.

Explain then why Uk cruise nos and calls from almost all UK cruise ports have seen year on year growth since the 1990's (apart from Mostyn that is!!) and Liverpool has failed to meet its relatively modest Grant related target?

It would be nice to see the terminal doing cruise starts and screw constricted grant terms. A grant for a terminal and only ships can stop for a day? How ridiculous.

But that's what was signed up for as part of the Grant allocation so no wonder other competitors are calling foul

[Paul D]

Originally Posted by pagey17

Im sick of this you lot, you vote Labour yet Cameron is brown nosing you with museums, vast ocean liners up the mersey, first class garden festival housing and Liverpool Waters & Wirral enterprise zones. No doubt he will be getting the yanks to build you a world class stadium soon! Whatever happened to working class Liverpool!!!

All of this has been in the pipeline or getting built for years,when Labour was in power actually and we were run by the Lib Dems back then,you really are misinformed.What are you expecting,the working classes to rise up and say no more regeneration or something? What a bizarre notion.

[pagey17]

Labour cancelled this facility because it would be "unfair competition" for Southampton right? And plus the enterprise zones were never in the pipeline under Labour just vast government handouts.

[Paul D]

Originally Posted by pagey17

Labour cancelled this facility because it would be "unfair competition" for Southampton right? And plus the enterprise zones were never in the pipeline under Labour just vast government handouts.

Unfair competition for a port that has 65% of the market,tell me how does that work? It's all politicians playing the game of politics

Before the enterprise zones,the plans were still in place but nothing was built,now we have these enterprise zones and nothing's actually been built,tell me what have we gained?

[bluesnapper]

Originally Posted by pagey17

Labour cancelled this facility because it would be "unfair competition" for Southampton right? And plus the enterprise zones were never in the pipeline under Labour just vast government handouts.

Will that "unfair competition" reasoning be still in place when Leeds gets a HSR line passing through it?

[Awayo]

Soton is a red herring in this. The only rule being broken is that EU one that states that competing enterprises should not receive regional aid. EU money had gone into the Port of Mostyn to help them build a cruise terminal and so the money could not be used in Liverpool for the same purpose. The Sotonites are just trying it on, this really doesn't have anything to do with them. That said, while I am sure that people in Liverpool knew that at some point the facility would be upgraded into a terminal, the money was accepted under the conditions set by the EU rules, which is why some kind of negotiation about paying money back is necessary. Why we have to wait for a Tory government to be reasonable about this when the city has four Labour MPs is an interesting question.

[Cast Iron Shaw]

Originally Posted by Awayo

Soton is a red herring in this. The only rule being broken is that EU one that states that competing enterprises should not receive regional aid. EU money had gone into the Port of Mostyn to help them build a cruise terminal and so the money could not be used in Liverpool for the same purpose. The Sotonites are just trying it on, this really doesn't have anything to do with them. That said, while I am sure that people in Liverpool knew that at some point the facility would be upgraded into a terminal, the money was accepted under the conditions set by the EU rules, which is why some kind of negotiation about paying money back is necessary. Why we have to wait for a Tory government to be reasonable about this when the city has four Labour MPs is an interesting question.

Awayo
Our dear friend Marineman has been banging on about Mostyn without any detail
I am keen to learn more
As I understand it Mostyn spent money to upgrade their Ferry Terminal in 2001. They may have received some Grant Aid for this, I'm not sure.
irrespective of the ins and ourts of this, P&O transferred their Dublin to Mostyn ferry service to the Mersey in 2004 so the investment was frankly wasted.
Meanwhile a small regional travel agent, Travelscope (based in Gloucester) undertook 2 or 3 small cruises out of the Mostyn Ferry terminal. I think Travelscope may have gone bust some time after.
Since then Mostyn appear to have no interest in cruises, in fact it is not even shown as an option on their website.
Mostyn appear to be concentrating on Windfarm shipments and the Airbus frames
Mostyn did, in fact, make a general port related presentation to a Parliamentary Steering committee in April 2009 which stated in the preamble...Item 1.3.1 ...
'Development in Welsh ports of dedicated cruise terminals for turnrounds is hampered due to insufficient numbers and geographical location. Opportunities for cruise ship transit calls could develop but the economic benefit these will bring to the port and local economy will be minimal.

Further on into the body of the report Item 5.1 - 5.4 are some further interesting insights into the perceived value of turnround calls which again displayed a distinct lack of interest in competing for any cruise business.

Although I have yet to see any relevance of Mostyn in the Grant Aid bid or restrictions relating to Liverpool, I would be grateful for any guidance as I am always keen to take onboard new info

[MarineMan]

Originally Posted by Cast Iron Shaw

P&O transferred their Dublin to Mostyn ferry service to the Mersey in 2004 so the investment was frankly wasted.

I don't think P&O did. They sold the ships to I think Norfolk who run from the Mersey. P&O have always hated Liverpool. Thatcher, who also hated the city, gave their heads needless gongs. I doubt P&O will operate cruises from Liverpool.

Mostyn appear to have no interest in cruises because there is no business interest from there. They did run some though, and ferries. They know Liverpool would sweep the market. Port-of-call for small ships my be on the cards.

[Awayo]

Originally Posted by Cast Iron Shaw

Although I have yet to see any relevance of Mostyn in the Grant Aid bid or restrictions relating to Liverpool, I would be grateful for any guidance as I am always keen to take onboard new info

It is what was reported at the time the facility was planned. Any articles from then will be getting on for a decade old, and not easy to find, but you are welcome to google if you like.