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Old July 6th, 2008, 07:10 PM   #21
christos-greece
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Yes, it was one of a chain of hotels built across Canada in the "Chateau" style at the turn of the 20th century by the big railway companies to encourage people to travel across the country and to use the train. It is a grand old hotel, and I would love to stay there some day!
Looks awesome indeed
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Old July 6th, 2008, 10:19 PM   #22
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I'd love to go back to Quebec City some day. It truly is the cradle of European settlement in America. It all started here. It is from Quebec City that the conquest of the rest of America took place. These photos are testament to that.
Not really. It all started in Central America/Caribbean. Sure it was the beginning of French North America.
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Old July 7th, 2008, 12:09 AM   #23
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Average overnight stay at the Château Frontenac is around $200 to $2,000.

Anyone know if Fairmont Hotels are still Canadian owned?
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Old July 7th, 2008, 01:38 AM   #24
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On January 30, 2006, Colony Capital acquired Fairmont Hotels and Resorts of Toronto, Ontario with Kingdom Hotels International as a joint partner for $3.24 billion.
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Old July 7th, 2008, 02:21 AM   #25
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Not really. It all started in Central America/Caribbean. Sure it was the beginning of French North America.
The European conquest of North America sprouted from Quebec City, not Central America or the Caribbean. It is from Quebec City that expansionism across the entire continent occurred. New France? Quebec City was the centre of New France. New France spread west all the way to Minnesota and eventually all the way down to the Gulf of Mexico. It is the French who explored much of this continent. To say it was only French America leaves the wrong impression, because most of these lands were eventually lost to the USA. Quebec City is the cradle of European conquest of this continent. Quebec City was the beach head from which this colonization occurred. Quebec? Most of Ontario? Ohio? Indiana? Michigan? Wisconsin? Missouri? Illinois? and just follow the Mississippi all the way down. This was New France before it was anything else other than Indian land.

European colonization of Central America and Caribbean did not push northwards and evolve into conquest of the continent as you contend, but was for the most part confined to just those regions.

Last edited by isaidso; July 7th, 2008 at 02:35 AM.
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Old July 7th, 2008, 03:27 AM   #26
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The European conquest of North America sprouted from Quebec City, not Central America or the Caribbean. It is from Quebec City that expansionism across the entire continent occurred. New France? Quebec City was the centre of New France. New France spread west all the way to Minnesota and eventually all the way down to the Gulf of Mexico. It is the French who explored much of this continent. To say it was only French America leaves the wrong impression, because most of these lands were eventually lost to the USA. Quebec City is the cradle of European conquest of this continent. Quebec City was the beach head from which this colonization occurred. Quebec? Most of Ontario? Ohio? Indiana? Michigan? Wisconsin? Missouri? Illinois? and just follow the Mississippi all the way down. This was New France before it was anything else other than Indian land.

European colonization of Central America and Caribbean did not push northwards and evolve into conquest of the continent as you contend, but was for the most part confined to just those regions.
New Spain did expand north. It expanded from Mexico to present day California and it included what we call today the Southwest. I don't know, however, if it expanded that far north before, during or after New France. New France did expand from the Saint Lawrence basin (Quebec City & Montreal) down to what is today a big chunk of the Midwest (the states that you mention), down along the Mississippi, tapering down at Louisiana. It is my understanding that the English were the last ones to establish New England however I would imagine that New England began forming simultaneously with the southward expansion of New France. Otherwise you can be certain that New France would have established itself in New England. New France didn't establish itself there only because New England was already there. I think
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Old July 7th, 2008, 03:58 AM   #27
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Quebec has roots in Brittany. I liked the photo comparisons. Nothing beats a walled city on a hill. Parts of Old Montreal have that "European like" atmosphere and a handful of other NA cities do as well.
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Old July 7th, 2008, 04:15 AM   #28
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The oldest US city is in the least expected of all states...Florida.

top 10 oldest US cities.
1) St. Augustine, Florida, 1565
2) Santa Fe, New Mexico, 1609
3) Hampton, Virginia, 1610
4) Newport News, Virginia, 1610
5) Albany, New York, 1624
6) New York, New York, 1624
7) Quincy, Massachusetts, 1625
8) Salem, Massachusetts, 1626
9) Jersey City, New Jersey, 1629
10) Lynn, Massachusetts, 1629
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Old July 7th, 2008, 12:34 PM   #29
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New Spain did expand north. It expanded from Mexico to present day California and it included what we call today the Southwest. I don't know, however, if it expanded that far north before, during or after New France. New France did expand from the Saint Lawrence basin (Quebec City & Montreal) down to what is today a big chunk of the Midwest (the states that you mention), down along the Mississippi, tapering down at Louisiana. It is my understanding that the English were the last ones to establish New England however I would imagine that New England began forming simultaneously with the southward expansion of New France. Otherwise you can be certain that New France would have established itself in New England. New France didn't establish itself there only because New England was already there. I think
Yes, all of that seems accurate to me. It's quite a shock how much land New France lost. First to the British, then to the dismay of British America (Ontario and the Maritimes), eventually to the United States. The continent would have looked very different if Britain didn't sign over that territory. Not only would the United States have been locked into the eastern seaboard, but Canada would have stretched south from the Great Lakes, all the way down to the Gulf of Mexico. It's of course speculation, but that probably would have led to expansion to all of what is now the Western USA as well.

At least we managed to hold on to some Pacific coastline. We almost ended up with none at all.
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Old July 7th, 2008, 06:03 PM   #30
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In Canada we tend to think of Quebec as being the cradle of European settlement in the Americas, but this is not true. Certainly the oldest architecture in NA is further to the south, and many Spanish colonies were settled in the south, as far back as 1498 (Santo Domingo). Sao Paulo in Brazil was founded a full half century before QC. Even St John's Newfoundland claims to have been continuously settled since 1600, ( before Quebec City) . From Wikipedia, about St John's : "Oldest continuously inhabited European established settlement in Canada, oldest English established settlement in the Americas, oldest continuously inhabited European established settlement north of Mexico".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._of_foundation

We also rarely realize how old cities like New York are.. "New Amsterdam" was explored and charted in 1609 by Henry Hudson, which is for all intents and purposes the same time frame as Samuel de Champlain landing in Quebec City.
But, by any standards Quebec City is a national treasure.
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Last edited by Taller, Better; July 7th, 2008 at 07:45 PM.
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Old July 7th, 2008, 09:24 PM   #31
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By cradle, people mean from where conquest and expansion across the continent occurred. It may not be the cradle of European colonization of America (North and South), but it isn't a stretch to consider it the cradle of European colonization of North America. It is from Quebec City that most of the early colonization of present day Canada and the USA took place. Spanish colonization of North America didn't venture much farther north than Texas and California. British colonization was hemmed in along the eastern seaboard for the most part. Most of New France was eventually lost to the British, and Spanish territorries never expanded much further than those southern regions of North America.

It is from Quebec City that much of North America was first explored and colonized. The Spanish colonies aren't insignificant, but I don't take issue with Quebec City's description as the cradle of European colonization. It's fairly accurate as far as I can see. If this is wrong, the opposing argument might be insightful. What's the argument for Santo Domingo, or perhaps, one of the early English colonies like St. John's, Newfoundland or Hampton, Virginia?

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Old July 7th, 2008, 09:49 PM   #32
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But, Quebec is not the oldest city in North America, that would be Mexico City that is 683 years old.
And the first catholic church is also in Mexico.
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Old July 8th, 2008, 12:52 AM   #33
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But, Quebec is not the oldest city in North America, that would be Mexico City that is 683 years old.
And the first catholic church is also in Mexico.
683 years old? That would be the year 1325, no? Wait, you must be referring to pre-hispanic Mexico City. Above they are referring to the oldest European settlement in America.
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Old July 8th, 2008, 01:42 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
By cradle, people mean from where conquest and expansion across the continent occurred. It may not be the cradle of European colonization of America (North and South), but it isn't a stretch to consider it the cradle of European colonization of North America. It is from Quebec City that most of the early colonization of present day Canada and the USA took place. Spanish colonization of North America didn't venture much farther north than Texas and California. British colonization was hemmed in along the eastern seaboard for the most part. Most of New France was eventually lost to the British, and Spanish territorries never expanded much further than those southern regions of North America.

It is from Quebec City that much of North America was first explored and colonized. The Spanish colonies aren't insignificant, but I don't take issue with Quebec City's description as the cradle of European colonization. It's fairly accurate as far as I can see. If this is wrong, the opposing argument might be insightful. What's the argument for Santo Domingo, or perhaps, one of the early English colonies like St. John's, Newfoundland or Hampton, Virginia?
I'd say Quebec was the cradle of Canadian civilization (with kudos to St Johns as well) and I would hate for this to detract from this photothread, so I'll say that as important as the influence of the French explorers in opening up America, especially the middle of America, that in my opinion most of the American Eastern Seaboard population came directly from Europe, and that area accounted for the lion's share of population of the young country. There was some migration of population from French speaking Canada to the USA (notably the expulsion of the French from Acadia to Louisiana) , but Spanish influence in the USA runs very deep and in my opinion very significant (even Louisiana fell under the control of the Spanish at one time). English, Dutch and German immigration was also influential in early America. Anyhow, back to more pics of beautiful Quebec City!
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Old July 8th, 2008, 02:30 AM   #35
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Ok. Arguments can be made either way. I'd like to add that I think a lot of people like to learn something about the subject, not just look at the pictures. In that respect, this dialogue is complimentary, not a distraction. We all love the photos, but I've always considered both the photos and the dialogue it sparks equally relevant.
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Old July 8th, 2008, 02:32 AM   #36
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I also think it is important we learn from these threads... I was just meaning I was hoping it didn't descend into a brawl!
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Old July 8th, 2008, 07:17 PM   #37
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683 years old? That would be the year 1325, no? Wait, you must be referring to pre-hispanic Mexico City. Above they are referring to the oldest European settlement in America.
Actually 1325 was the year Mexico City was founded, by the aztecs, and 1521 was the year that it was colonized by the spaniards so Mexico City as an European city is over 480 years old.

Still what a beauty is Quebec very french, very european, so nice, you wouldnt notice that you are in america.
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Old July 8th, 2008, 07:29 PM   #38
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To my mind it is the only city I have visited in Canada or the USA that truly made me feel like I was in Europe. Other cities have colonial architecture, but Quebec City has a very special feel.
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Old July 8th, 2008, 07:55 PM   #39
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Indeed , especially in vieux Quebec with the old architectures laying along those narrow streets make you feel like stepping back in time , strange, but like already seen , very cosy though
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Old July 8th, 2008, 08:59 PM   #40
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Yes, it is the narrow, curving streets and the steeply pitched rooflines- so wonderful and picturesque. This thread has made me want to go back and visit QC again SOON!
ps the feeling is just in vieux Quebec, as skyboi mentioned. The newer part of the city is not the same.
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