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Old July 15th, 2012, 11:26 PM   #2161
Northridge
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I've been thinking about this also.

As I've noticed the whole operation when a train stops is something like this:
- Train stops.
- Driver gets out and check if everything is okay.
- Opening of doors.
- Boarding and deboarding in no order(that's how them roll in SHA).
- Doors closes.
- Driver visually checks the doors and on the CCTV screen with handgestures(like in Japan).
- Driver gets in.
- Train leaves.

What I don't understand is the delay for opening of the doors. For the closing of the doors I can understand. Stockholm has almost the same procedure for closing of the doors, but it feels quiker there.
Also it seems like they have exactly the same procedure when there are PSD's at the platform.
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Old July 15th, 2012, 11:34 PM   #2162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixboi08 View Post
OH! I didn't understand that he meant the actual opening of the doors was slow. I thought he meant there was just a delay in executing it (i.e. the operator was slow). There are some lines where the doors open extremely quickly (line 11 - often before the recording is even finished). I think it's because there are several different train-sets in use by the metro.
I didn't ride Line 11. Is the whole stopping/departing process any faster on line 11? I rode lines 1, 2, 3, 4 and 8 and they were all same in this respect. As I said before, it is also exactly the same in Guangzhou and Shenzhen on the lines that I rode (most of them in Guangzhou and line 1 in SZ).

How different trainsets make any difference to the issue I mentioned? I don't think this is the reason.
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Old July 15th, 2012, 11:38 PM   #2163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northridge View Post
I've been thinking about this also.

As I've noticed the whole operation when a train stops is something like this:
- Train stops.
- Driver gets out and check if everything is okay.
- Opening of doors.
- Boarding and deboarding in no order(that's how them roll in SHA).
- Doors closes.
- Driver visually checks the doors and on the CCTV screen with handgestures(like in Japan).
- Driver gets in.
- Train leaves.

What I don't understand is the delay for opening of the doors. For the closing of the doors I can understand. Stockholm has almost the same procedure for closing of the doors, but it feels quiker there.
Also it seems like they have exactly the same procedure when there are PSD's at the platform.
That may be understandable. All about safety. The question is WHY this is not the case with most other metro systems in other countries (including ones using similar station layout and rolling stock)? I am sure cities like Singapore know about safety and good practice better than anyone else and yet there is nothing like it there and doors open/close with no delays speeding up the train ride to the maximum.
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Old July 15th, 2012, 11:43 PM   #2164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
That may be understandable. All about safety. The question is WHY this is not the case with most other metro systems in other countries (including ones using similar station layout and rolling stock)?
Wouldn't the standard for safety rather be set by a non Chinese company?
That's the reason I'm asking. I don't think safety demands the long dwell time that we are talking about. Especially for opening of the doors. And don't forget the staff at the platform, that could do some of the job for the driver.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 12:03 AM   #2165
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So why are they doing it then? Are they stupid?
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Old July 16th, 2012, 06:39 AM   #2166
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I am just confused if you mean:
1) they are too slow to open the doors
or,
2) the doors are too slow to open

If that makes sense.
In other words, imagine the train stops, is it: 1) the conductor takes too long to open the doors or 2) once the conductor has opened them, it takes a few seconds for it to happen?

Just want to be clear...
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Old July 16th, 2012, 07:52 AM   #2167
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What i mean, and I belivie this is what Pansori alos means, is 1. It takes to long before anything happens.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 10:54 AM   #2168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northridge
What i mean, and I belivie this is what Pansori alos means, is 1. It takes to long before anything happens.
That's right.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 05:07 PM   #2169
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I can only surmise that Shanghai Metro's being very cautious because Shanghai is after all, a city that many Chinese aspire to visit, and first time visitors may be ignorant about basic commuting etiquette. Some of the country-folk are really ignorant - unruly, uncivilized. I witnessed this when a whole bunch of them rode the Beijing Subway after getting off the railway stations, and they were trying to pry open the doors of a moving train!! There are announcements, and rather frequent, but I guess, they don't really understand Mandarin too.
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Old July 17th, 2012, 12:58 AM   #2170
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Nasty accidents are nasty, and Shanghaiese like to push on the doors as soon as the train stops, I believe that's why they are waiting to open the doors, to have safety monitors yell at people to get back so they don't lean on a moving door.
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Old July 17th, 2012, 01:03 AM   #2171
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Nasty accidents are nasty, and Shanghaiese like to push on the doors as soon as the train stops, I believe that's why they are waiting to open the doors, to have safety monitors yell at people to get back so they don't lean on a moving door.
When I was on a virtually deserted Line 2, it still took ages stopping at every station. It stopped far longer than was required for people to get in and out. I got the feeling it had to wait to keep to its schedule.
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Old July 17th, 2012, 03:05 AM   #2172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddes View Post
I can only surmise that Shanghai Metro's being very cautious because Shanghai is after all, a city that many Chinese aspire to visit, and first time visitors may be ignorant about basic commuting etiquette. Some of the country-folk are really ignorant - unruly, uncivilized. I witnessed this when a whole bunch of them rode the Beijing Subway after getting off the railway stations, and they were trying to pry open the doors of a moving train!! There are announcements, and rather frequent, but I guess, they don't really understand Mandarin too.
Haha. It's almost like I can see the situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
When I was on a virtually deserted Line 2, it still took ages stopping at every station. It stopped far longer than was required for people to get in and out. I got the feeling it had to wait to keep to its schedule.
As it have been discussed before, they don't have the tightest schedule on some lines. But on some stations and where line 3 and 4 are sharing track, the schedule is pretty tight. Often the trains are coming constantly.

Edit: This is a video i shot on line 1 in Shanghai last year. It clearly shows the dwell time after the doors have closed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zibEhhv0U_o
How do I get embedded the video?

Last edited by Northridge; July 17th, 2012 at 03:15 AM.
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Old July 17th, 2012, 08:49 AM   #2173
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So why are they doing it then? Are they stupid?
My guess is it's more likely perception of safety rather than actual safety. CYA.
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Old July 17th, 2012, 08:19 PM   #2174
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It's 'elf n safety gone mad I tell ya.
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Old July 17th, 2012, 08:33 PM   #2175
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And what about automation of the metro? Has Shanghai got automatic train oporation on any of the lines? As far as I've heard Beijing is doing that (or has done already?). What about other Chinese cities?
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Old July 17th, 2012, 10:05 PM   #2176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
And what about automation of the metro? Has Shanghai got automatic train oporation on any of the lines? As far as I've heard Beijing is doing that (or has done already?). What about other Chinese cities?
IIRC most of the old lines in Shanghai do have ATO, although signalling is a bit old on lines 1 and 2 such that they can't support frequencies more intensive than every 3 minutes. Don't know about 5, but anything from 6 onwards either has been manual until recently or is still manual. 10 was going automatic a while ago but the recent accident pushed it back. Haven't checked metrofans properly so off the top of my head can't tell you whether ATO has hapened on that line yet.

EDIT: new information

Lines 7 and 9 went ATO last month;
Line 11 has been with full ATO for a while.

Line 5 will get ATO post southern extention;
Line 6 will have ATO when all new trains are in place;
Line 8 has ATO only on the old trains, the new ones are manually driven;
Line 10 actually used to be ATO until the accident, then switched to manual;

Eventually there will be automatic door opening.
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Last edited by NCT; July 17th, 2012 at 10:22 PM.
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Old July 18th, 2012, 12:24 AM   #2177
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It may just be a time thing...I know Line 10 is pretty busy and we would frequently stop inside of a tunnel (which i assumed was because we were too near the next train - since it happened very often).
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Old July 18th, 2012, 01:08 AM   #2178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCT View Post
IIRC most of the old lines in Shanghai do have ATO, although signalling is a bit old on lines 1 and 2 such that they can't support frequencies more intensive than every 3 minutes. Don't know about 5, but anything from 6 onwards either has been manual until recently or is still manual. 10 was going automatic a while ago but the recent accident pushed it back. Haven't checked metrofans properly so off the top of my head can't tell you whether ATO has hapened on that line yet.

EDIT: new information

Lines 7 and 9 went ATO last month;
Line 11 has been with full ATO for a while.

Line 5 will get ATO post southern extention;
Line 6 will have ATO when all new trains are in place;
Line 8 has ATO only on the old trains, the new ones are manually driven;
Line 10 actually used to be ATO until the accident, then switched to manual;

Eventually there will be automatic door opening.
Thanks, that's pretty interesting info.
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Old July 18th, 2012, 05:50 AM   #2179
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Shanghai tariffs for subway do make progress! now, tickets for 3 days (72 hours) available and cost 45 RMB only.


http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/night-c...m/view/536670/

17 .07. 2012.
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Old July 18th, 2012, 11:47 AM   #2180
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It'd be nice if the day and 3-day tickets could be used on buses as well.
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