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Old February 23rd, 2013, 05:12 PM   #2541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
That's in part the answer to your question. Shanghai metro should keep its distances in 1500 - 2000 meters brackets with some exceptions for sure. Since the city is really big in comparison with Paris, which you mention here, short distances between stations would be a disadvantage.

However, Shanghai has to develop a huge and maybe dense LRT system in addition to metro.

Paris metro is absolutely inconvenient for Shanghai since passengers usually travel more than 10 km.
1500-2000 in the downtown areas? I would say 1500-2000 in the inner suburbs, +2000 in far flung areas, and Downtown areas should be 1000-800 in most places.
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 11:03 PM   #2542
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
That's in part the answer to your question. Shanghai metro should keep its distances in 1500 - 2000 meters brackets with some exceptions for sure. Since the city is really big in comparison with Paris, which you mention here, short distances between stations would be a disadvantage.
8 districts of Puxi cover 289 square km, and had as of 2010 6,99 million people.

The 4 departments of Paris cover 762 square km, and had as of 2010 6,53 million people.

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However, Shanghai has to develop a huge and maybe dense LRT system in addition to metro.

Paris metro is absolutely inconvenient for Shanghai since passengers usually travel more than 10 km.
What Paris also has is RER.

The RER lines branch in suburbs - using old commuter railway lines.

In central city, they pass in huge underground tunnels.

RER line A is 108 km, with all the branches, and has 46 stations - average distance between stations is 2411 m.

The central city section of RER A is parallel to Metro Line 1. Line 1 is 16,6 km total, with 25 stations between Defense and Chateau de Vincennes - average 692 m between stations. 21 stations, between Defense and Nation, are on the parallel part - including these, Line A has 6 cathedral stations in the central city. Which means 4 times the interstation distance of Line A - more than 2,5 km.

Should Shanghai have metro lines under central city like RER, with station distances over 2500 m, and then the last mile network not as shallow metro (like Paris Metro) but as street-level network of streetcars and trolleybuses?
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Old February 25th, 2013, 03:24 AM   #2543
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Quote:
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8 districts of Puxi cover 289 square km, and had as of 2010 6,99 million people.

The 4 departments of Paris cover 762 square km, and had as of 2010 6,53 million people.
That's not a good way to compare. Administratively Paris all is just 105 sq km. And Shanghai is not just a Puxi. I'd still vote for 660 sq km for the urban area of Shanghai

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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
What Paris also has is RER.

The RER lines branch in suburbs - using old commuter railway lines.

In central city, they pass in huge underground tunnels.

RER line A is 108 km, with all the branches, and has 46 stations - average distance between stations is 2411 m.
Yes, and even in city center RER has got large distances between stations.

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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
The central city section of RER A is parallel to Metro Line 1. Line 1 is 16,6 km total, with 25 stations between Defense and Chateau de Vincennes - average 692 m between stations. 21 stations, between Defense and Nation, are on the parallel part - including these, Line A has 6 cathedral stations in the central city. Which means 4 times the interstation distance of Line A - more than 2,5 km.
Don't forget about the actual population of Shanghai which is much bigger than the official. I don't remember any time in Shanghai the metro would not be crowded. Even in the peak-off time.

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Should Shanghai have metro lines under central city like RER, with station distances over 2500 m, and then the last mile network not as shallow metro (like Paris Metro) but as street-level network of streetcars and trolleybuses?
Propbably, in the vey core, Shanghai shouldn't have distances over 2500 m but it actually doesn't.
As for trolleybuses, I don't quite think this is a good solution. The maintenance cost is relatively high with no clear advantages over buses except for being environmentally friendly. While tram is a goot choice. But once again taking into account huge numbers of passengers, it should be not a kind of streetcar but a long articulated tram, up to 50 m long.

Tram lines are cheap unlike metro lines, even shallow ones, and help cover short distances well. For short distances we don't need very long trains, so, underground way like Paris metro in Shanghai would be just a waste of money.
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Old February 25th, 2013, 04:28 AM   #2544
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2.22 Line 16 testing run completed

Line 16: 58.98km, opening in 2013 (Except Lonyang Road and Huaxia Middle Road stations)

Line 16 will interchange with line 2, line 13, Maglev and planned Line 18 at Longyang Road station and with line 11 at Luoshan Road station.

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Old February 25th, 2013, 10:47 AM   #2545
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Will that be a normal metro line or smth like line 22?
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Old February 25th, 2013, 11:08 AM   #2546
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It's normal metro line (A type train) but installed bench seats.

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Old February 25th, 2013, 01:34 PM   #2547
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What for considering high passenger flow?
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Old February 25th, 2013, 02:32 PM   #2548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
Will that be a normal metro line or smth like line 22?
Quote:
Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
It's normal metro line (A type train) but installed bench seats.
Now I'm confused...
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Old February 25th, 2013, 02:39 PM   #2549
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That means Shanghai metro overtook London Underground today to become the longest metro in the world.





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Old February 25th, 2013, 06:02 PM   #2550
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That means Shanghai metro overtook London Underground today to become the longest metro in the world.
Didn't that happen like two years ago?
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Old February 25th, 2013, 07:00 PM   #2551
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Yeah, that happened long back. Even Beijing subway is now larger than the Underground.
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Old February 25th, 2013, 10:30 PM   #2552
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Please don't feed the spambots .
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Old February 26th, 2013, 12:43 AM   #2553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
What for considering high passenger flow?
No, Line 16 is a regional metro line so passenger flow will be lower.
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Old February 26th, 2013, 04:31 AM   #2554
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yes Line 16 is a suburban line which connects the port (Lingang New City) to Longyang Rd transportation hub.

I stopped at Longyang Rd for dinner last night. The previous parking lot is now a walled construction site. Longyang Rd will be a real metro hub with completion of Line 16 (completed in 2013/2014) and planned Line 18, plus existing Line 2/7/Maglev.
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Old February 26th, 2013, 04:37 AM   #2555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixboi08 View Post
Now I'm confused...
I don't know what the "bullet subway" means in the link, but line 16 train is a metro train not CRH train. The line 16 rail uses 3rd rail power supply and the train speed will reach 120 km/h.

Here're some photos of line 16 train from metrofans.sh.cn









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Old February 26th, 2013, 04:44 AM   #2556
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The rolling stock looks like that on line 13 if we take the frontal part. Trains on line 13 seemed to me very noisy and not so smooth.

But the way if line 16 is equipped with 3rd rail power supply, it will be the first line of this kind in Shanghai.

I can also notice that doors are quite rare in this rolling stock

Will line 16 lead to currently being constructed Disneyland?
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Old February 26th, 2013, 04:46 AM   #2557
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Quote:
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No, Line 16 is a regional metro line so passenger flow will be lower.
I still think these projects should take into account possible developments in the future. So they'd better put trains with higher capacity and more frequent doors.
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Old February 26th, 2013, 06:16 AM   #2558
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Quote:
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Will line 16 lead to currently being constructed Disneyland?
Line 11 will extend to the U/C Disneyland by 2015.
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Old February 26th, 2013, 07:28 AM   #2559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
The rolling stock looks like that on line 13 if we take the frontal part. Trains on line 13 seemed to me very noisy and not so smooth.

But the way if line 16 is equipped with 3rd rail power supply, it will be the first line of this kind in Shanghai.

I can also notice that doors are quite rare in this rolling stock

Will line 16 lead to currently being constructed Disneyland?
Not really line 13, id say more like the red line on the kaohsiung metro. btw they look much wider than your average Shanghai metro train. i'm guessing the car body is 3.2m wide?
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Old February 26th, 2013, 03:13 PM   #2560
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Quote:
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I don't know what the "bullet subway" means in the link, but line 16 train is a metro train not CRH train. The line 16 rail uses 3rd rail power supply and the train speed will reach 120 km/h.


Well, yeah. That's what I figured (they always come up with these "clever" little names for things).

It's really a commuter line - as I'd figured a lot of these new lines will be. So I wasn't sure when the other poster mentioned that it'd be a regular metro train.
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