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Old August 7th, 2013, 06:38 AM   #2761
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This map is a bit outdated but shows the overall underground/elevated ratio of shanghai metro lines

Grey: underground
Orange: elevated



by shmetro
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Old August 7th, 2013, 07:29 AM   #2762
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There is a small elevated part of line 2 after Longyang road, too.

Thanks for such a picture, it is also interesting to know how many km of tracks go underground.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 05:40 PM   #2763
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No ground level track?
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Old August 7th, 2013, 05:44 PM   #2764
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Orange is elevated + ground sections though the ground part is small.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 05:54 PM   #2765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
There is a small elevated part of line 2 after Longyang road, too.
I also noticed that. And Shanghai South Statin is an underground station now.
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Old August 8th, 2013, 08:23 AM   #2766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
No ground level track?
The map doesn't reflect the difference between ground and elevated tracks. Pretty much of line 3 in the south is its ground level part. It's 3 stations I think.

Southern part of line 1, which is by the way the oldest part of Shanghai metro, is level grand, too. It's kind of 5 stations.
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Old August 10th, 2013, 07:41 AM   #2767
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Are there any figures for construction costs of new and recently built lines? I'd like to see also how much 1 km of lines costs on average.
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Old August 10th, 2013, 03:27 PM   #2768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
Seems to have a huge metro system but does it also have huge amounts of separate commuter rail like Tokyo does?
Shanghai's metro reaches into the suburbs where stations can be quite far apart. So effectively, it's a combination of heavy rail/suburban rail like San Franciso, Washington D.C., Seoul, etc.

Tokyo also has "commuter" rail lines with train frequencies similar to a metro. The stations can also be quite close together, similar to a metro. And many Tokyo commuter lines "run-through" on Tokyo Metro lines. All this begs the question: what is considered metro/subway/heavy rail and commuter/suburban rail?
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Old August 11th, 2013, 07:43 AM   #2769
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I was mainly curious to understand if what's represented as the Shanghai metro was the practical extend of such services or if like Tokyo it is only a part of a much larger network. But of course there would likely be less need for additional metro style services here since the SH metro system is larger than the two in Tokyo and Tokyo is a larger metro area if measurements are accurate.

Unlike many cities, it's really impossible to look at the Tokyo metro service without acknowledging the rail network as a whole.
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Old August 11th, 2013, 08:34 AM   #2770
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I think the difference between a metro and suburban rail is often blurred but sometimes very distinct. Shanghai's metro line 22 is a suburban rail, while line 16 may be more like a metro. I think it comes down to a few factors:

Frequency: Does the train have timetables? Metros/subway trains come and go whenever and whether you catch one is sheer luck. Suburban rail have set times during which trains arrive, with a deviation of 5 minutes to be considered 'late'.

Ticketing: Is the fare system interchangeable and consistent? If metro fare is $2.50 but suburban rail for comparable distance is $15, then there is a clear distinction. Also, how is ticketing collected? Is it a restricted access gate where you have to prove purchase (ie: swiping your card?) or is there no restriction and ticketing is done by on-board collectors?

Operation: This goes hand in hand with frequency. Are there certain trains that skips stops while others make local stops all on the same two track line? Generally suburban rail (like line 22), has "express" and "local" trains on the same two tracks. Metro express and local are often separated on four track or three track configurations.

Seating: Metro trains more often than not has bench seating and others with mixed row and bench seats. They are designed to accommodate mostly standing passengers. I find that suburban rail generally have row seats, with as many as three seats and two seats abreast, leaving barely enough room to walk in the aisle in the middle, let alone standing room. They are designed to mostly handle seated passengers.

Passenger Flow: I get the sense that metro has passengers getting on and off at different stops all along the line going in both directions. Suburban rail on the other hand, generally has much more distinctive passenger flow. Especially during commuting hours, you have masses of passengers getting on at various stops only to get off at the last stop in the city. The conductor can just collect tickets between the second to last and last stops to cover almost everyone. Likewise in the evenings, everyone gets on at the last stop and flows outward. Metro is designed to take people through various points in the city, while suburban rail takes people to and from the city to the suburbs.

Size and length: Suburban rail generally would have larger cars and trains would have varying numbers of cars depending on anticipated usage (ie: 12 cars for rush hours, 8 cars for off-peak). Metro trains, on the other hand, almost always have the same number of cars regardless of whether it is rush hour or 3 AM.

Provided this, I'd say Shanghai's only true suburban rail is Line 22. The rest are all metro, though some like Line 5 and 9 have suburban rail characteristics in terms of passenger flow.
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Old August 11th, 2013, 02:45 PM   #2771
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Not necessarily true.

Frequency: Many metro systems have exact timetables. Even the Stockholm tunnelbana has an exact timetable, as does the aforementioned Tokyo Metro/TOEI Subway.

Ticketing: Many systems have a universal ticketing system across the city - the Berlin U-bahn and S-bahn follow the same tariff system as does the Stockholm pendeltåg and tunnelbana. In Tokyo it is company specific with the two complimentary metro systems (TOEI and Tokyo Metro) having different fare schedules with TOEI being the more expensive.

Operation: NYC operates skip stop express services on the New York Subway, right? Does that mean it is commuter rail rather than a metro? Tokyo "commuter" lines often have 10tph on local services only. When one adds on express, limited express, commuter express etc, frequency can go up drastically to 20tph, but 10tph still qualifies as a metro easily.

Seating: The Stockholm tunnelbana has transverse seating, but is a metro. Tokyo commuter lines have longitudinal seating, but are commuter rail.

Passenger flow: One finds passenger flow to the nearest activity centres and therefore on a frequent system with dispersed employment nodes. This is more dependent on the city being multi-nodal or CBD-centric rather than the system itself. the Chicago El is mostly very CBD-centric with radial lines, yet it is still a metro system. Coupled with that, the Chicago El has level crossings!

I guess this is why I say it is very hard to separate the two. I honestly cannot say that most lines in Tokyo are not "metro standard". It is incredibly blurred most of the time really and highly arbitrary. Perhaps definitions of what something is, is not particularly helpful for this discussion, rather one should consider the job they do and how successful they are at it.
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Old August 11th, 2013, 03:01 PM   #2772
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkenmunkey888 View Post
Passenger Flow:
Probably not relevant for Shanghai but a real important thing. Access to trains has to be on platform-level, otherwise time for boarding and leaving a train is not acceptable for metro-service. I would like to add some words to your real complete list of things to have for metros.

- Frequence/interval for every stop should not be more than 10 minutes. Researches found out, that a 10-min. interval is still acceptable in that way,that people do not have to look at the timetable first. They can walk at the station and the average waiting time would be five minutes (in theory).

So 10-minute headways in Tokio and Shanghai are probably a joke, but here in Europe there is a huge difference between let´s say RER A in Paris and ordinary urban-rail in Hannover, called S-Bahn for marketing reasons.

Edit: Layout of Seating imho cannot answer the question if it is metro, even train length does not. As metro is considered to create inner-city transportation, regarding outer-city tansport needs I personal differ between regional-metro and urban-rail.

Kind regards

Last edited by tunnel owl; August 11th, 2013 at 03:10 PM.
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Old August 11th, 2013, 03:32 PM   #2773
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Shanghai metro 2018 by z880201

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Old August 11th, 2013, 05:02 PM   #2774
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i am wondering about the timeline for line 17, when is it going to open in 朱家角?

i had once seen some mention of maglev even in the area, probably the line to hangzhou but not sure how that is coming along, i have noticed the platforms on the threads for the hangzhou station and i know that theoretically the hangzhou extension might happen but that there is uncertainty.
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Old August 11th, 2013, 10:51 PM   #2775
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Nice to see that line 12 is not the last new line to cross the downtown.

Where is line 15?

I guess line 11 will be the longest in Shanghai?
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Old August 11th, 2013, 11:23 PM   #2776
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I thought Line 14 was to stop at Middle Huaihai Road. Perhaps it would be too close to South Huangpi Road.

So seeing that map and the 2020 map, both suggest that lines 15, 18, 19, 20 (ex 17) and 21 (ex 16) will be built between 2017 and 2020 if I'm not mistaken.
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Old August 12th, 2013, 05:17 AM   #2777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timeandspace View Post
i am wondering about the timeline for line 17, when is it going to open in 朱家角?
My guess is end of 2017 or 2018. Currently it's just finished the project bidding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
Nice to see that line 12 is not the last new line to cross the downtown.

Where is line 15?

I guess line 11 will be the longest in Shanghai?
Line 15 is in planning stage and supposed to construct next year. Yes with 70km after Disneyland section completion Line 11 will be the longest (and one of the busiest) line of Shanghai. Per original design line 16 was part of line 11 and would have made it a 120km line

Quote:
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I thought Line 14 was to stop at Middle Huaihai Road. Perhaps it would be too close to South Huangpi Road..
Line 14 is a highly anticipated line. It stops at Lujiazui and provides the second metro option of busy Lujiazui area and relieves much pressure from Line 2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CNGL View Post
So seeing that map and the 2020 map, both suggest that lines 15, 18, 19, 20 (ex 17) and 21 (ex 16) will be built between 2017 and 2020 if I'm not mistaken.
You are right. Apart from the extensions all currently U/C lines are Line 12/14/16/17.
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Old August 12th, 2013, 09:13 AM   #2778
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Still, I don't see how line 15 will run. Will it cross the city center or not?

Glad to see Lujizaui will get one more line. I've been always wondering why such dense and passenger flow-creating district was given just one station.

Hope all new lines will accommodate A-type trains with a perspective to accommodate 8-car trains.

Interesting to know anything about the rolling stock on new lines.
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Old August 12th, 2013, 10:33 AM   #2779
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Line 15 does not cross the city center. It is a suburban line running from city's Northwest to Southwest.

Planned stations are listed here
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Last edited by big-dog; August 12th, 2013 at 10:47 AM.
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Old August 13th, 2013, 09:54 AM   #2780
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Thanks, can I see this kind of information for all the lines that will be constructed? And I'm curious to see the map by 2025.
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