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Old July 5th, 2006, 10:37 PM   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crossbowman
I could never get on a train without a driver...
What if something went wrong?
Driverless metros are even safer than normal ones. Here's a page that explains the advantages and lists all driverless metro systems (currently 21): http://mic-ro.com/metro/driverless.html
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Old July 5th, 2006, 11:02 PM   #262
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its not so bad, to get on a train without driver. and i would even say, it's an adventure to see on tracks while sitting in front of the train, where in traditional trains a driver sits. it's a bit like a movie - kidnaped train is running in tunnel, just a ghost train hehe. u have to go to paris (line 14) or the brand new metro in Turin and get a ride. it's fun
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Old July 6th, 2006, 12:09 AM   #263
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(1: Copenhagen, 2: Lille)


(London DLR)

Last edited by micro; July 6th, 2006 at 12:24 AM.
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Old July 6th, 2006, 12:17 AM   #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micro


(Copenhagen)
exactly
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Old July 6th, 2006, 12:18 AM   #265
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I guess i must be the only one in here who doesn't want
to go on board driverless trains...

Give people their jobs back...enough with this domination of machines!
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Old July 6th, 2006, 12:45 AM   #266
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There's something true to it but I believe that as the world changes to the better there will be new, more interesting jobs for people than the monotonous train driving.
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Old July 6th, 2006, 01:29 AM   #267
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The majority of Metro system in France have no driver metro line.

Paris
Orlyval 1991
meteor ligne 14 1998
Roissyval will open in 2007
Line 1 will become without driver in 2009~2010

Lyon
line D 1992 ( First Heavy metro train without driver )

Lille
Val line 1 1983
Val line 2 1988

Toulouse
Val line A 1993
Val line B will open in 2008
Rennes
Val line A 2002

Only Marseille has not metro line without driver.
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Old July 6th, 2006, 01:46 AM   #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crossbowman
I guess i must be the only one in here who doesn't want
to go on board driverless trains...

Give people their jobs back...enough with this domination of machines!
Automatic trains are proven to be significantly much safer and reliable than manned trains. SkyTrain here in Vancouver has been around for 20 years exactly, and there has never ever been a crash or any major technical fault. The only deaths are the odd suicide and those who've fallen onto the tracks right in front of an incoming train (though station tracks are lined with sensors, even a 500g newspaper would set the sensors off causing all trains to stop abruptly, and there are staff at each station that will check out what's the problem).

Trains can be manually driven, if needed during an emergency, from the Control Room at the Operations & Maintenance Centre.

Not to mention, automation also means impressive realibility - trains right on schedule, very high frequency (peak of 90 secs with SkyTrain), easy scheduling, and low operation costs.

It's all very high-tech, state-of-the-art. Vancouver has the world's longest automated rail transit system. Even longer when the new automated 19-km Canada Line is completed in 2009 which would connect the city centre with the airport and suburbs.








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Old July 6th, 2006, 02:52 AM   #269
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I think driverless sytems are so much more efficient
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Old July 6th, 2006, 03:02 AM   #270
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Sure, the job of rapid transit train operator may be monotonous.

But at least in most North American transit systems, it’s a unionized job that pays quite well & offers very good job security. So there’s never any shortage of applicants.

On the other hand, the transit agencies can save a big chunk of their operating budgets by cutting out the train operators.

Really it’s as much about as much about economics as about technology.

Agree though, Vancouver’s driverless SkyTrain works very well.

You’d have a much, much higher chance of getting sidelined by one of Vancouver’s protracted transit strikes than by anything going amiss on Sky Train!
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Old July 6th, 2006, 04:09 AM   #271
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Now, all of the metros with driverless trains are completely grade separated, correct? I'd imagine in those cases having no driver would be fine. I would be a little worried if it was an at-grade LRT or Streetcar being controlled by a computer.
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Old July 6th, 2006, 04:23 AM   #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clashman
Now, all of the metros with driverless trains are completely grade separated, correct? I'd imagine in those cases having no driver would be fine. I would be a little worried if it was an at-grade LRT or Streetcar being controlled by a computer.
It's possible, but it would be very expensive and especially dangerous. An option for one large section of Vancouver's Canada Line was at-grade automation through many intersections along one of the region's most busiest artery streets. Richmond, where this section would've been built, wanted this but designers, politicians, and the public thought it was crazy and this at-grade section was killed and instead turned elevated.

If it has its own guideway or is completely grade seperated, it's good for automation.
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Old July 6th, 2006, 04:41 AM   #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bayviews
Sure, the job of rapid transit train operator may be monotonous.

But at least in most North American transit systems, it’s a unionized job that pays quite well & offers very good job security. So there’s never any shortage of applicants.

On the other hand, the transit agencies can save a big chunk of their operating budgets by cutting out the train operators.

Really it’s as much about as much about economics as about technology.

Agree though, Vancouver’s driverless SkyTrain works very well.

You’d have a much, much higher chance of getting sidelined by one of Vancouver’s protracted transit strikes than by anything going amiss on Sky Train!
In my opinion, the cost savings of eliminating drivers is especially important in North America; with our limited transit budgets, we need every last dollar in the war against automobiles.
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Old July 6th, 2006, 05:04 AM   #274
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Vancouver's automated Canada Line trains, the Rotem XG-EMU (each car is 3 metres wide, 20 metres long, 163 person capacity):



These trains are also used in Hong Kong's MTR, but obviously they aren't automated.
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Old July 6th, 2006, 05:09 AM   #275
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And of course, another great system.....Copenhagen's new automated metro:






[IMG]http://www.*************/architects/khr/metro/6.jpg[/IMG]


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"In medieval Europe if you didn't like somebody's argument and couldn't think of a real response you called them a witch and demanded they be burned at the stake. In the US you call them unpatriotic, and in Canada you call them racist."
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Old July 6th, 2006, 05:46 AM   #276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.x
Vancouver's automated Canada Line trains, the Rotem XG-EMU (each car is 3 metres wide, 20 metres long, 163 person capacity):

These trains are also used in Hong Kong's MTR, but obviously they aren't automated.
That actually looks based on the domestic Korean model used in its underground railways. The one in Hong Kong has a wider emergency cab exit sitting in the middle, 10 doors per car and over 350 passengers capacity per car (per MTR requirements).

Hong Kong's MTR is definitely not automated in operation, except for ATP protection.
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Old July 6th, 2006, 05:59 AM   #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superchan7
That actually looks based on the domestic Korean model used in its underground railways. The one in Hong Kong has a wider emergency cab exit sitting in the middle, 10 doors per car and over 350 passengers capacity per car (per MTR requirements).

Hong Kong's MTR is definitely not automated in operation, except for ATP protection.
Except for that 1 station link to Disneyland that is...
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Old July 6th, 2006, 06:00 AM   #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minato ku
The majority of Metro system in France have no driver metro line.

Paris
Orlyval 1991
meteor ligne 14 1998
Roissyval will open in 2007
Line 1 will become without driver in 2009~2010

Lyon
line D 1992 ( First Heavy metro train without driver )

Lille
Val line 1 1983
Val line 2 1988

Toulouse
Val line A 1993
Val line B will open in 2008
Rennes
Val line A 2002

Only Marseille has not metro line without driver.
And its the French (obviously leaders in the driverless metro field) company ''Alstom'' that supplied Singapore's driverless systems.
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Old July 6th, 2006, 07:00 AM   #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superchan7
That actually looks based on the domestic Korean model used in its underground railways. The one in Hong Kong has a wider emergency cab exit sitting in the middle, 10 doors per car and over 350 passengers capacity per car (per MTR requirements).

Hong Kong's MTR is definitely not automated in operation, except for ATP protection.
This is a Korean train. Rotem, the company that builds this, is part of Hyundai - a Korean company.

Though much different in size and with different features, some of Hong Kong's fleet is the XG-EMU.
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"Preparations for the Vancouver 2010 Olympics are progressing so well, it's boring. We'd like there to be some challenges, so we [the IOC] could shout at them." - IOC (Sept. 2007)


"In medieval Europe if you didn't like somebody's argument and couldn't think of a real response you called them a witch and demanded they be burned at the stake. In the US you call them unpatriotic, and in Canada you call them racist."
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Old July 6th, 2006, 09:42 AM   #280
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the maglev in shanghai is also fully automated and has no "driver".
The "driver" is just there to give the passengers a save feeling
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