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Old September 22nd, 2013, 07:13 PM   #2881
Pierre50
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Does anyone know what is the present size of the subway cars fleet, and where to find all available details ?
Such a fast extension of the network (almost nothing in 1995 and 14 lines for 420 kms today !!!) means a huge amount of cars to be delivered on a regular base, hence difficult to follow in terms of types and serials.
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Old September 22nd, 2013, 09:46 PM   #2882
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Line 1, 2 - 8-car sets (Old Siemens and Alstom Metropolis) each car is 3x23.75 m. On line 1 Siemens trains are the oldest. The only trains in Shanghai metro that have opening windows.
Line 3 - 6-car sets (Alstom Metropolis, different model) each car is 3x23.75 m.
Line 4 - 6-car sets (Siemens new trains) each car is 3x23.75 m.
Line 5 - 4-car sets (Narrow Alstom Metropolis), each car is 2.60x19 m.
Line 6 - 4-car sets (Narrow Alstom Metropolis, 1st and 2 generation), each car is 2.60x19 m.
Line 7 - 6-car sets (Bombardier Movia 456) each car is 3x23.75 m.
Line 8 - 6/7 car sets (Narrow Alstom Metropolis, 1st and 2 generation), each car is 2.60x19 m.
Line 9 - 6-car sets (Bombardier Movia 456) each car is 3x23.75 m.
Line 10 - 6-car sets (Alstom Metropolis, just like on lines 1 & 2) each car is 3x23.75 m.
Line 11 - 6-car sets (Siemens new trains) each car is 3x23.75 m.
Line 13 - 6-car sets (???) each car is 3x23.75 m.
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Old September 22nd, 2013, 09:51 PM   #2883
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A big misstake they have done on many lines in China so far is that they have built the stations too small. Sized for 4 or 6-car trains, while 8 or even 12-cars would be more of long term sufficient plan. Especially on the most trafficked lines.

So what will they do? extend the station lenghts? Or just add more paralel lines?

When it comes to subway length, I am also agreeing that copying the german S-bahn system is the best option. Perhaps they can even increase the speed on such lines to 200km/h which is faster than in germany. But it does complement the U-bahn systems great in the major german cities, and is a much better solution than just adding 60 stops on the same slow subway line stopping every 2 minutes. When that is said, I don't like what the germans have done and separated the systems completely. I think it is better how they have done this in for example hong kong where they have included it in the same system. I suppose that is also the plan for cities like Nanjing, Wuxi and Kunming etc. But Shanghai, Shenzhen, Guangzhou and Beijing is in desperate need of more of this too.
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Last edited by Bannor; September 22nd, 2013 at 09:58 PM.
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Old September 22nd, 2013, 10:04 PM   #2884
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Wholeheartedly agree. What I don't understand more is that on many lines going throughout the city (it is more Beijing case) they use 6-car trains of B or C-type. 6-car A-type train may be a solution but B or C is a nonsense.

It is much cheaper to use longer trains than to build more and more lines.

Another disadvantage is headways and dwelling time.

I think Shanghai has to make all the lines going through the downtown be able to accept 8-car trainsets of A-type like lines 1 and 2.
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Old September 22nd, 2013, 10:43 PM   #2885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bannor View Post
A big misstake they have done on many lines in China so far is that they have built the stations too small. Sized for 4 or 6-car trains, while 8 or even 12-cars would be more of long term sufficient plan. Especially on the most trafficked lines.
Pretty much, though it's changing, a number of teir II cities are planning to use A size trains on newer lines

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So what will they do? extend the station lenghts? Or just add more paralel lines?
New relief lines, because its sexier to open new lines than improve old ones, China is like the western world in that sense.

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Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
Wholeheartedly agree. What I don't understand more is that on many lines going throughout the city (it is more Beijing case) they use 6-car trains of B or C-type. 6-car A-type train may be a solution but B or C is a nonsense.
It's not really the C size, China practically gave up on that loading gauge because its so shit. The issue is China's fetish with the 6 car B size gauge which makes most of the national total. That too is changing with more places opting for the 8 car B formation, which can take Chinese demand in many situations.

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I think Shanghai has to make all the lines going through the downtown be able to accept 8-car trainsets of A-type like lines 1 and 2.
That would be nice
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Old September 23rd, 2013, 10:26 AM   #2886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bannor View Post
A big misstake they have done on many lines in China so far is that they have built the stations too small. Sized for 4 or 6-car trains, while 8 or even 12-cars would be more of long term sufficient plan. Especially on the most trafficked lines.
Exempli gratia Yamanote line, 11 cars.
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Originally Posted by Bannor View Post
So what will they do? extend the station lenghts? Or just add more paralel lines?
Parallel lines would also mean adding more destination stations. Something that extending station platforms will not accomplish.
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Originally Posted by Bannor View Post
When it comes to subway length, I am also agreeing that copying the german S-bahn system is the best option. Perhaps they can even increase the speed on such lines to 200km/h which is faster than in germany.
China already has suburban railway at 220 km/h (Chengdu-Dujiangyan).

But Shanghai metro line 22 is awfully inefficient. Top speed 160 km/h, yet with 6 intermediate stations it takes 60 minutes for mere 56 km.

The railways in my area are a joke, yet electric trains at top speed 120 km/h manage 56 km with 6 stops in 48 minutes, and same distance with 11 stops in 58 minutes.

How about Shanghai building a new suburban railway and doing it right this time?
The original S-bahn design scheme was:
top speed 120 km/h
acceleration and deceleration 1 m/s2 (limited by passenger comfort) all the way to cruise speed
average station distance 2700 m
dwell time at station 30 s
then 30 s acceleration to 108 km/h, 60 s cruise at 108 km/h, 30 s deceleration covers the 2700 m in 120 s, total 150 s per stop means 24 stops per hour, 65 km/h average speed

Now letīs take top speed 200 km/h, still acceleration limited to 1 m/s2 by passenger comfort but sustained all the way to cruise speed
50 s acceleration to 180 km/h, 100 s cruise etc. - total 200 s travel time for 7500 m interstation distance.
letīs allow 40 s rather than 30 s dwell time
then we get 240 s per stop meaning 15 stops per hour, average speed 112 km/h.
Compare this with the existing 350 km/h line Shanghai-Nanjing
Between Shanghai and Wuxi I count 12 stations total
Shanghai West
Nanxiang North
Anting North
Huaqiao
Kunshan South
Yangcheng Lake
Weiting West
Suzhou Industrial Park
Suzhou
Suzhou New Area
Wangting East
Wuxi New Area

But 2 of these 12 are shut (Weiting West and Wangting East)
The bigger problem is the schedule. NO train makes more than 3 stops in the 126 km between Shanghai and Wuxi.

So, what should be done to ensure frequent and memorable service to EVERY small station on the line? Schedule adjustments on the existing line, or build a new parallel line?
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Originally Posted by Bannor View Post
But it does complement the U-bahn systems great in the major german cities, and is a much better solution than just adding 60 stops on the same slow subway line stopping every 2 minutes. When that is said, I don't like what the germans have done and separated the systems completely. I think it is better how they have done this in for example hong kong where they have included it in the same system.
Hong Kong is not big enough to have suburbs or satellite cities. East Rail is mere 34 km between Hung Hom and Lo Wu, and with 10 intermediate stations it is covered in 42,5 minutes. No real need to mix expresses with stopping trains, and no major centres to serve - the longhaul direct trains are expresses of course, but no local expresses.
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I suppose that is also the plan for cities like Nanjing, Wuxi and Kunming
Which railway lines out of Kunming should be shared with suburban services?
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etc. But Shanghai, Shenzhen, Guangzhou and Beijing is in desperate need of more of this too.
Indeed. Look at Shanghai. The 29 km Shanghai-Anting is almost as long as Hung Hom-Lo Wu. It ought to have at least 8 stations.
Only 2 exist - Shanghai West and Nanxiang North. Yet there is just 1 train daily (sic!) to Nanxiang North!

In such a suburban environment, I do not think service less than each 10 minutes is real service... Hong Kong East Rail has 23 trains per hour, to all stops.
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Old September 23rd, 2013, 05:47 PM   #2887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post

In such a suburban environment, I do not think service less than each 10 minutes is real service... Hong Kong East Rail has 23 trains per hour, to all stops.
The Hong Kong East Rail line is not really the proper line for comparing suburban environments, since it also takes people to/from the very busy border.
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Old September 23rd, 2013, 09:21 PM   #2888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
China already has suburban railway at 220 km/h (Chengdu-Dujiangyan).
Good, but is it a part of an urban system in Chengdu? Or is it part of the CHR network?


Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
So, what should be done to ensure frequent and memorable service to EVERY small station on the line? Schedule adjustments on the existing line, or build a new parallel line?
Seeing that there already is a few paralell lines on this route, I think the slower line (this one in this case) should receive a scheduel adjustment. If that leads to undercapacity on the quicker line, then a new line needs to be built.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Hong Kong is not big enough to have suburbs or satellite cities. East Rail is mere 34 km between Hung Hom and Lo Wu, and with 10 intermediate stations it is covered in 42,5 minutes. No real need to mix expresses with stopping trains, and no major centres to serve - the longhaul direct trains are expresses of course, but no local expresses.
My point was that you can ride the East Rail and West rail on the same Octopus card, and you don't have to leave and enter new stations going on the metro...

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Which railway lines out of Kunming should be shared with suburban services?
I have no idea, but it was mentionned here in this thread earlier.
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Old September 24th, 2013, 11:49 PM   #2889
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Jin Sha Jiang Road. This is a shared station of lines 3 & 4 on the overground part, so that from the train you can see the cityscape quite well. Line 4 goes almost all along the Inner ring road.



I especially like the fact that it is above-grade.



Stairs have a line in the middle indicating where to stand.



That was a HDR shot, resulted in the "tripling" of the man at the left. The station is considered rather old in Shanghai so it looks it bit torn and has no marble or smth like that.



A Siemens train of line 4 линии. As yuo might know in Shanghai as well as in many Chinese cities the rolling stiock has a livery of the official colour of the line. Line 3 has got red-yellow-white Alstom Metropolis trains. But we need line 4 to go THERE.



Inside the train. Each car is 3x23.58 m and has got 5 doors on each side. The train has got 6 cars.





In Shanghai, only Siemens trains on line 4 have such round handles. Another feature - violet interior.



Me.



Coming to the busiest and the longest line of Shanghai metro (64 km long( - line 2. There are no PSD on many of its stations. It will take us to LUJIAZUI.



Century Avenue - is the largest metro-hub in Shanghai boasting 4 lines a once: 2, 4, 6 and 9. There is no more a hub to have so many crossing lines.



Inside an Alstom Metropolis trai. Each car is of A-type (3.00х23.58 m), each train has got 8 cars being very long. I think lines 3, 4, 7, 9, 10 and 11 should have 8-car trains, too.



Some of these trains are manufactured in Nanjing, some right there, in Shanghai.



Cellphones ad. I can say Mobile phone industry os well developed in Shanghai. Everyone has got a top-notch smartphone. The network, especially China Unicom offers a really high speed Internet access. The trains are very quiet and convenient, so I had an opportunity to talk to my mum who was in Moscow at that time, on Facetime (videocall) being inside the train myself. That was cool!



05.07.2013.
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Old September 29th, 2013, 11:28 PM   #2890
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Shanghai planning a 6 line 90km tram network in Songjiang. Connections to Lines 5, 9, 12, 17, and 20.



Source
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Old September 30th, 2013, 09:52 AM   #2891
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That's absolutely great. Hope they won't choose Translohr technology again.

Hope much to see modern tram lines in the downtown.
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Old October 3rd, 2013, 05:44 AM   #2892
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Anyone know why Nanjing East Road station was closed 1 Oct? Was it because of overcrowding in the streets above?
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Old October 3rd, 2013, 09:38 AM   #2893
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yes. Nanjing East Rd Station serves the Bund tourists. There'll be a hundreds of thousand people over there during the holiday (Oct 1 ~ 7). Local people all try to avoid these places during holidays.
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Old October 3rd, 2013, 09:39 AM   #2894
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And what happenede on that day?
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Old October 3rd, 2013, 11:16 AM   #2895
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
Line 1, 2 - 8-car sets (Old Siemens and Alstom Metropolis) each car is 3x23.75 m. On line 1 Siemens trains are the oldest. The only trains in Shanghai metro that have opening windows.
Line 3 - 6-car sets (Alstom Metropolis, different model) each car is 3x23.75 m.
Line 4 - 6-car sets (Siemens new trains) each car is 3x23.75 m.
Line 5 - 4-car sets (Narrow Alstom Metropolis), each car is 2.60x19 m.
Line 6 - 4-car sets (Narrow Alstom Metropolis, 1st and 2 generation), each car is 2.60x19 m.
Line 7 - 6-car sets (Bombardier Movia 456) each car is 3x23.75 m.
Line 8 - 6/7 car sets (Narrow Alstom Metropolis, 1st and 2 generation), each car is 2.60x19 m.
Line 9 - 6-car sets (Bombardier Movia 456) each car is 3x23.75 m.
Line 10 - 6-car sets (Alstom Metropolis, just like on lines 1 & 2) each car is 3x23.75 m.
Line 11 - 6-car sets (Siemens new trains) each car is 3x23.75 m.
Line 13 - 6-car sets (???) each car is 3x23.75 m.
OK, Great ... start, for understanding perfectly which train types are running in Shanghai.
Is it possible to have exact train denomination ? It appears all train types are of the format ACxx. The number of trains / cars per type would be ideal.
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Old October 4th, 2013, 08:36 AM   #2896
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I'm working on it. Seems like no exact and complete data there are.
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Old October 9th, 2013, 11:25 AM   #2897
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Line 16 (U/C)

Lingang Avenue Station and Huinan Statin



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Old October 9th, 2013, 11:44 AM   #2898
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That's not so good that they've installed PSDs, and the trains have just 3 doors on each side. In the future that won't be enough.

Big-dog, how long are the underground stations of line 16?
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Old October 9th, 2013, 12:24 PM   #2899
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And what happenede on that day?
I think it's the start of Golden Week (a week long national holiday in China, starting with National Day). Lots of tourists around as its not often the Chinese get a holiday.
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Old October 9th, 2013, 09:54 PM   #2900
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Lujiazui station.

In July, the boardings were dismantled for an unknown reason.

I have liked this station since 2006 - keeping good memories since that time. It reminds me much of 2 Moscow stations that are right below Moscow City IBD. I also like the fact that it is curved. and I finally appreciate that is gives you the way to Lujiazui area - the district full of lights and colours.


http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/night-c...m/view/690577/


http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/night-c...m/view/690578/

A bit zoomed in picture. The station is almost 200 m long. I was standing in the middle.


http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/night-c...m/view/690579/

Holes that have remained after putting the boards away.


http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/night-c...m/view/690580/

Dapuqiao station and my favourite trains, Bombardier Movia.


http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/night-c...m/view/690581/

5 .05. 2013.
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