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Old January 3rd, 2014, 02:55 PM   #3021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swede View Post
3 cars? Just 3? How low capacity are these lines?
Stockholm has 100 stations for a metropolitan area of just 2.1M, and we've got 6 car trains only during the low-use hours. How many trains per hour and how long trains do Chinese metros run at?
Those things tend not to scale linearly. 100 stations in Stockholm is really a lot, probably among the most dense systems in the world per capita.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 04:30 PM   #3022
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No, Paris is much much denser.

In Stockholm cars are much smaller than those in Shanghai. Then, do not forget that line 16 is actually a line crossing mostly rural areas, fields and pastures. Quite far from the city center.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 04:32 PM   #3023
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saiho View Post
Make it 8A car please. Actually it should be 8A it passes through Jingan lujiazui puxi and putuo CBDs
I would say most of the lines should be 8A. In particular, lines 3, 4, 7, 9, 10, 11.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 04:36 PM   #3024
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Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
12/31/2013 Line 14 Environment Assessment started

Line 14 will be the last planned metro line to pass thru city center.

--metrofans
Which is not good as Shanghai still needs more lines and stations in this hyper dense area.

This also means the line would be the most expensive among the new ones.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 04:42 PM   #3025
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Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
No, Paris is much much denser.
Stations in central Paris are very close to each other however the analysis of overall density doesn't support your claim. Stockholm - 100 stations for 2.1 million people, Paris - 303 stations for 10.5 million people. Stockholm is way ahead! Of course this doesn't take into account that communities more distant from central Paris are served by a commuter rail (RER) instead of metro.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 04:56 PM   #3026
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Quote:
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Is Line 14 built partly to relieve line 2?
Exactly. It shares busy stops such as Jingansi and Lujiazui with Line 2. And it added capacity to stops like Yu Garden and Lujiazui. It also connects another important area Jinqiao of Pudong. So it's a highly anticipated and maybe the last interesting metro line of Shanghai.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 05:01 PM   #3027
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
Which is not good as Shanghai still needs more lines and stations in this hyper dense area.

This also means the line would be the most expensive among the new ones.
Pudong needs more lines now. Think it's time to increase density of Pudong next.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 05:13 PM   #3028
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swede View Post
3 cars? Just 3? How low capacity are these lines?
Stockholm has 100 stations for a metropolitan area of just 2.1M, and we've got 6 car trains only during the low-use hours. How many trains per hour and how long trains do Chinese metros run at?
3 expandable to 6 cars. A 6 car shanghai train is approximately the same length as a 8 car Stockholm train but Shanghai trains are also wider.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 05:19 PM   #3029
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In Stockholm the new C-20 are actually 3 triple cars per train. And I think a 6-car A train in Shanghai has a much greater capacity than the C-20.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 05:21 PM   #3030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Stations in central Paris are very close to each other however the analysis of overall density doesn't support your claim. Stockholm - 100 stations for 2.1 million people, Paris - 303 stations for 10.5 million people. Stockholm is way ahead! Of course this doesn't take into account that communities more distant from central Paris are served by a commuter rail (RER) instead of metro.
Paris itself has nothing to do with 10.5 million. That's the figure for its agglomeration. The metro serves mainly the city intra muros.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 05:24 PM   #3031
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I know, but we need to compare apples with apples. Stockholm itself also has nothing to do with 2.1 million.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 06:18 PM   #3032
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixboi08 View Post
It might have something to do with 16 being in eastern Pudong.
It also doesn't service the inner city, but connects to 11, 2, and 7, all of which do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
In Stockholm cars are much smaller than those in Shanghai. Then, do not forget that line 16 is actually a line crossing mostly rural areas, fields and pastures. Quite far from the city center.
Ah, so it's a line made in preparation of the city growing even more? Then it makes perfect sense to start traffic of using short trains. Far, far better to have service up and running even before those areas get built up than the other way 'round.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saiho View Post
3 expandable to 6 cars. A 6 car shanghai train is approximately the same length as a 8 car Stockholm train but Shanghai trains are also wider.
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
In Stockholm the new C-20 are actually 3 triple cars per train. And I think a 6-car A train in Shanghai has a much greater capacity than the C-20.
A "short" C20 train has 2*C20, a standard one has 3*C20.
Per C20:
Length: 46.5M Width: 2.9M Seated Capacity: 126 Total design capacity: 414
Not sure how this stacks against the Chinese A & B cars.

The furthest outlying branches of the Stockholm metro run at just 6 tph during the peak, thru the center it gets up to about 24-30tph during the morning rush.
What's the trains per hour like on most Shanghai lines? I'm guessing it's at least as high as Stockholm's, given that the Stockholm system opened 60 years ago.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 07:24 PM   #3033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swede View Post
A "short" C20 train has 2*C20, a standard one has 3*C20.
Per C20:
Length: 46.5M Width: 2.9M Seated Capacity: 126 Total design capacity: 414
Not sure how this stacks against the Chinese A & B cars.
Stockholm three C20 sets (9 cars) 1,250 pax
Shanghai 6 car A 1,860 pax
Shanghai 8 car A 2,480 pax

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swede View Post
The furthest outlying branches of the Stockholm metro run at just 6 tph during the peak, thru the center it gets up to about 24-30tph during the morning rush.
What's the trains per hour like on most Shanghai lines? I'm guessing it's at least as high as Stockholm's, given that the Stockholm system opened 60 years ago.
Capable of reaching 30 tph but can't due to shortage of rolling stock and rapid expansion of the new lines sucking up the new ones.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 10:49 PM   #3034
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Here's a video of Line 16:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25559413
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Old January 4th, 2014, 02:10 AM   #3035
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Interesting. I always thought Shanghai Metro had overhead wires. Especially at 120 km/h I think the friction of 3rd rail would make overhead wire make even more sense.
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Old January 4th, 2014, 02:57 AM   #3036
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Interesting. I always thought Shanghai Metro had overhead wires. Especially at 120 km/h I think the friction of 3rd rail would make overhead wire make even more sense.
They chose 3rd rail to make the overhead structures the train runs on less intrusive.
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Old January 4th, 2014, 04:05 AM   #3037
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saiho View Post
They chose 3rd rail to make the overhead structures the train runs on less intrusive.
Thanks, I never knew!
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Old January 4th, 2014, 03:20 PM   #3038
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swede View Post
Ah, so it's a line made in preparation of the city growing even more? Then it makes perfect sense to start traffic of using short trains. Far, far better to have service up and running even before those areas get built up than the other way 'round.
I don't really know that much about that particular area (it's really far from the city, and quite "rural," for lack of a better term), but keep in mind that - where 16 and Line 11 meet - there will be the huge Disney park and resulting hotels, etc.

16, then, will be one of the most direct ways to get from the Airport to that area - short of taking a taxi or shuttle - and taking it to Line 2 or 7 would get you into the city a bit more quickly than line 11.

Anyways, I tend to think it's more about servicing tourism and the resulting services than a permanent residential population (i.e. I think frequency matters more than capacity).
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Old January 4th, 2014, 08:57 PM   #3039
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According to the situation of passenger-flow these days, 3 cars is a little bit conservertive, especially in such kinda car with low standing capacity.
But if you guys walk along the Line 16, you may understand why they made such a prediction for short term. Line 16 is a totally a suburban railway. Some of its station is still surrounded by farm now.
Currently, Line 16 is not perfectly connect to the Main network, so maybe 3A can still hold the demand. If it still keep 3A when the track to Longyang Rd(a transfer station with Line 2 and 7) is finished, things will be terrible.
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Old January 4th, 2014, 09:26 PM   #3040
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevZh View Post
According to the situation of passenger-flow these days, 3 cars is a little bit conservertive, especially in such kinda car with low standing capacity.
But if you guys walk along the Line 16, you may understand why they made such a prediction for short term. Line 16 is a totally a suburban railway. Some of its station is still surrounded by farm now.
Currently, Line 16 is not perfectly connect to the Main network, so maybe 3A can still hold the demand. If it still keep 3A when the track to Longyang Rd(a transfer station with Line 2 and 7) is finished, things will be terrible.
I passed by line 16 a few weeks ago and there were already quite a few new residential blocks surrounding the station I saw. They will definitely have to extend the trains once all the farmers move into the newly built apartments.
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