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Old May 4th, 2014, 08:08 AM   #3141
ode of bund
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashis Mitra View Post
I heard some plans about extension of the tram network. The next phase of the project is the Zhangjiang tram division multiple-phase construction, a project in the east Greenfield Road, from Zu Chong Zhi Road (Shanghai Metro Line 2 Zhangjiang Hi-tech station), west to Osmanthus Road Autumn Road, which covers a distance of about 10 km, with a total of 15 stops, 1 depot. It will be followed by an extension in the direction of Tang Zhen-Qing. Could anybody post a map, about the extension, and some more details?

Is there any official website of Shanghai’s new rubber tired tram (translohr)?
Nothing like this is heard, again like I said, Shanghai has shifted interest back to trolley-bus now.
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Old May 7th, 2014, 06:35 AM   #3142
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Line 12 Qufu Rd Station will open on Saturday May 10th

Passenger can transfer to Line 8 at this station.









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Old May 7th, 2014, 07:35 AM   #3143
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I don't think so. The reason most likely is that NYC stations are closer together. In Paris they are definitely much closer to each other.

In any case the greatest urban rail system is neither Shanghai nor NYC. Once you count all operators and all lines (metro+suburban rail) that title without a doubt goes to Tokyo.
Eh... I would say Tokyo and NYC are roughly comparable in length if you count all rail transport across both metropolitan areas (NYC has three separate equally massive suburban rail systems in addition to PATH, Staten Island Railway, Bergen/Newark Light Rail). I do acknowledge that NYC ridership though is far lower than Tokyo, especially on the commuter rail side. This is evident from the fact that apart from the E, F, G, M lines in Queens and 4, 5, 6 lines in Manhattan, you don't get nearly the same overcrowding as you do in Tokyo.

Shanghai could easily be up there if it puts together another 1,000 to 2,000 km suburban rail system that extends well into Jiangsu, Zhejiang and Chongming Island. The other extremely frustrating thing about Shanghai is how early it closes. 11 PM is kind of absurd. Not everyplace can sustain 24 hour service, but normal subway systems close around midnight to 2 AM. Nevertheless, it is very incredible that a system thats only open such limited hours handles almost twice the passenger volume of the NYC subway opened 24 hours. Think about how much higher ridership levels would be if the Shanghai metro extended its service hours.
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Old May 7th, 2014, 09:14 AM   #3144
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In Shanghai after 11 PM taxi is the most popular means of transport. When you are 3 for instance, very often it becomes as cheap as metro.
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Old May 7th, 2014, 11:59 AM   #3145
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Eh... I would say Tokyo and NYC are roughly comparable in length if you count all rail transport across both metropolitan areas (NYC has three separate equally massive suburban rail systems in addition to PATH, Staten Island Railway, Bergen/Newark Light Rail). I do acknowledge that NYC ridership though is far lower than Tokyo, especially on the commuter rail side. This is evident from the fact that apart from the E, F, G, M lines in Queens and 4, 5, 6 lines in Manhattan, you don't get nearly the same overcrowding as you do in Tokyo.

Shanghai could easily be up there if it puts together another 1,000 to 2,000 km suburban rail system that extends well into Jiangsu, Zhejiang and Chongming Island. The other extremely frustrating thing about Shanghai is how early it closes. 11 PM is kind of absurd. Not everyplace can sustain 24 hour service, but normal subway systems close around midnight to 2 AM. Nevertheless, it is very incredible that a system thats only open such limited hours handles almost twice the passenger volume of the NYC subway opened 24 hours. Think about how much higher ridership levels would be if the Shanghai metro extended its service hours.
Erm, Tokyo has 4,714.7 km of rail lines in its metropolitan area with 2,141 stations. As far as I know, New York does not come close to touching that. There is no comparison between Tokyo and New York there at all - especially in terms of ridership (13.5 billion riders per year on the Tokyo system as a whole with 37 million rides per day). Happy to be proven wrong if you have figures to say that the New York metropolitan area has rail coverage on par with that...

Source here - put together by SSC users Quashlo and Ukiyo (amongst others)
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Old May 7th, 2014, 12:27 PM   #3146
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In Shanghai after 11 PM taxi is the most popular means of transport. When you are 3 for instance, very often it becomes as cheap as metro.
I suppose that a so big metropolis should have also an all night bus service.
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Old May 7th, 2014, 01:16 PM   #3147
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Ode of bound, thank u very much for your details information about former tram network. Could you please tell some details and some maps about the future steel wheeled tram system in Shanghai? Because I know that despite the current rubber tired tram system, they are planning to build a seperate steel wheeled tram system.
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Old May 7th, 2014, 04:02 PM   #3148
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In Shanghai after 11 PM taxi is the most popular means of transport.
Pehaps because there is no metro?
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Old May 7th, 2014, 07:26 PM   #3149
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Erm, Tokyo has 4,714.7 km of rail lines in its metropolitan area with 2,141 stations. As far as I know, New York does not come close to touching that. There is no comparison between Tokyo and New York there at all - especially in terms of ridership (13.5 billion riders per year on the Tokyo system as a whole with 37 million rides per day). Happy to be proven wrong if you have figures to say that the New York metropolitan area has rail coverage on par with that...

Source here - put together by SSC users Quashlo and Ukiyo (amongst others)
I have not been able to find any route length data on the NJ Transit commuter rail or the Metro North. LIRR has approximately 500 km of route length according to the LIRR wikipedia page (315 miles). The only reliable information I can find are regarding the subway (373 km), SI Railway (22 km), Newark Subway (10.1 km), PATH train (22.2 km), Hudson Bergen light rail (20.6 km). I was able to find reliable figures on total number of stations, which turns out to be 959. Assuming NJ Transit and Metro North are comparable to LIRR at approximately 500 km each (which isn't unreasonable), we're looking at a combined rail transit route mileage of approximately 2,000 km. If your figures are accurate, then that would mean NY has about little less than half the size in length of Tokyo area. On the other hand, this source suggests Tokyo's rail transit to be closer to 2,000 km. I said NY was close to Tokyo with the 2,000 km figure in mind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transpo...yo#cite_note-1

Yes, with regards to ridership, NYC is nowhere close.

That being said, I think that Tokyo or NYC would be the gold standard for Shanghai to strive toward. With officials becoming increasingly aware of commuter rails as a supplement to urban transit, I would not be surprised if Shanghai plans another 2,000 km commuter rail system for the 2020 to 2040 timeframe. After all, 2020 is almost here. We're as far from 2020 as we are from 2014.
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Old May 7th, 2014, 07:57 PM   #3150
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His figures are accurate as they are directly from the operators with links to their direct sources in the references. The source on your page (which I also edited but never bothered editing that part, I just added "over") for the "over 2,000 km" is the "urban transport factbook" which themself have the length at basically 3,000 km (1,800 miles) http://www.publicpurpose.com/ut-cr-tok.pdf

They are only counting the "urban area" as they say mention "urban area" several times in the study and not metropolitan area, essentially excluding the vast suburbs and private smaller railways. Keep in mind that study is from 2003 as well. JR east by themself has 2,279.2 km in the greater Tokyo area as defined by the "Tokyo Suburban Area" 東京近郊区間 and that's only one operator.
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Last edited by ukiyo; May 7th, 2014 at 08:34 PM.
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Old May 7th, 2014, 08:41 PM   #3151
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His figures are accurate as they are directly from the operators with links to their direct sources in the references. The source on your page (which I also edited but never bothered editing that part, I just added "over") for the "over 2,000 km" is the "urban transport factbook" which themself have the length at basically 3,000 km (1,800 miles) http://www.publicpurpose.com/ut-cr-tok.pdf

They are only counting the "urban area" (most likely as defined by Tokyo Metro) as they say mention "urban area" several times in the study, essentially excluding the vast suburbs and private smaller railways. JR east by themself has 2,279.2 km in the greater Tokyo area as defined by the "Tokyo Suburban Area" 東京近郊区間 and that's only one operator.
Okay that makes sense. Since we're comparing metropolitan area to metropolitan area, then Tokyo urban transit seems to be about more than twice the size of NYC's with far higher ridership. Rail transit across Japan seems to be the norm, while NYC is an oddity in the U.S.

One thing I feel like both NYC and Tokyo have in common is that their systems were developed by private companies. Correct me if I'm wrong, but many of Tokyo's rail lines are still operated by private companies. That is what allowed them to build such dense and expansive rail networks.

Shanghai on the other hand is directed by the government. I'm sure there are pros and cons to both but it would be interesting to think about the possibility of allowing market competition for private companies to build the suburban lines.
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Old May 7th, 2014, 08:45 PM   #3152
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Isn't metropolitan Tokyo almost twice as populous as metropolitan New York (36 million vs 19)? If so then it makes perfect sense that the rail network is also much larger.
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Old May 7th, 2014, 08:47 PM   #3153
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Since this is route length, metropolitan area is a more viable comparison otherwise a dense city is disadvantaged compared to a sprawled one. Ridership per capita. Km route length per km sq.
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Old May 7th, 2014, 08:56 PM   #3154
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Quote:
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One thing I feel like both NYC and Tokyo have in common is that their systems were developed by private companies. Correct me if I'm wrong, but many of Tokyo's rail lines are still operated by private companies. That is what allowed them to build such dense and expansive rail networks.
I never knew NY rail was made by private systems I always thought it's public systems. As for Japan that is kind of true, but it's a lot more complicated than that, JR for example was only privatized in 1987.

As for Shanghai the CCP can basically build whatever it wants whenever it wants so I would imagine that is the most efficient way to build more rail
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Old May 7th, 2014, 09:00 PM   #3155
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Nearly all old rail systems were privately built! The UK had extensive private involvement in its railway construction and rival companies even used different gauges to each other. =P
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Old May 7th, 2014, 09:10 PM   #3156
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I suppose that a so big metropolis should have also an all night bus service.
Is there no night bus service in Shanghai? That would be really strange.
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Old May 7th, 2014, 11:31 PM   #3157
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I suppose that a so big metropolis should have also an all night bus service.
It definitely should. But would you go for a bus or for a taxi where a ride will cost you generally 2-5€ ?
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Old May 7th, 2014, 11:32 PM   #3158
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Line 12 Qufu Rd Station will open on Saturday May 10th

Passenger can transfer to Line 8 at this station.









--xinmin, metrofans
David what is the length of this extension and will they add any trains on line 12 due to the opening?
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Old May 7th, 2014, 11:57 PM   #3159
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Ashis Mitra, steel-wheeled tram lines will be constructed in the cities far away form the downtown, which are equally within Shanghai. Songjiang, for instance.
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Old May 8th, 2014, 04:53 AM   #3160
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David what is the length of this extension and will they add any trains on line 12 due to the opening?
About 1.3km. they won't add trains and they'll keep the current interval. I guess the current trains still have capacity.


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