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Old April 27th, 2008, 12:55 AM   #881
drunkenmunkey888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alargule View Post
Could be for two reasons:

1) "400 km" is really an estimate, and the network would actually get (slightly) larger (say 409...);

2) they're only talking of 'the biggest metro network' when all plans are completed. AFAIK, the network should have reached a length of approx. 800 kms by then...now beat that, London!
Yeah, its gonna be 400km in 2010 and 970km in 2020. But the thing is, London has way more than 970km if you count suburban rail too, which you should because Shanghai's metro acts as both a suburban rail and subway.
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Old April 27th, 2008, 04:40 AM   #882
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Plus Shanghai's will be dull and clinical, London's isn't and never will be
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Old April 27th, 2008, 07:34 AM   #883
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We can never be too sure whether what part of Shanghai is urban and what parts are suburban.

Shanghai as a city is currently "claiming" its territory, and establishing what is within the city and what is not.

Why can't Shanghai actually have a metro of 970km? Isn't Shanghai much bigger than London? Are you people actually amazed at long term planning? Surely you know that Shanghai is almost at a transport crunch now and needs a better way to connect citizens across the city?

Take Singapore for example, it plans to have a metro length of 540km by 2020; larger than London or just making the city more conducive for metro use? You decide.
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Old April 27th, 2008, 07:49 AM   #884
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It's just jealousy. You can see it in many of iampuking's posts.
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Old April 27th, 2008, 11:01 AM   #885
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The first map really reminds me London subway. By style.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
Plus Shanghai's will be dull and clinical, London's isn't and never will be
London is great city but I afraid London's metro is dull and clinical. With uncountable delays, trains aren't frequent at certain stations, design of stations is crappy and it is the most expensive in the world. Shanghai will offer more qualitative service for reasonable price.

Last edited by Alexriga; April 27th, 2008 at 11:07 AM.
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Old April 27th, 2008, 05:14 PM   #886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexriga View Post
The first map really reminds me London subway. By style.



London is great city but I afraid London's metro is dull and clinical. With uncountable delays, trains aren't frequent at certain stations, design of stations is crappy and it is the most expensive in the world. Shanghai will offer more qualitative service for reasonable price.
You obviously don't know English well enough to know what "dull" or "clinical" mean. What you're describing is just what you're describing.
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Old April 27th, 2008, 08:03 PM   #887
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ddes is right. Shanghai is a special administrative unit the territory of which is more than 5000 sq km. It is not the Shanghai region or province, it is the whole unit. Obviously, all this area has not been covered with industry, accomodation etc yet. So, we can't speak of "suburban areas" of Shanghai because they are only parts that are not developed yet. But it's still Shanghai, not some "Shanghai province".

As for its metro, 970 km will be the metro itself, commuter lines and things like that are not included there.

By they way 408 km for London underground, how was this figure calculated?

iampuking, don't take on so! Sure, you're a native speaker but anyway he was right.
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Old April 27th, 2008, 10:09 PM   #888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
ddes is right. Shanghai is a special administrative unit the territory of which is more than 5000 sq km. It is not the Shanghai region or province, it is the whole unit. Obviously, all this area has not been covered with industry, accomodation etc yet. So, we can't speak of "suburban areas" of Shanghai because they are only parts that are not developed yet. But it's still Shanghai, not some "Shanghai province".

As for its metro, 970 km will be the metro itself, commuter lines and things like that are not included there.

By they way 408 km for London underground, how was this figure calculated?

iampuking, don't take on so! Sure, you're a native speaker but anyway he was right.
So you're saying that there could be further suburban rail plans from 2020-? that can bring the total rail length up to be on par with London, Tokyo, and New York?
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Old April 28th, 2008, 02:29 AM   #889
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People's Square skylight:

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Old April 28th, 2008, 02:31 AM   #890
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Some station artwork at the Children's Medical Center station:




Close up:

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Old April 28th, 2008, 03:34 AM   #891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
By they way 408 km for London underground, how was this figure calculated?
What exactly are you asking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
iampuking, don't take on so! Sure, you're a native speaker but anyway he was right.
What he said was right, but it was irrelevant as I was never mentioning whether or not Shanghai was unreliable, I was saying it was dull and clinical. It is. Most of the stations look like Brent Cross for christ sakes.
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Old April 28th, 2008, 08:27 AM   #892
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkenmunkey888 View Post
So you're saying that there could be further suburban rail plans from 2020-? that can bring the total rail length up to be on par with London, Tokyo, and New York?
I can't affirm that but it is probable. 970 km is a figure describing only Shanghai metro.
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Old April 28th, 2008, 08:29 AM   #893
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Iampuking, I mean 408 km is a figure that was calculated in the way every track was counted only once (regardless the fact it may be used by several lines)?

As for Brent Cross, you're partly right, many steations look like that, but probably half of them. When I was in Shanghai in 2006, I managed to view almost all stations (more than 80 %).
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Old April 28th, 2008, 11:08 AM   #894
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It's from here. It says 'track legnth', which is a silly way of putting it, as it implies a double track section would be measured as two tracks, it isn't as the figure would be much higher, it probably means 'route legnth'.

EDIT: If you scroll down it's confirmed, the amount of LU in double, quadruple and triple tracks is first mentioned, and then the total, implying that they count it as one system, and lines are counted together.
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Old April 30th, 2008, 08:53 AM   #895
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Shanghai Metro seems like very creative!
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 09:52 PM   #896
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Taken From Shanghai Expat's Weblog:

May 23rd, 2008:

According to an article in the Shanghai Morning Post, the Shanghai Metro company is preparing to adjust the hours of operation of 5 subway lines and implementing a "virtual transfer" system for transportation card holders at three stations where direct transfers between connecting lines is not currently possible.

The adjusted hours of operation will be implemented starting June 1 and are meant to coordinate passenger flow between several connecting lines. The new hours are:

Line 1: Last train arriving at Xinzhuang extended from 22:20 to 22:32.
Line 4: Last outer loop (counter clockwise) train arriving at South Railway Station extended from 22:00 to 22:14.
Line 5: Last train from Xinzhuang extended from 22:20 to 22:30.
Line 6 : First train from Gangcheng Road pushed forward from 6:30 to 6:00, last train extended from 20:00 to 21:11; first train from Lingshi Road pushed forward from 7:00 to 6:08, last train extended from 20:57 to 21:26.
Line 9: Last train from Guilin Road extended from 21:0 to 21:15.

More exciting is the new "virtual transfer" (虚拟换乘) system to be implemented as of June 1 at Shanghai Railway Station, Hongkou Football Stadium and Yishan Road. All three of these stations currently suffer from the same problem: for one reason or another it is impossible to change lines without exiting the station and buying a new ticket to re-enter the station at the other platform. To alleviate this problem the metro system will give transportation card holders a 30 minute grace period after they exit one platform to enter at the other platform and pay the same ticket price as if they had never left the metro system at all. In order to account for the new price possibilities, the Metro Company will release to all station a new price grid simultaneous to the implementation of the virtual transfer system. Due to the cost single-journey IC tickets and the need to collect them at the end of each trip for re-use, the virtual transfer option will not be available to single-journey ticket holders.

Just one more reason to get yourself a transportation card, folks!
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 10:00 PM   #897
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I guess extending the operational times are a good idea but unfortunately, the change is almost negligible. Some of these lines close at like 9:30 pm, which is absolutely pathetic! High school kids take all sorts of test preparation classes that end later than that! A city like Shanghai must have nothing less than a 24 hour metro system.

Shanghai metro is starting to look a lot like the Washington DC metro. No 24 hour system. No four track local/express service. Doubles up as a commuter rail in the suburbs. Stations are absurdly far apart (Greater than 1km between stations on average). This new virtual card that is being introduced strongly resembles the SmartTrip card that DC metro uses. Its pitifully unfortunate that Shanghai metro is coming to resemble the DC metro. A city as ambitious as Shanghai must not settle for anything less than the scale of New York City's rail transit system (3 different suburban rail networks, a 24 hour subway with 4 track express/local service, supplementary light rail to fill in gaps). DC metro is awful!
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Old May 24th, 2008, 03:19 AM   #898
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkenmunkey888 View Post
I guess extending the operational times are a good idea but unfortunately, the change is almost negligible. Some of these lines close at like 9:30 pm, which is absolutely pathetic! High school kids take all sorts of test preparation classes that end later than that! A city like Shanghai must have nothing less than a 24 hour metro system.

Shanghai metro is starting to look a lot like the Washington DC metro. No 24 hour system. No four track local/express service. Doubles up as a commuter rail in the suburbs. Stations are absurdly far apart (Greater than 1km between stations on average). This new virtual card that is being introduced strongly resembles the SmartTrip card that DC metro uses. Its pitifully unfortunate that Shanghai metro is coming to resemble the DC metro. A city as ambitious as Shanghai must not settle for anything less than the scale of New York City's rail transit system (3 different suburban rail networks, a 24 hour subway with 4 track express/local service, supplementary light rail to fill in gaps). DC metro is awful!
Do you ever shut up?

Most networks manage to run fine without:

24/7 service
express tracks
close together stations

That's not to say that New York's isn't good, but is completely let down by crapola track and signalling that means trains go about 1mph on average, stations that look like the construction workers decided to go on a never-ending strike halfway through, crap off-peak frequency and arse-damaging seats, so please, give it a rest.
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Old May 24th, 2008, 03:45 PM   #899
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkenmunkey888 View Post
Shanghai metro is starting to look a lot like the Washington DC metro. No 24 hour system. No four track local/express service. Doubles up as a commuter rail in the suburbs. Stations are absurdly far apart (Greater than 1km between stations on average).
Stations more than 1km apart is not catastrophic for a large city, I would rather say too close would be worse. This way you can reach it by walking 15 mins which is no drama, and you can get to the other end of the city in a reasonnable time. then if you make this choice you don't spend your money on an express city service that would'nt be much faster anyway.
Express city services are only a must for distances beyond 15km, and Shanghai is pretty compact.
The only real point is the 24hour, which sould be at least 20 hours or so...
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Old May 24th, 2008, 04:36 PM   #900
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And according to this thread the NY Subway express lines are in some cases too jammed with trains in peak hour that the local service is faster!

Plus, why would you need express services in the centre, the central stations are all important for interchange. Express services might be useful in the suburbs, but most of Shanghai's lines don't appear to be particularly sprawling with loads of quiet stations that wouldn't need every train stopping there.
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