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Old May 24th, 2008, 04:46 PM   #901
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grygry View Post
Express city services are only a must for distances beyond 15km, and Shanghai is pretty compact.
The only real point is the 24hour, which sould be at least 20 hours or so...
Not really. Shanghai is not compact at all. Many lines are well above 30km and the average line for the planned network is 44km long (970km/22 lines). That is precisely why I think not having four track express will cripple the system. Most subway lines in the world are usually on average 25km (i eyeballed the figures). Some, like Paris's metro only has an average of 15km per line.

Besides, what if there needed to be track work or a train becomes disabled for technical reasons or an accident? Two track systems will get crippled because of this since then they must rely on one track for two way services whereas in New York, they just make express trains local or vice versa. Whenever DC metro has track work, it usually delays services over 20 minutes because one train must wait at a station to allow trains in the opposite direction to pass.
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Old May 26th, 2008, 11:13 AM   #902
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One point at which I agree wuth Drunkenmunley888 is that Shanghai metro closes too early. Living there I felt it quite hard as I had to go to the western parts of the city. The same is for buses. Instead, I had to take taxi even at 9. If it is not possible to run 24/24, it is really worth operating at least until midnight or 1 o'clock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking
Most networks manage to run fine without:

24/7 service
express tracks
close together stations
Agree. Just look at Moscow metro. No 24/7 service, no express tracks. But high ouput is assured by high capacity trains (up to 2500 perons per train), excellent frequency (up to 80 seconds) and high speeds and accelerating.

I also think and agree with Grygry that distances over 1 km between stations is an advantage. I had thought before Shanghai that Paris model is ideal with its 500-m distances between but now I don't think so. Paris is Paris. It's compact and stuffed with builfings and narrow streets, so metro with frequent stations is a necessity.
Shanghai is 50 times larger than Paris and such distances will significantly slow down the average speed of trains which is, by the way not very high in Shanghai (in comparison with Moscow, for instance). Moreover, it has got an excellent bus system which, generally, are not stuck in the jams. So, lage distances are not a disadvantage of the system. All they need is to increase the number of lines and which is more important, to create more transfer stations, whereas making these transfers comfortable and not very long.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkenmunkey888
Not really. Shanghai is not compact at all. Many lines are well above 30km and the average line for the planned network is 44km long (970km/22 lines). That is precisely why I think not having four track express will cripple the system. Most subway lines in the world are usually on average 25km (i eyeballed the figures). Some, like Paris's metro only has an average of 15km per line.
Once again, don't take Paris as an example. Trains there are sometimes smaller in capacity than trams in some other citites. Indeed, Paris metro is a light rail.
In Moscow, there are at least 5 lines over 30 km, one is roughly 42 km long, can you imagine short distances at such line? The same relates to Shanghai.
I think, Shanghai metro is optimum for Shanghai, not worth making shorter distances. To fill in gaps, as you sad, they need to develop light rail/fast tram system with these shorter distances. That's all.

And once again. I still believe that two parallel lines (maybe 1 km between them) are much better, than one line with 4 tracks. Line independence is a great advantage.
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Old July 3rd, 2008, 06:20 AM   #903
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SHANGHAI | Public Transport

The old thread is out of date,i think.So let's start a new one.
I have collected a lot of pics of Shanghai Metro from the internet.....


The Shanghai metro is one of the youngest in the world and among the most rapidly expanding. After the first line opened only in 1995 as a north-south axis from the Central Station to the southern suburbs, by April 2010 the network had reached a total length of 420 km, with 268 stations and 12 lines. (Not including the Maglev line...)



Line Terminals Opened Newest Addition Length Stations
1 Fujin Rd - Xinzhuang 1995 2007 36.4 km 28
2 Xujing East - Pudong Intl. Airport 1999 2010 63.8km 29
3 Jiangyang Rd (N) - Shanghai 2000 2006 40.3 km 29
South Railway Station
4 Circle line 2005 2007 33.7 km 26
5 Xinzhuang - Minhang 2003 2003 17.0 km 11
Development Zone
6 Gangcheng Rd - Lingyan Rd (S) 2007 2007 33.1 km 27
7 Shanghai University - Huamu Rd 2009 2009 34.4 km 26
8 Shiguang Rd - Aerospace Museum 2007 2009 37.4 km 28
9 Songjiang Newcity - Yanggao Rd(M) 2007 2010 45.2 km 22
10 New Jiangwan Town - Hangzhong Rd 2010 2010 29.6km 27
11 Jiading North - Jiangsu Road 2009 2009 33.0 km 16
13 Madang Road -Shibo Avenue 2010 2010 4.0km 3
Total: 330 km 221


Average daily ridership : 3.58 million (2009) (Highest: 5.27 million 2009.12.31)

map of 2009
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Old July 3rd, 2008, 06:45 AM   #904
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Line 1

Line 1 Fu Jing Road - Xin Zhuang

38.1 km, 28 stations

10 April 1995: Shanghai Railway Station - Jin Jiang Park (16.1 km, 13 stations)
xx xx 1996: Jin Jiang Park - Xin Zhuang (5.3 km, 3 stations)
28 Dec 2004: Shanghai Railway Station - Gong Fu Xin Cun (12.4 km, 9 stations)
29 Dec 2007: Gong Fu Xin Cun - Fu Jing Road (4.3 km elevated - 3 stations)

old train (six car sets)






new train (eight car sets)




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Old July 3rd, 2008, 06:52 AM   #905
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line 2

line 2 Song Hong Road - Zhang Jiang

26.0 km, 17 stations

28 Oct 1999 - Zhong Shan Park - Long Yang Rd (16.4 km - 12 stations) (regular service since 13 June 2000)
26 Dec 2000 - Long Yang Rd - Zhang Jiang (2.8 km, 0.8km underground)
30 Dec 2006 - Zhong Shan Park - Song Hong Road (6.8 km)

three kinds of trains






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Old July 3rd, 2008, 07:03 AM   #906
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Remember the plan for the metro for 2020?

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Old July 3rd, 2008, 07:04 AM   #907
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line 3 & line 4

line 3
40.3 km, 29 stations (11.9 km and 9 stations shared with Line 4)

26 Dec 2000 - Shanghai South Railway Station - Jiang Wan Town (trial operation: 24.6 km, mostly elevated)
18 Dec 2006 - Jiang Wan Town - North Jiang Yang Road (15.7 km)


line 4 (circle line)
34.2 km, 26 stations (11.9 km and 9 stations shared with Line 3)

31 Dec 2005: Bao Shan Road - Lan Cun Road and Da Mu Qiao Road - Yi Shan Road
29 Dec 2007: Lan Cun Road - Da Mu Qiao Road






















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Old July 3rd, 2008, 07:07 AM   #908
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scion View Post
Remember the plan for the metro for 2020?
that's an old plan,and the new plan has changed a lot.
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Old July 3rd, 2008, 07:17 AM   #909
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line 5 & line 6

line 5
17.2 km, 11 stations

25 Nov 2003: Xin Zhuang - Min Hang Development Zone (all elevated)

line 6
31.5 km, 27 stations (12.1 km above ground)

29 Dec 2007: Gang Cheng Road - South Ling Yan Road





























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Old July 3rd, 2008, 07:25 AM   #910
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line 8

22.6 km, 20 stations (all underground)

29 Dec 2007: Shi Guang Road - Yao Hua Road

The 'Yangpu Line' runs from New Jiangwan City in the north to Zhongshan South Rd via People's Square.



























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Old July 3rd, 2008, 07:38 AM   #911
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line 9

29.1 km, 12 stations (approx. 16 km above ground)

29 Dec 2007: Gui Lin Road - Song Jiang Xin Cheng

Metro Line 9 (Shensong Line) was conceived as a regional express line (R4), to run from Xu Jia Hui on Line 1 towards the southwest to Song Jiang New City, but it has eventually been developed as a full metro line across the city centre. When it opened in Dec 2007, it was not yet connected to any other metro line.It will be connected to line 1,3,4 in the end of 2008.
































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Old July 3rd, 2008, 07:50 AM   #912
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other pics

interchange stations












information board






next train will arrive in 33 seconds!
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Old July 6th, 2008, 12:03 PM   #913
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map of 2010
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Old July 6th, 2008, 12:22 PM   #914
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Great thread, liwentao_tom!

Quote:
Originally Posted by liwentao_tom View Post
that's an old plan,and the new plan has changed a lot.
Is this one updated? If not, could you post an accurate one or explain the changes? I know urbanrail maps are normally very outdated...


Another slighty older yet much clearer version:
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Old July 6th, 2008, 12:31 PM   #915
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
Great thread, liwentao_tom!



Is this one updated? If not, could you post an accurate one or explain the changes? I know urbanrail maps are normally very outdated...
They're new ,but there isn't an official map for 2020.
Maybe line 18+ will change in the future.
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Old July 8th, 2008, 11:00 PM   #916
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I just have some curiosity questions:
Why do they use overhead lines when it's clear that 3rd rail is easier to build and uses less energy and also better for tunnels? Considering that metro is grade separated, there should be NO issues about electrocution. Also, I think that building a metro that large isn't practical. Would it be better if they had 3-4 different systems instead of combining everything into one giant mess? And, I think building lines above ground or elevated is faster and easier than tunneling everything. It's always good to have variety.
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Old July 9th, 2008, 12:00 PM   #917
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_BigGeo View Post
I just have some curiosity questions:
Why do they use overhead lines when it's clear that 3rd rail is easier to build and uses less energy and also better for tunnels? Considering that metro is grade separated, there should be NO issues about electrocution. Also, I think that building a metro that large isn't practical. Would it be better if they had 3-4 different systems instead of combining everything into one giant mess? And, I think building lines above ground or elevated is faster and easier than tunneling everything. It's always good to have variety.
Why isn't it practical? There are many other large systems in the world - it's not like Shanghai is alone with a very large metro system.

As for the above ground/elevated comment - notice the pictures that Tom posted. Parts of the Shanghai metro are elevated. All of Line 3 and 5 are elevated, as well as parts of other lines.

I don't know why Shanghai uses overhead lines, but I think the fact that they use 1500V, higher voltage than most other metro systems, has something to do with it. Why would 3rd rail use less energy, anyway?
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Old July 9th, 2008, 01:14 PM   #918
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Nice! China's infrastructure development is awesome.
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Old July 9th, 2008, 02:45 PM   #919
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Wow. Is that all build only from 1995-now???
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Old July 9th, 2008, 06:49 PM   #920
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Chemist View Post
Why isn't it practical? There are many other large systems in the world - it's not like Shanghai is alone with a very large metro system.
I meant the master plan of 970+ km is too big to be practical. That's actually 2x the London Underground. There's nothing wrong with a large, massive system, but large systems are difficult to maintain. I've taken the NYC subway several times, and found it to be somewhat chaotic w/ a lot of glitches in the way it runs. I mean, if Shanghai needs like 1000km+ of rail, it's better to have 3-4 specialized networks with different kinds of service instead of a giant metro system. This also may lead to efficiency, since when transportation networks compete w/ each other, it leads to better services to attract riders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Chemist View Post
As for the above ground/elevated comment - notice the pictures that Tom posted. Parts of the Shanghai metro are elevated. All of Line 3 and 5 are elevated, as well as parts of other lines.
I don't literally mean that the system is COMPLETELY underground. It's many of the NEW lines have too many km underground. Like Line 8, which is 30+km and completely underground. Or the eastern extension of Line 2, being mostly underground even though the area it passes isn't as dense as downtown. You can tell from pictures of the Maglev, since they're running parallel routes. I think that lines outside the circle (Line 4) should be above ground except for special cases, maybe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Chemist View Post
I don't know why Shanghai uses overhead lines, but I think the fact that they use 1500V, higher voltage than most other metro systems, has something to do with it. Why would 3rd rail use less energy, anyway?
According to Wikipedia, 3rd rail uses 700-750V, and overhead uses 1500V. 3rd rail is less prone to damage and accidents, easier to install and uses less electricity, which may help Shanghai being green a bit. Also, a metro isn't high speed rail, so it doesn't need to travel really fast. 3rd rail is capable of up to 80km/hr, which is adequate for a metro line.
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