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Old July 9th, 2008, 07:03 PM   #921
Scion
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It's worth spending the extra money to put lines underground. Less noise and less visual obstruction for the residents, more open space on surface grounds, allowing climate controlled stations, etc...

It's just a trend to have overhead wires for metros in China. You rarely see electric 3rd rail used in any of China's railways...

And yeah, Shanghai will need to build some express lines, and preferably with a cross-platform styled interchange between the express and metro services (not like the line 1 and line 2 interchange at People's Square!) I mean, imagine someone going from North Jiang Yang Rd to Xin Zhuang...how long would that take??
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Old July 10th, 2008, 02:20 AM   #922
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Yeah I was thinking a few express lines would be useful. Are all the signs in English? What about when buying tickets?
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Old July 10th, 2008, 03:20 AM   #923
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Quote:
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Yeah I was thinking a few express lines would be useful. Are all the signs in English? What about when buying tickets?
FINALLY!! I have been saying that since time immemorial. Four track lines with express trains in the middle and local trains on the outside just like NYC's subway, no?

Shanghai's metro is much too cumbersome and large to run effectively. It wouldve been better had it been broken down ie: 500 km suburban rail, 350 km conventional subway, and 120 km light rail to fill in the gaps. Also comes out to 970 km but would make things far more efficient
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Old July 10th, 2008, 03:57 AM   #924
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I guess you mean something like how Paris splits off its Metro system from its RER. The metro is great for shorter trips, but you wouldn't want to catch it to go across the whole city. Also London does a good job splitting its Underground system from National Rail, which offers suburban services (although the Underground also heads way out of the city in places). Perhaps with passing loops and quadruple tracking in some areas Shanghai might be able to create a system which also runs express trains.
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Old July 10th, 2008, 03:59 AM   #925
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I don't literally mean that the system is COMPLETELY underground. It's many of the NEW lines have too many km underground. Like Line 8, which is 30+km and completely underground. Or the eastern extension of Line 2, being mostly underground even though the area it passes isn't as dense as downtown. You can tell from pictures of the Maglev, since they're running parallel routes. I think that lines outside the circle (Line 4) should be above ground except for special cases, maybe.
Have you actually been to Shanghai? Many of the areas outside the Line 4 Circle Route are FAR too dense to be building above ground. The Line 2 extension to Pudong International Airport passes through some pretty dense areas (the Chuansha district, for example, is very far from the city centre but is certainly dense enough to support underground metro), and is much better suited to being underground. And Line 8 passes right through the city centre, so of course it'll be underground. At the far outskirts of the city, several lines (Line 1, Line 9 in particular) ARE elevated.

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According to Wikipedia, 3rd rail uses 700-750V, and overhead uses 1500V. 3rd rail is less prone to damage and accidents, easier to install and uses less electricity, which may help Shanghai being green a bit. Also, a metro isn't high speed rail, so it doesn't need to travel really fast. 3rd rail is capable of up to 80km/hr, which is adequate for a metro line.
The higher the voltage, the less energy there is lost. Why do you think electricity is transmitted long distances at high voltages? It's because you have less energy loss with high voltage. So I question your claim that running 1500V uses 'more electricity'.
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Old July 10th, 2008, 04:12 AM   #926
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. Are all the signs in English? What about when buying tickets?
All the signage in the Shanghai Metro is both in Chinese and English. Ticket machine users can select either English or Chinese. So it's very easy for somebody that doesn't speak English to use the Metro.
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Old July 10th, 2008, 04:48 AM   #927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jarbury View Post
I guess you mean something like how Paris splits off its Metro system from its RER. The metro is great for shorter trips, but you wouldn't want to catch it to go across the whole city. Also London does a good job splitting its Underground system from National Rail, which offers suburban services (although the Underground also heads way out of the city in places). Perhaps with passing loops and quadruple tracking in some areas Shanghai might be able to create a system which also runs express trains.
yes something along those lines. i was more thinking like nyc or tokyo where you have the central metro/subway in and around the center of the city, supplemented by massive suburban rail like JR lines or LIRR/metro north/NJ Transit and then having the gaps filled in with lighter rail like Staten Island RR/JFK Airtrain/PATH Train/Newark Subway or Tokyo monorail/other Tokyo supplementary transport
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Old July 10th, 2008, 05:08 AM   #928
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I think over time, when people (middle class residents) start to complain about the time-consuming trips over long distances on the metro, Shanghai will then quickly plan and build an express network.
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Old July 10th, 2008, 10:28 AM   #929
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Ive heard the Shanghai metro will become the worlds largest by 2010, with 500km of track. Beijing will pip it a few years later with 560 km, then Guangzhou-Shenzhen (a whopping 2000km by 2018).
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Old July 11th, 2008, 01:59 AM   #930
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Should we count GZ-SZ as a single subway system?
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Old July 11th, 2008, 02:08 AM   #931
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apparently so, theyll be one and the same when finished:

general layout:
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Old July 11th, 2008, 02:13 AM   #932
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Well, that's not subway. It's a commuter high speed system. Anyway both GZ and SZ are planning subway networks well above 400km.
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Old July 11th, 2008, 08:33 AM   #933
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Based on the size of Shanghai, I'd say the city probably needs TWO metro systems (e.g. another overground/elevated metro-like system to complement the current metro) like London or Tokyo PLUS 1000km of regional express aka commuter rail and light rail/trams to fill in the gaps all WITHIN the municipality area. Somehow they'd have to "rail up" about 6000 sq km. If it works in the future, add another Maglev network with several lines with considerable length instead of just one.

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Old July 11th, 2008, 08:56 AM   #934
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Chemist View Post
All the signage in the Shanghai Metro is both in Chinese and English. Ticket machine users can select either English or Chinese. So it's very easy for somebody that doesn't speak English to use the Metro.
You mean for someone who doesn't speak Chinese, right?
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Old July 11th, 2008, 09:09 AM   #935
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Hey you, don't worry, Shanghai is an international city.
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Old July 11th, 2008, 01:08 PM   #936
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You mean for someone who doesn't speak Chinese, right?
I think he means French.
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Old July 12th, 2008, 01:50 PM   #937
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Quote:
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You mean for someone who doesn't speak Chinese, right?
Hehe, yes, that's what I meant. Dunno why I wrote English
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Old July 12th, 2008, 11:22 PM   #938
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which metro station is the oldest one in SH?
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Old July 13th, 2008, 02:49 AM   #939
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Shanghai definitely needs the extra lines - the difference in terms of convenience between hoping on the subway in NYC and finding a metro stop in Shanghai is huge. A big thumbs up for increasing the density of stops.
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Old July 13th, 2008, 06:16 AM   #940
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which metro station is the oldest one in SH?
Jingjiang Park----Xujiahui (line 1),opened in 1993.
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